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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

WHAT?? no viewfinder and lcd at the same time on the Epic?

Ketch:

Forgive my ignorance, but I was planning on getting the smallHD 5.6" HDMI monitor, not the SDI version; what's the main difference?

Also, I'm assuming that I can control the camera menu from the DSMC using the EVF or the redmote?

Thanks.
Marcos


KETCH ROSSi said:
Yes Alberto,

no RED EVF plus RED Touch Screen at the same time, without the I/O module soon to come.

We use the SmallHD when using the EVF, so that the Focus Puller can view it, attached to the HD-SDI offers a very sharp and detail image,
in fact I must say that it is easier to Focus on the SmallHD 5.6" then on the RED Touch Screen.
Click to expand...
 
We use the SmallHD when using the EVF, so that the Focus Puller can view it, attached to the HD-SDI offers a very sharp and detail image,
in fact I must say that it is easier to Focus on the SmallHD 5.6" then on the RED Touch Screen.
Click to expand...

you guys seem not to understand.

on the old Red lcd (compatible to Epic/Scarlet) you can focus in 3 seconds with 100% accuracy with the supernaturally important MAGNIFY feature.
M A G N I F Y YYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY

no other external SDI or HDMI or else monitor can crop a 2:1 DIRECTLY FORM THE SENSOR, CAN YOU UNDERSTAND THIS VERY SIMPLE FACT? AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA

Here i'm not even talking about focus pulling, i'm talking about defining a fucking point on the follow focus white drawing surface. I'm talking about defining at wich angle a point on the follow focus will make a subject sharp, direcly from the source, from the light the goes to the sensor, i'm not talking about olympic focus pulling performances, i'm talking about, first of all, KNOWING with the utmost certainty at which angle the focus is right. ONLY a crop from the sensor can give you this certainty.

I've no doubt a 5.6" is easier than a 5". Why are these devices so humble by the way?
mobile phones almost have bigger displays. Is making a movie a job less deserving of displays of decent sizes than making a phone call?
this is upside down, needs to changed, people don't want displays so tiny, I'll become blind if I stare at a 5" lcd all the time.
 
in a simple line: BEFORE focus pulling while filming, the focus puller must SIGN THE FOCUS points on the follow focus, right?
this is why a direct crop from the sensor is needed. For a true focus, instead of a guess focus.

and this is why a smart Red lcd is needed. (not a 720p or 1080p, which will never give you sharpness of a detail ina 4k context. A crop of sensor is the only true resolution)
you cannot magnify again what is already reduced and magnified, it would be worthless, you'll never know where the thing is in focus.

and this is why TWO red lcd/viefinder connectors are needed, just as like what the trusty Red One offers. It works perfectly on the Red One. It's such a precise and quick method. It's direct.

otherwise the operator will need to be given the SmallHD, and could not use the viewfinder, so the focus puller can have the Red's smart lcd and sign the focus without making dangerous mistakes.

I'd like to know more about this in/out module. Only a simple and effective design of this can be the solution.
It may be the solution.
 
Seems to work for Jackson on the hobbit! Can't you make it work until the module is ready? It strikes me that what RED have done is provide a camera years ahead of its time in a form factor that is also ahead of its time...and all some people can do is pick up on the parts that aren't yet fully operational. I want it all NOW, NOW NOW...patiance is a virtue ;)
 
Alberto Caprioglio said:
in a simple line: BEFORE focus pulling while filming, the focus puller must SIGN THE FOCUS points on the follow focus, right?
this is why a direct crop from the sensor is needed. For a true focus, instead of a guess focus.
Click to expand...

Well think about how it was done prior to digital cameras (on film). No monitors there. Get out a tape measure, measure your focus points, and mark. I know not really possible in documentary settings, but if you're shooting pre-planned footage, there's your answer.
 
Alberto Caprioglio said:
in a simple line: BEFORE focus pulling while filming, the focus puller must SIGN THE FOCUS points on the follow focus, right?
this is why a direct crop from the sensor is needed. For a true focus, instead of a guess focus.
Click to expand...

As a focus puller myself, I can honestly say that if you rely solely on ANY monitor for focus you are developing a bad habit. I see guys who have come up pulling off the monitor and I have to say that it seems like 2/3 of them are always late on their cues. Watching TV instead of watching what is in front of you!

