What can I expect?

[Rob Garcia]

Ok so, I check the forum and the net periodically on some news on the 2/3 fixed lens cam. Here is my dilemma. I know red says everything is subject to change and blah blah. But what is the latest dig? I mean I am a 25 year old guy with a semi decent job that pays enough for me to save for a $4000 cam with a few months of heavy sacrificing. But Honestly I am tired of waiting and want to get moving with projects.
I need a camera! Plain and simple. If red is so unbelievably unreliable with their information on release, then what camera should I purchase instead?
I can need to get some things going here? I dont have enough money to be renting a Red One every time i feel like it, infact I dont have money to rent it for a weekend. If I did that I would blow the savings I worked so hard to get for the 2/3 fixed lens.
I'm not counting on shooting a specific project on red or holding production for a camera. I just wanna buy a great camera at a low price that will last me and give the results I need to achieve great stuff. I thought I could do it with the scarlet, and figured I would wait for the fall, but Honestly I cannot keep waiting and dealing with such vague and shady info.

I understand why they do this, but quite frankly, it gets on my nerves. Deadlines exist for a reason. Movies have deadlines and are expected to release, and that's that.
I just fear that were going to get a repeat of the last nab where they announce something and then continue to push it back for another year. Don't announce something if its not ready! You can't be a full perfectionist when it comes to a consumer market. I understand they want to make things awesome, but release something! Or give us some SOLID info. Improve it as it goes on! Otherewise red is going to be that little kid saying its not ready yet, and tamper with it and tamper with it until you have wasted tons of time, messed up your project and the competition has blown you by! I have respect for RED but dont mess with your consumers guys. You have to give SOMETHING. It angers me a bit that Red has fallen comfortable on the nitch that they are the only company that fabricates cameras like this on the market, therefore they have an excuse to do what they want with out remorse. I don't agree with that mentality that is why competition is healthy. It moves things along.

Either way back to the issue at hand. Knowing my situation. Should I wait? Or say to hell with it and get another camera? If so, what can I afford that I can use to give me a great film look and will be not for the film price?

Any help is greatly appreciated guys.

Best

Rob Garcia

 

[Shane Nassiri]

I think with that attitude you should say the hell with it and move on.

Red is in uncharted territory here, and they have the ability to do things right by not being beholden to deadlines and shareholder demands. And they're kind enough to foster a community that wants to join in the vision with them.

I'm in the same boat as you are, a student who's worked hard to save enough (hopefully for a S35 with modest accessories), and I'm itching to get my hands on a camera and start shooting. But nothing_on_the_market_comes_close to offering a solution that Scarlet will offer. So I bide my time and wait patiently, realizing that I am not entitled to anything Red produces, but I have the privilege of being a part of this journey.

 

[Jonathan Stevenson]

I think with that attitude you should say the hell with it and move on.

Red is in uncharted territory here, and they have the ability to do things right by not being beholden to deadlines and shareholder demands. And they're kind enough to foster a community that wants to join in the vision with them.

I'm in the same boat as you are, a student who's worked hard to save enough (hopefully for a S35 with modest accessories), and I'm itching to get my hands on a camera and start shooting. But nothing_on_the_market_comes_close to offering a solution that Scarlet will offer. So I bide my time and wait patiently, realizing that I am not entitled to anything Red produces, but I have the privilege of being a part of this journey.

Well put! Seconded.

 

[Rob Garcia]

Don't misunderstand, there is no attitude, there is a right to question the whole matter, and a right to feel this way. No one has bashed red, or spoken ill of them. I just speak the simple truth. I know red is working to make a great product. But, and its a big but, because of the market in which they stand alone in, certain comforts have added to the way they operate. I think its great that they have a community. I attended a panel at USC for the future of red and I liked what they had to say. But, if they are going to have a community, I do think that they should be a lot more involved. Keeping us updated and taking us on the "Journey" as you say. Also, in any community there will be opposing arguments. That's the point of a community. That is how red will get it's feedback, and somewhat pressure to do what they need to do. Plus the purpose of this thread was not to cause controversy or have Die hard red followers come down and defend them. It is to get some sort of answer, or option from ppl who may have more insight or input. Im looking for answers, and yes to a degree stating my own frustration. In fact, there is a great part of this community that feels the same way I do. A great deal have expressed the same frustration, even to the point that Jim made a comment on it. This is normal and should be expected when a product of this caliber is in the mix.

 

[Jason Ramsey]

RED has generally been very open during their development process, but have made the decision to quiet down a bit lately b/c of competition. They've said everything we've seen is two generations behind as far as the DSMC's are concerned, and last we saw anything new was a few months ago, I think.

Though, i'm sure they are still burning the midnight oil.

As to release dates, the most recent news regarding potential release time frame of the cameras was that 1. they are scaling back overtime and going more at normal speed, and that this would impact delivery dates by a month or two from the posted estimates. 2. Since then, Jim recently posted that much of the delivery dates are dependent upon a successful ASIC spin, and that they'll no more in a couple of months, and we probably shouldn't expect much in the way of updates concerning release dates until then. Don't quote me on those as I'm going from memory, but that's what I remember.

