Welcome to our community

Be a part of something great, join today!

Log in
  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

What does dragon sensor mean for Scarlet?

Björn Benckert said:
I think if scarlet dragon upgrade is even close to epic dragon upgrade in price.... then there would be a huge amount of epics for sale and orders for scarlets... I think the whole idea is that RED lets you buy a scarlet and let it work and make it's money, if you do it well and right you probably made enough to take the upgrade cost that is equal to the difference between a epic dragon and a scarlet 4k. I think you are hoping for to much if you think you add 6-9k USD to your scarlets and get a camera equal to epic dragon... that would in many ways be like cutting of the customers willing to pay the higher price. I think RED are vice not to do such thing. Just seeing how the epic M program works with free upgrades and such.
Click to expand...

I hope you are right. I also hope that Ana-mode is not enabled on Scarlets...
 
Yeah I don't imagine anyone would be crazy enough to think that Bjorn. Correct me if I'm wrong anyone, but I'm presuming everyone's logically thinking Scarlet Dragon upgrade would make it more powerful than a current scarlet, but will still fall considerably short of EPic's specs, let alone Epic Dragon. No way RED would do this.

I'm staring to think that a scarlet "Dragon" update might possibly need to be quite a different endeavour than perhaps first envisioned.
RED had stated that the amount of work and cost in replacing boards or what have you would push costs considerably above epic, and it will be hard to make sense of the price point when you still obviously as Bjorn states still need to be differentiating considerably with your epics.
 
Björn Benckert said:
I think if scarlet dragon upgrade is even close to epic dragon upgrade in price.... then there would be a huge amount of epics for sale and orders for scarlets... I think the whole idea is that RED lets you buy a scarlet and let it work and make it's money, if you do it well and right you probably made enough to take the upgrade cost that is equal to the difference between a epic dragon and a scarlet 4k. I think you are hoping for to much if you think you add 6-9k USD to your scarlets and get a camera equal to epic dragon... that would in many ways be like cutting of the customers willing to pay the higher price. I think RED are vice not to do such thing. Just seeing how the epic M program works with free upgrades and such.
Click to expand...

Who is asking for it to be equal to an Epic Dragon? If I'm going to pay to end up paying 50%+ the amount of an Epic brain than I would expect to get at least half the power of the Epic. but all I'd really love is 5k @30, 4k 60, 3k 120, 2k 120+ (this is FAR less than half the power of the current Epic)

-Dane
 
All I want is more dynamic range and real usable one. I'm cool with the way the Scarlet is right now. Of course if they do 5K 24 that would an be awesome addition..
 
Dane Henry said:
Who is asking for it to be equal to an Epic Dragon? If I'm going to pay to end up paying 50%+ the amount of an Epic brain than I would expect to get at least half the power of the Epic. but all I'd really love is 5k @30, 4k 60, 3k 120, 2k 120+ (this is FAR less than half the power of the current Epic)

-Dane
Click to expand...

+1!
 
Björn Benckert said:
I think if scarlet dragon upgrade is even close to epic dragon upgrade in price.... then there would be a huge amount of epics for sale and orders for scarlets... I think the whole idea is that RED lets you buy a scarlet and let it work and make it's money, if you do it well and right you probably made enough to take the upgrade cost that is equal to the difference between a epic dragon and a scarlet 4k. I think you are hoping for to much if you think you add 6-9k USD to your scarlets and get a camera equal to epic dragon... that would in many ways be like cutting of the customers willing to pay the higher price. I think RED are vice not to do such thing. Just seeing how the epic M program works with free upgrades and such.
Click to expand...

Björn, I'm certain there will be a Dragon-Scarlet. It will never become an EPIC though.
It will share the same image quality as in DR and pixel and sensor and what not. Just like the EPIC/SCARLET relationship is now.
It will just not have the same data-rate capabilities. It might gain a step or two in speed from where it is now with maybe 5K@24fps or something similar.