Tape measures, marks, cinetapes, snipers, distos - and ask the operator for eye focus marks. There are so many tools at your disposal and you need to be able to use them all.

C'mon we did this for years before digital went an made us lazy - get your marks, watch the talent and refer to the monitor as a reference only.

It would be a nice luxury to have dual output for the Red LCD and Bomb, but it isn't that big of a deal really. Patience - its coming.
 
I'm no engineer, but is it not possible to create some sort of adapter to plug the red LCD into the HDSDI?

just curious..
 
Hey, calm down man,

You're the one not understanding, magnifiy also works on the HD-SDI out, it is the camera doing the cropping and image output, it can do it to a Red Evf or LCD or/and to an HD-SDI output.

About monitor size, hey if 5 or 5'6 is to small get a 8'9 or more, there all the flavor of sizes your heart desires our there, get what suits your needs.

On a side note, at the present time, the HDMI is not functional at the same time as the EVF/LCD output, only the HD-SDI works at the same time, so you need an HD-SDI monitor!

Cheers,
Damien

Alberto Caprioglio said:
you guys seem not to understand.

on the old Red lcd (compatible to Epic/Scarlet) you can focus in 3 seconds with 100% accuracy with the supernaturally important MAGNIFY feature.
M A G N I F Y YYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY

no other external SDI or HDMI or else monitor can crop a 2:1 DIRECTLY FORM THE SENSOR, CAN YOU UNDERSTAND THIS VERY SIMPLE FACT? AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA

Here i'm not even talking about focus pulling, i'm talking about defining a fucking point on the follow focus white drawing surface. I'm talking about defining at wich angle a point on the follow focus will make a subject sharp, direcly from the source, from the light the goes to the sensor, i'm not talking about olympic focus pulling performances, i'm talking about, first of all, KNOWING with the utmost certainty at which angle the focus is right. ONLY a crop from the sensor can give you this certainty.

I've no doubt a 5.6" is easier than a 5". Why are these devices so humble by the way?
mobile phones almost have bigger displays. Is making a movie a job less deserving of displays of decent sizes than making a phone call?
this is upside down, needs to changed, people don't want displays so tiny, I'll become blind if I stare at a 5" lcd all the time.
Click to expand...
 
Or perhaps not. Can you guys who already received your Epics tell me if the camera sends to the SDI output the same magnified image that you see on the Red viewfinder/lcd when you magnify?

if it is, than the only unconvenience will be having 2 cables - one for signal and one for power - instead of one. Or two types of batteries instead of one. No, wait: they may well be 3 types of batteries for a lot of people:

Red brick batteries
REd Epic batteries
SmallHD batteries

Not ideal, eh?
 
Get a Panasonic BT-LH910 and some Anton Bauers and you're done. I've frequently used this combination on my RED One even though I can have a Bomb and RED Monitor running at the same time just because it's a larger picture and easier for the Director/DP to see. Turn that off to the side and they'll stop crowding you out of your spot :)
 
Tim Sutherland said:
Also, most of the AC's I work with still use tape measure and marks, but they usually draw on the lens barrel with a grease pencil instead of using the marking disc on the follow focus.

Tim
Click to expand...

Don't forget the chart tape. Much nicer than marking directly on the barrel.
 
Im really looking forward to the Module as well.. hopefully it handles at least 2 ports for the view finder and lcd.. the current position for the LCD/EVF port is pretty ridiculous.. right in the way of the lens mount..
 
Neil Horner said:
Seems to work for Jackson on the hobbit! Can't you make it work until the module is ready? It strikes me that what RED have done is provide a camera years ahead of its time in a form factor that is also ahead of its time...and all some people can do is pick up on the parts that aren't yet fully operational. I want it all NOW, NOW NOW...patiance is a virtue ;)
Click to expand...

I mean... people pick up on it, because its a super vital feature for a professional camera.. obviously people want it now now now.. threads like this aren't meant to harp on RED.. but instead say "HEY.. WERE STILL HERE.. and THIS IS WHAT WE NEED ASAP" lighting a little fire under RED.. I'm sure they appreciate the pressure as it keeps them moving and excited to get things out the door..

also saying seems to work for so and so... doesn't work..

