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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

What does this mean?

Gregory Leno said:
John DeLorean didn't sell his former company for over $2 billion.

G
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John DeLorean's former company was Chevrolet. And before that Pontiac. And prior to that Packard. Financial trouble can visit anyone and any company. Ask Saab. Or Panasonic, with its $4.2 billion loss that's being projected for the coming quarter.

I wish Red the best and hope there's a Scarlet for me to buy at the end of the year, but none of this looks very promising. Especially after that schizophrenic series of announcements that each superseded each other concerning what the Red and Epic actually were going to be. Which still isn't completely clear. When Red decided to skip NAB it seemed a little odd. Now not so much. It will be a tragedy if they aren't able to see this through, though.
 
Wow. If anything this discussion has proven that there's a lot of talkers out there. You mean well about EPIC but you won't really be stepping up to the plate. Jim Jannard is totally fair in cutting back overtime R & D when most of you guys are just excited bloggers and not real buyers. I'll be disappointed if I don't see EPIC this year.
 
Redolutionary said:
i don't own one either, i work day and night writing stories worth shooting and then i find ways to afford the rental, one of which is working in other departments and trading other skills for credit with owners and rental houses.

Luck is what you make of it. Me I make shit happen! So can you.
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Of course I can. I make TV Commercials that are broadcasted all over the world, with an HVX.What I meant with the racing analogy is simple. You just can't do straights with this gear. Let me explain.

I have very small budgets for my productions. You might ask why if I'm doing Internationaly broadcasted promotions. The only way I can answer this is because I live in a place where Audiovisual culture is bellow kindergarden level- they know what a quality commercial is, but they thing everything is easy, like taking a picture with their point and shoot- they think everyone can do it, and they charge you like that. Also, the Audiovisual market is poor. There are no rental companies with HD gear (excluding of course the Z1, the camera everyone owns). Wethever high end gear I have to rent has to come from Hong-Kong, which basically is another "country" in the same country- different law, different rules. So Insurance is as of an International rental- no go. Add to that, people over here don't know anything about HD, HDV, about tapeless workflows, anything. So in order to have a team, I have to pratically "teach" a class on modern day shooting. What I make for a living as a producer for a big local company makes do for my living, and I can actually save some money and have credit for a Scarlet 7000 USD with a nice set of lens- I imagine 12k to have a fully operable S35 Scarlet. But there's no way I could get a Red One for 25K.

I've just finished a short film, which I've sent to film festivals (here's hoping for a festival to accept it). It was 90% shot at night, NO ADAPTER. Why? Light loss, setup time, form factor, near impossible handheld. I was shooting guerrila, and the HVX ISO was just not enough for many scenes. I worked around this limitation, but the thing is, I would have been able to shoot a much nicer film with the RED. First, low light. Then, Interchangeable 35mm lens. I wanted to use a standard narrative approach=- tripod shots, with nice composition. You know what normally happens when you have a "prosumer" camera in the situations I was in? You end up shooting "Dogma" style- because it forgivess many things and shifts all the weight to the actors. But I want to do Cinema. In fact, I want to revolutionise local cinema and show people that its all about the talent, that we can make a commercialy appealing film that will stand up to a film screen. I want to be able to shoot this city as beautifull as I can, and I want to do Cinematography. Have you guys noticed how many Indie films are "dogma" style? And you know why? Because that's taking the "Hillside with many turns" route. A circuit with straights is taking the championship route- the one where cinematography, lens usage, artistic lighting, framing is used without restraints. Does this make sense?

I have nothing against "Dogma" or "Cinema Verité" films. I love Von Trier, and I admire films like "Once". But I want to be able to make the choice of how I shoot my film and the language I want to use, with no constraints because of camera limitation.

Red Scarlet seemed like it- the no compromise solution for me- Not because of 5k, but because of form factor, low light capabilities, dinamic range and interchangeable lenses. I want to start a local filmmaking revolution, and I need the Scarlet Revolution to do that. Does this make sense?

EDIT- I guess I'm upset because I will have to go HVX again for my next indie. I love the camera, mind you- The best handheld to shoot sports there is- just that, again, I'll have to compromise and work everything around its limitations...
 
RRJackson said:
John DeLorean's former company was Chevrolet. And before that Pontiac. And prior to that Packard. Financial trouble can visit anyone and any company. Ask Saab.Or Panasonic, with its $4.2 billion loss that's being projected for the coming quarter.
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I know where John Delorean came from.
Using the Auto industry, and Delorean in particular, as a example of how Mr. Jannard is running his company and the risks he is up against, seems unfair.

Having said that, your are right, financial trouble can visit anyone. It just appears that RED is positioned better than most to ride out the storm.
Jim being prudent and smart in how RED moves forward should be reassuring.


