Welcome to our community

Be a part of something great, join today!

Register Log in
  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

What is '6K Dragon footage smooth workflow'

I

Iskandar Abdullayev

Active member
Joined
Jan 18, 2014
Messages
26
Reaction score
0
Points
0
Dear Dragon users,
As I understand, one of the main bumps in Dragon acceptance by clients is a horrendous hardware requirements to store and grade 6K footage. What workflow would you recommend to ease clients? To tell them: "Look, do not worry about the workflow, it is smooth as butter, I've got this."
I have the following hardware in mind:


Hardware: Apple 'Trash can' Mac Pro Quad-Core Intel Xeon E5 3.7GHz, 12GB RAM, 256GB PCIe-based flash storage, Dual AMD FirePro D300
2x 512 Gb RED SSDs
Monitor : Calibrated ASUS PQ321Q 4K monitor
Soft and control panel: Davinci Resolve Colorist control Surface.

Is it enough?
Thank you for your help, I am trying to figure it out.
 
That demo video is HD time line. Why shoot a 6k file for a HD project ? Blur is easy for graphics cards. Who blurs their footage anyways ?
Try a UHD timeline and do a stabilize on a shot, or a noise reducer. Now you stat to choke.
 
Yes, maxed out Mac Pro gave like 4-5 FPS on 6K Dragon footage. You are saying that in real life it's even worst. So I will need a RED Rocket X card... But it won't fit into a new Mac Pro! Maybe if you bend it, but I doubt it would help... ;)
 
Sorry, it was a mistake. I will move your post here, if you don't mind... Thanks a lot for the detailed answer.

Blair S. Paulsen:
"First off, good old uncompressed HD video is (depending on format/bit depth) roughly 200MB/s which is on par with R3D data rates, even 6K Dragon at typical compression ratios, so there isn't some new horrendous storage requirement vs existing formats.

Secondly, if you mean an initial one-light (dailies) grade of the R3Ds you are typically monitoring a 1/4 res and should see little difference in responsiveness vs current files.

Transcoding to baked files is different matter. If your clients require baked DNxHD or ProRes for creative editorial then more computational muscle would be indicated - but if you create the RGB files for editorial for them, that's not their problem - ProRes 1080 is ProRes 1080.

In terms of hardware for you to turn around editorial files for them in a similar time frame to 5K MX material a new MacPro or other recent vintage computer is what you'll want. IMO, your suggested config for a nMP is too weak. Anyone who works in motion imaging at a professional level should get the D700 GPUs, forget the D300s and D500s. 12GB of RAM is a joke, anything less than 32 is like tying one hand behind your back. BTW, there is a great deal more up to date info on other threads you might want to peruse before spending $5K+ on a new computer.

Cheers - #19"

 
Last edited:
Optimization factor

Optimization factor

The new MacPros, Mavericks compliant GPU drivers and the Dragon decoding routines are still in their early days. I expect a "maxed out" nMP to be able to transcode 6K Dragon footy in real time within a year, just not out of the gate. RedRocket-X, especially once its running closer to capacity, should be a great option - but as of today its still on backorder and, best guess, only able to achieve 25% of its potential so far.

As of today, Dragon projects will present some challenges for turning around a lot of footy into baked editorial or deliverable files quickly - but the situation should improve rapidly in the next 60 days. Here are my predictions, you can make fun of them in a couple months if I'm way off:

By May 2104 I expect:

1) nMP cylinders with D700's, 64GB RAM, 8 core CPU and fast storage - will be able to process 6K Dragon footage out to common formats at 12fps or better. Essentially 2X RT for 24fps projects, with smooth 1/2 res playback.

2) RedRocket-X (properly hosted) will be able to playback/transcode at full decode in real time or better any flavor of R3Ds including 6K FF Dragon files at any compression ratio.

Cheers - #19
 
i cannot say i fnd dragon much more difficult than epic. pitty new olpf doesn't play with resolve yet, but it will come.