But it will never be EPIC (higher REDCODE (as in better ;)) / higher FPS)

The upgrade route for SCARLET is questionable with the 6 GRANDupgrade price for EPIC ... where does that leave room for a SCARLET upgrade to make sense? The SCARLET upgrade was said to be more expensive. So lets say they get it done with 8 GRAND... That would only make sense if the SCARLET-DRAGON would cost new around 14000-16000 body only. Than it would still be a lot cheaper than buying a new body.
 
Dane Henry said:
Who is asking for it to be equal to an Epic Dragon? If I'm going to pay to end up paying 50%+ the amount of an Epic brain than I would expect to get at least half the power of the Epic. but all I'd really love is 5k @30, 4k 60, 3k 120, 2k 120+ (this is FAR less than half the power of the current Epic)

-Dane
Click to expand...

There we go. That's what I believe. And that's what to me makes the most sense.
 
I'm hoping, and maybe hoping too much, that we get the ability to shoot the full 6k sensor at 30fps. The one thing that gets me about the Scarlet is that there's a sensor in there that I'm not using a good portion of. If we do get "capped" at 5k I'm hoping for 60 to 72fps. That should also give us nice 4k fps options as well.

Whatever transpires in the future for Scarlet it will need to be competitive compared to what other 4k cameras that are coming out and will be coming out. If the price for camera X is less than Scarlet + Dragon and say it it shoots 120fps or higher at 4K it will start effecting sales and buying decisions. That keeps it out of the current Epic specs and ahead of damn near anything that will be coming.

Nobody but Red knows anything for sure, but what we know is a minimum of $6k and likely up to $10k for the Scarlet Dragon Upgrade program. Which doesn't happen until the earliest January 2013 with what we know "today". I'm optimistic that Red wants to stay way ahead of the game with both Epic and Scarlet with Dragon.

There are several "pro" 4k cameras in the works at the moment ranging wildly in price and feature sets. Cameras supporting burst frame rates are going to be coming in droves by next year. Next year we will see the first real price war on equipment that shoots 4k plus.

The other bodies will be weighed against Red's gear by the Scarlet + Dragon + (likely) Pro I/O module + battery option. Red knows this. It's also clear to see what is available today at $15k and $25k.
 
Phil Holland said:
I'm hoping, and maybe hoping too much, that we get the ability to shoot the full 6k sensor at 30fps. The one thing that gets me about the Scarlet is that there's a sensor in there that I'm not using a good portion of. If we do get "capped" at 5k I'm hoping for 60 to 72fps. That should also give us nice 4k fps options as well.

...

The other bodies will be weighed against Red's gear by the Scarlet + Dragon + (likely) Pro I/O module + battery option. Red knows this. It's also clear to see what is available today at $15k and $25k.
Click to expand...

yeah true! We don't know what the 6K dragon scarlet body will end up costing off the shelf but could as well be around $15K to $20K and EOL the red one sales.

I feel the same way about the sensor, Phil. I just wish there was a standard speed shooting option at full sensor size. Without additional crop factor. Like 5K@24fps ...
It could just be that the dragon for scarlet will be similar to what it is now with the MX: stills at full size and motion at 1K below. But I'd like 24fps@6K and higher fps at 5K ... that would be awesome already. (But of course I'd take more any day hehehe)
 
At the end of the day an upgrade has to be an upgrade.

So IF Scarlet shoots 5k @ 24,25,30 fps this is the minimum upgrade path.

No I don't want an Epic at a Scarlet price (red will not do it anyway) , I can hire Epics when I need one & no I don't want huge variable frame rates, I'm already seeing a plethora of TVC's shooting "Slo-mo" & people its becoming boring. Yes for the dollars I pay I do expect something more than 2 more stops of DR & no I reckon we will not get 6K @ 24,25,30 fps. But yes maybe 6k @ 1,12, 8 fps exactly like current Scarlets have in 5K .

So next year will be interesting, from my limited understanding of upgrading I think Epic owners will be given preference so I wouldn't be banking on upgrades for Scarlets for quite awhile........along while. In the meantime competition will not be sitting on their hands either.
 
Exactly mike, I think this is what to expect. But we all know that RED is always good for surprises.... So I'll still be anxious ;)
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top