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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

What to buy Dragon or Helium ?

Im guessing but i think buying a weapon and upgrading to helium from weapon will cost about the same as a buying a helium. Now heliums are not really that available weapon a bit more so. Not sure if weapons are out of backorder yet. scarletsw has a waiting line and also raven.
 
Remember
Weapon is a camera (available for the masses since 2016)
Dragon is a sensor (available for the masses since 2014)
Helium is a sensor (available for the masses in 2017-2018)
Pat
 
From my owner operator point of view who is not rolling in the dosh but happy to spend when necessary. Weapon has never got my attention, a 40,000usd upgrade that is too close to my original camera epic dragon. I think the cf was the only weapon that I was interested in and certainly considered it. So as it stands I could upgrade to cf weapon, then go to the vv or to the helium, alot of links in the chain, a lot of money. In reality the vv is going to be out of my league for some time to come and a lot of money tied up, all of a sudden you would be scared to bring it out because it costs so much. The helium sounds great, although I do like the larger sensor format so it is a bit of a trade off. So thoughts are, sit tight, I have a great camera and when the helium is announced and released I'll sell my existing cam and fork out how ever much to go with the new sensor tec. If it makes sense, interesting times for sure, its worth while to be in the upgrade chain but now the numbers are very large, 10k - 20k is manageable once you go over that its a very big decision for us small guys.

Cheers
Ian
 
Have the Helium specs been announced? Besides the known 8K/S35.
DR? Frame rates? Compression?
 
i have a dragon kit available in the uk for sale , contains pro io module, 3 mounts (including motion mount), 2 sets of primes lenses (one FF, one s35), red 18-50 zoom (close focus), red 300 prime , and a myriad of accessories , evf, 5" touch, media , v-lock batteries (new) etc, ronford baker tripod and legs/ hi- hat..

if anyone is interested, I'm asking £34k
 
My humble 2 cents.
As said above, weapon is a camera, and apparently it allows you two ways in the future for 8k. Helium S35 or Dragon VV. So jumping on a weapon now, does not mean that you can't go for helium later.

One thing to consider for me, is whether you are ready to commit to a 8k workflow every time you shoot. Because S35 8K (29.9mmx15.77mm) means that the helium 6K is less sensor used, and then 4k is a relatively small part of the sensor used. So I see the move to s35 8K as a move to 8k, in general, not much turning back. You are committing to it.
While I feel that the Dragon VV 8k leaves more room for the other resolutions. Basically having a Dragon VV allows you to shoot 6k or 4k just like you do right now with a weapon.
If you think of computer power and lenses/ratios (or crop factors) then you might see an advantage of one vs the other.

These are very useful (thanks Phil):
http://phfx.com/temp/reduser/phfx_REDDSMC2SensorTechnology.jpg
http://phfx.com/tools/redThing_REDD...dFilm/phfx_REDDSMC2_Dragon_FormatsAndFilm.png
 
Alberto Guglielmi said:
So I see the move to s35 8K as a move to 8k, in general, not much turning back. You are committing to it.
Click to expand...

You nailed it Alberto. It's not meant to be for a 4k delivery format. It's looking at next generation : the 8k delivery format, wich I'm not to keen to tackel. But there is an evident push by the industry (NHK) to go there and RED wants to be the king of the party. There is still plenty interest in the 8k VV sensor (for those who wants to shoot 2X ana for a "real" 4k delivery) as the industry don't want to moove this fast in the 8k finishing format, they still are in a 2k delivery world.

But RED develops the new sensor wich will be ready in the near future not for todays necessity.

Now I wonder why they didnt make an REDANNOUNCEMENT?

Either they want to test it thoroughly and take more time to tweak it as they like it?
Arri has a 8k S35mm sensor in the work? (lol just kidding)

Pat

PS: why don't they use s35 4 perf full aperture size for their Helium sensor? 18.6x24.89 would cover all 35mm formats out there.
 
But you can always record prores for dalies and even use just prores with some client jobs that don't require raw. also I see 8K as just buying more minimags and slightly longer transcoding times with 8k. I and many, transcode to 4k anyway and work from there as a starting point. I guess I don't see 8K workflow that much more difficult to handle.
 
Zeb B said:
With 15 or so camera brain models/ variations in play, some with different upgrade paths . . . I'm waiting for the dust to settle before moving chips in. Looking to rent different 8K packages this fall to see what works best. I mean yesterday there was zero 8K Helium's available to rent. Today looks to be 5 or so in the rental fleet. Everything is changing pretty fast which is exciting but also takes a steady hand to know when to pull the trigger on a major purchase.
Click to expand...


Amen Zeb!
 
Brody_B said:
I guess I don't see 8K workflow that much more difficult to handle.
Click to expand...

This is all theoretical, and I don't even know if there is a 6 or 8K DCI standard.

BUT

Basing 8K DCI on 8192x4096, and 6K DCI on 3072x6144, 8K is quite a bit more data:



8K DCI is a bit larger then 33 megapixels (33,554,432 pixels)

6K DCI is jut under 19 megapixels (18,874,368 pixels)

8K DCI is 178% more data to process then 6K DCI (1.7777777x)
 
Akin A said:
Have the Helium specs been announced? Besides the known 8K/S35.
DR? Frame rates? Compression?
Click to expand...


They were up briefly until RED sold out of the limited edition white model.
W/ the exception of sensor size, the specs appear similar if not identical to VV 8K weapon.
From one of Jarred's posts somewhere (facebook?), the normal 8K helium is suggested to be announced and made available in October.

red_wle-specs.jpg
 
Haven't been keeping up with Helium news, so excuse my ignorance here. Is it supposed to be a smaller sized 'dragon' sensor to achieve 8K in S35? Or is it entirely new sensor tech all together? Or don't we know?
 
Daniel Reed said:
They were up briefly until RED sold out of the limited edition white model.
W/ the exception of sensor size, the specs appear similar if not identical to VV 8K weapon.
From one of Jarred's posts somewhere (facebook?), the normal 8K helium is suggested to be announced and made available in October.
...
Click to expand...
Thanks.

Hmm, from those specs, it looks like it's basically Weapon Dragon CF power + 8K and 7K res options.
Same listed DR/Data rate.

I love new tech and I'm a recovering camera addict, lol, but this won't tempt me to come back to the dark side just yet... unless I see some crazy new color science.

Makes me feel like my Epic Dragon still isn't far behind, so I'm good for now.
Taking 8K stills for movie posters, prints, etc. seems awesome though.
 
Apparently they will be shipping Heliums in numbers in October. (They've already proven they can make sensors in numbers, so...) I'd say the quickest route to 8k is Helium. Could be a year's difference.


EDIT: Sorry for straying slightly off topic. Thought I was in another thread when I posted here.
 
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