6k 2:1 @ 13:1 compression played realtime @ ibc.

there are good things in store
 
Gunleik Groven said:
i cannot say i fnd dragon much more difficult than epic. pitty new olpf doesn't play with resolve yet, but it will come.
Click to expand...
How does an optical low-pass filter have a problem in Resolve? As far as I know, this just cured a highlight problem, didn't it? If there is a compatibility problem with Resolve, it's the current lack of the Dragon color science SDK, which I'm told is being worked on.
 
In Premiere Pro and DaVinci and many other softs you can play Dragon footage in real time at 1/4 res which is fine for working.

if you must use Avid then you can use 1/4 res proxies which render in real time.

No Rocket needed.
 
as much as it pains me to admit it, windows is a better place to put that rocket x card for now... why apple would kill the pci slot is beyond me,...but you all already know how bummed i was on it, and i wont rehash it...

but in all seriousness i been considering getting some servers from my buddy. might start a lil digital farming op at my small studio apartment...there fully loaded with very small ssds too... so they will be snappy as heck....

im considering a rmbp but what hope does it have for resolve? i wonder if apple got new products there site was down last night
 
With the tests I did 3 days ago... I'm not worried about it at all.
1/2 res R3D was fine... :) ... touch jerky on scrubbing... smoothon on playback.
Proxie editing was faster obviously.
Optimised 5k, 4k, 2k, media (transcoded to REDLOG FILM) was amazing. (and able to go back to raw at any time for fine tunes)

5k exports were 3 to 1 in ender time,.. 4k, was 2-1 in render time.. Which I can live with. Time to go to the loo.

And all that was on a little 6 core, with min RAM..

Oh.. 4 BAY raid minimiun. 8 bay was better.

Fear not.


My only problem is... My laptop hotel workflow is still needed. Looks like Ill have to drag around a TUBE. :)
 
Hi Mark & Robert,

What are your computer specs to be able to get that workflow?
Are you both working with the new Mac Pro's? I'm considering getting one, don't have a huge budget but I'd like to know what would be minimum spec so I could edit in 1/4 res.

Thanks!
 
As per Jarred's post number 77 in the thread link here

But I think he was talking optimal for the near term.
 
Marc Wielage said:
How does an optical low-pass filter have a problem in Resolve? As far as I know, this just cured a highlight problem, didn't it? If there is a compatibility problem with Resolve, it's the current lack of the Dragon color science SDK, which I'm told is being worked on.
Click to expand...

agreed if the filter was "all"
it is not and currently "new olpf" files only work in rcx, if i have understood this right.

new sensor. calibration is part of the upgrade...
 
Dragon workflow

Dragon workflow

Dragon users, please describe your typical workflow. How do you handle dailies?
 
do you have a rocket x as well? that coupled with software that can understand the sdk of the camera build/rocket is basically all one needs. personally i'd use redcine, but if you need other software then this has to be handled on a case by case basis, and in most cases won't work yet and needs redcine.

so start with getting a system together with redcine, rocket x (or very high end gpu in place of rocket) and go set up your output settings in the export tab according to what they want for dailies/proxies/playback *sometimes multiple things. then set up your looks on a case by case basis, or maybe lighting doesn't change and just one basic LUT, also case by case basis? hit export using the encoding settings you saved and boom you got dailies in say prores or dnxhd. this works for basic one lights.

if you need more then basic one lights, then you have to make sure the apps will work with dragon and that build naively. if it won't, then bake into prores and proceed into the non dragon working apps? depends the pipeline to a large extent and how basic or complex the dailies are. some people just set the camera forget it and want me to bake it looking off, then reconform later when colors matter to them when its cut. others want every scene or shot really touched up on the set. it really depends a on a lot of factors i think and affects the costs of how good a rig you need, whether your doing media managing or extensive first lights, etc. are they ever going back to the raws or are these just for playback and proxy editing and a reconform later? theres a million workflows for any size production, and i have seen it all done at various levels so its tough to just say it in black and white terms ya know? the real thing with dragon is its not as widely compatible yet app wise as say epic, which works natively in almost anything. so that is basically the only thing to really account for, is whether the sdk for dragon is accounted for, and the fact dragon builds will continue to pour out i am sure, so then it just compounds the fact one must check
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top