I wish Red the best and hope there's a Scarlet for me to buy at the end of the year, but none of this looks very promising. Especially after that schizophrenic series of announcements that each superseded each other concerning what the Red and Epic actually were going to be. Which still isn't completely clear. When Red decided to skip NAB it seemed a little odd. Now not so much.
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Welcome to the bleeding edge.
Yeah it is rather drama filled, but RED's ability to change course quickly is another reason they have a better chance of success.



Greg
 
Gregory Leno said:
I know where John Delorean came from.
Using the Auto industry, and Delorean in particular, as a example of how Mr. Jannard is running his company and the risks he is up against, seems unfair.
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It wasn't a reference to how he was running the company, it just reminded me of some of the last-minute announcements that there were going to be production delays followed by a prolonged silence and eventually asset liquidation. John DeLorean was talking about new models and higher performance powertrains and suspension components right up until the company collapsed.
 
On the positive side, this announcement will increase the used market value of R1s with early serial numbers should any early adopters be forced to sell theirs. By reducing or delaying supply, this will increase demand for Epic and lower R1 serial numbers.

-shooter
 
Bing Bailey said:
jim jannard is no john deloreon , so thats a pretty shitty comment
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Depends on your opinion of John DeLorean. I hold him in fairly high regard. He was a little too much of a rock star, even back in the 60's when he brought the GTO to the marketplace, but he accomplished a lot during his life and he pretty much never gave in or gave up. A lot like Jim Jannard.
 
I believe Jim's statement is right on for the reality we are living in.

In reality, if Red would have waiting years to launch any follow-up to the Red One, I believe the cinematic community would still view them as revolutionary geniuses.

I am one of the people holding off until scarlet, due to the cost factor, and if it takes a few years to get my hands on one, well, so be it. Red has been driving ahead at quite an alarming speed in innovation and I think we are all trying to play our cards right and cautiously.
 
You are right Jim in many ways. But people to understand that Red also needs to be a commercial viablity for R&D and Red is not just rebel digital cinema camera. It would be better if you can deliver Scarlet alone to have a mark on peoples domain with more cameras to sell and generate revenue and invest on R&D for Epic and other products.

Not every Tom, Dick and Harry is going to purchase Red One or Epic, whereas there are millions of people who purchase still cameras and Scarlet will be a better bet in terms of revenue generation for Red.
 
Bing Bailey said:
is it possible camera sales are down because people where holding back to buy an epic or scarlet. this is unfortunate
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EXACTLY!

Bummer. When we think it will be early '09 it turns into Fall '09, and then maybe early '10 now? I guess I really need to get it in my head that when delivery dates will change, they will keep changing.

Thanks Red, I will wait yet some more.

Wish I had a Red One and trying to wait patiently,
Joseph
;)
 
I might not post here much (or at all, really), but I've followed the development of RED since it was just a mysterious splashpage on RED.com.

As much as I'm looking forward to getting my hands on SCARLET, this is probably for the better. Rushing into a market with less demand is going to do nothing but hurt. As much as I'd like to say I'd be ready to drop 3k+ on a new camera by summer, I know I won't be able to. The massive technology company I work for, which I shall not name, has cut my hours insanely (due to said crisis, I imagine) so it's not like I'd be in any position to buy, as most people I imagine are not.

Keep going, Jim, at whatever speed you and the folks at RED see fit.
 
Neil Tucker said:
I've got your Scarlet deposit right here!
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Sounds like a good idea for a poll. To see who would gladly deposit money on which product, and how many. That way they'd know exactly what we'd want, and a rudimentary number. That and i'm curious how far down the list i'm going to be waiting for a cam when they come up for sale.

But since they said a 2-month delay, i'll still wait. Just a shame i'll lose 2 months of toying around with a fixed-lens scarlet to make sure renting an R1 feels right for what i want to do.

-Brian
 
COOL, as I am still excited to own my first RED ONE with some tasty 35MM primes... .

Does the Red Crew also think this is a good time for R&D and focus more on improving Redcine and Redcode raw? Not that it isnt good, just meant taking it out of beta. (per the boards)

Its good stuff for sure, but we all know software needs to constantly evolve from the post-community feedback

When Epic and Scarlett DO rock the market, the workflow is that much stronger.

The RED ONE is a killer camera...I have seen its might up close and personal...

when we hit 1000 feature length movies shot on RED... then I think its time for a new camera.
 
Jim that totally Sucks!

I wanted to see your guys slaving away, sweating in the desert heat being whipped by Oompa Loompahs (Willy Wonka's little workers) so you could stand on a perch high above and look out over your vast factory of wretchedly miserble workers and hysterically giggle at your new diabolical scam to make Maddoff & his like look like a bunch of chumps. That is what I was eagerly looking forward to. But nooooo, now you're going to be like Scrooge ( the traitor) and give Bob Cratchet & Tiny Tim the village's biggest turkey? Where is that Mean Red streak in you? What's this world coming to. :)
 
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