Jackson is probably sitting out there with fully featured camera rigs including a Pro IO..

but even if he isn't.. of course he's making it work.. just like everyone has been.. but things could be much easier

thats all
 
Alberto Caprioglio said:
you guys seem not to understand.

on the old Red lcd (compatible to Epic/Scarlet) you can focus in 3 seconds with 100% accuracy with the supernaturally important MAGNIFY feature.
M A G N I F Y YYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY

no other external SDI or HDMI or else monitor can crop a 2:1 DIRECTLY FORM THE SENSOR, CAN YOU UNDERSTAND THIS VERY SIMPLE FACT? AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA

Here i'm not even talking about focus pulling, i'm talking about defining a fucking point on the follow focus white drawing surface. I'm talking about defining at wich angle a point on the follow focus will make a subject sharp, direcly from the source, from the light the goes to the sensor, i'm not talking about olympic focus pulling performances, i'm talking about, first of all, KNOWING with the utmost certainty at which angle the focus is right. ONLY a crop from the sensor can give you this certainty.

I've no doubt a 5.6" is easier than a 5". Why are these devices so humble by the way?
mobile phones almost have bigger displays. Is making a movie a job less deserving of displays of decent sizes than making a phone call?
this is upside down, needs to changed, people don't want displays so tiny, I'll become blind if I stare at a 5" lcd all the time.
Click to expand...


They have meds for this.
 
Quote Originally Posted by Alberto Caprioglio View Post
you guys seem not to understand.

on the old Red lcd (compatible to Epic/Scarlet) you can focus in 3 seconds with 100% accuracy with the supernaturally important MAGNIFY feature.
M A G N I F Y YYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY YYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY

no other external SDI or HDMI or else monitor can crop a 2:1 DIRECTLY FORM THE SENSOR, CAN YOU UNDERSTAND THIS VERY SIMPLE FACT? AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAA

Here i'm not even talking about focus pulling, i'm talking about defining a fucking point on the follow focus white drawing surface. I'm talking about defining at wich angle a point on the follow focus will make a subject sharp, direcly from the source, from the light the goes to the sensor, i'm not talking about olympic focus pulling performances, i'm talking about, first of all, KNOWING with the utmost certainty at which angle the focus is right. ONLY a crop from the sensor can give you this certainty.

I've no doubt a 5.6" is easier than a 5". Why are these devices so humble by the way?
mobile phones almost have bigger displays. Is making a movie a job less deserving of displays of decent sizes than making a phone call?
this is upside down, needs to changed, people don't want displays so tiny, I'll become blind if I stare at a 5" lcd all the time.
Click to expand...

They have meds for this.
Click to expand...

hahaha, yes I hope! If i'm going to spend lots of money, give me the cure all included
 
I mean... people pick up on it, because its a super vital feature for a professional camera.. obviously people want it now now now.. threads like this aren't meant to harp on RED.. but instead say "HEY.. WERE STILL HERE.. and THIS IS WHAT WE NEED ASAP" lighting a little fire under RED.. I'm sure they appreciate the pressure as it keeps them moving and excited to get things out the door..

also saying seems to work for so and so... doesn't work..

Jackson is probably sitting out there with fully featured camera rigs including a Pro IO..

but even if he isn't.. of course he's making it work.. just like everyone has been.. but things could be much easier

thats all
Click to expand...

Absolutely.
well said, Zakaree.
This is what we want. A solution that is a TRUE AND BEST solution and not just a cheap (let alone very uncheap) workaround.
Because WE pay.

seems to work for so and so...
Click to expand...
puhhhh! not enough, thanks.
 
formatting the ssd drive without the LCD is a pain in the ass.
and i'd like to see some controlls for the EVF too.

so my wishlist :)
1. easier formatting ways without the LCD including naming of ssd's
2. opengate and hertz choice etc plus turning on the heater on the Bomb
3. way to make the LCD tight again. (gets loose after a couple of months)

this are just ideas how to improve products and make them better :)
 
I agree it would be nice to be able to have both the Red LCD and the Red EVF, but I really think some people here are kicking up a storm in a tea cup. We have live HD-SDI out at the same time as EVF, this is full 1080P AND will, I have checked, show you the zoom in mode when activated on the camera. You can buy a wide variety of LCDs for cheaper than the Red LCD. The one I'm looking at right now is the new 7" TVlogic LVM-074W, which offers 1024x600 pixels and full size waveform in overlay (I love that), the only problem I see right now is powering the said LCD, but if you're in a config with both an EVF and a LCD you should have the means to power the LCD.

Cheers,
Damien
 
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