Depending on what you want to do with your camera, there is always the option of buying a camera that you can use now, and make money off of now. When your DSMC does come around, you can sell your current one to help pay for it, and hopefully you have also made some money off of that camera as well... As opposed to sitting around waiting for your DSMC to come, and doing nothing in the meantime.

You emphatically stated that you need a camera now, and want to get moving with your projects. I would recommend buying one then and getting on with things. Learn, and make money in the meantime. Hopefully, when the time comes, you will be in a much better position to purchase and operate a dsmc as a result. Rather than sitting around waiting. Don't let waiting for a camera be an excuse not to do anything.

Hope that helps.

later,
Jason

 

[Mohammed El Sharqawy]

Don't let waiting for a camera be an excuse not to do anything.

somehow you're right.. but, the idea of the Scarlet ruines anything else you can use at the same price range.. when you think of any project, select your working camera.. and start working.. all along the way you'll think,, ohh,, if I had the scarlet now with this project? .. so, it will always impose low grade view to the tools that youre using.. what's funny about this feeling is when the DSMCs are released this low grade view will be attached to all kinds of camera's and camera makers on the market.. and will put RED in front of everything.. and it will make a feel that you've made the super duper right decesion when you decided to get this camera.. the exact feeling I got when I bought my Core i7 machine.. I've waited about 15 months for the i7 to be released..
there is no big deal with delays as long as these delay will add up to whole thing,, also, the guys at RED should be enjoying doing this.. so, its their right to have all the time and chances to enjoy it.. coz the more enjoyment they'll have the more enjoyment you will too..
the only thing I'm afraid of is with too much delays, if other companies woke up to what is going to happen after this release,, they will be releasing competetive products that might offer some advantages RED might not be offering.. coz each brand has its powerful areas.. so, when you buy a DSMCs you will loose the feeling I wrote about..
this didn't happen with RED ONE .. but, this time its deifferent price tag..

 

[jimhare]

Heh. We were in the exact same situation while waiting for our Red Ones to be delivered. I waited nine months after ordering.

All I can say is that it's worth the wait and worth your while not to choose something inferior just because you can get it now.
Rent, borrow, lie, steal to get your projects done in the meantime. Learn, practice, learn, listen, learn, communicate.

When you do get your Scarlet you will start the most exciting part of your life.

I love my Red One, I think I will cherish my Epic. And I'll have a few Scarlets around as well. What a ride!

 

[Liam Hall]

When you do get your Scarlet you will start the most exciting part of your life.

I have to disagree with Jim. It's a camera, not the birth of a child.

Filmmaking is full of compromises and there will always be another piece of kit or another reason you can find for not shooting something.

So, if you need a camera to start shooting things, then go buy one and quit making excuses. Red's not holding you back, you are holding yourself back.

 

[Mohammed El Sharqawy]

Heh. We were in the exact same situation while waiting for our Red Ones to be delivered. I waited nine months after ordering.

All I can say is that it's worth the wait and worth your while not to choose something inferior just because you can get it now.
Rent, borrow, lie, steal to get your projects done in the meantime. Learn, practice, learn, listen, learn, communicate.

When you do get your Scarlet you will start the most exciting part of your life.

I love my Red One, I think I will cherish my Epic. And I'll have a few Scarlets around as well. What a ride!

you're choosing the right way to deal with technological developments.. that's how life should go with things changing around that fast...

 

[Ethan Cooper]

So wait, let me get this straight. You are in essence threatening a billionaire that you're going to spend your $6000 elsewhere unless he spends hundreds of thousands more to speed the process up for you. No really, I'm sure it'll work.

You really think complaining like a spoiled child who isn't getting his new toy quickly enough is going to have any sway in the Red camp? You're deluding yourself.

But, if they are going to have a community, I do think that they should be a lot more involved. Keeping us updated and taking us on the "Journey" as you say.

They stopped giving as many updates because knuckleheads like you would go off the deep end every time they revised a schedule. I can't say I blame them.

 

[David Wyatt]

Either way back to the issue at hand. Knowing my situation. Should I wait? Or say to hell with it and get another camera? If so, what can I afford that I can use to give me a great film look and will be not for the film price?

If you're incapable of waiting go & buy an EX1 & stop moaning...:001_rolleyes:

 

[Joe Ferralli]

Cut the guy some slack! He's just voicing his frustration like everyone else. There are countless other people out there that feel the same way as him. I teach a film course at a local college and when Red first announced the Scarlet at this price point, every film student started saving every penny they could for this. Yes, I'm sure Red is doing their best to get this thing out but don't be surprised to hear complaining when you give a release date, postpone it and then 3 months later take the dates completely off the site and say we'll give you an update in another 2 months or so. I'm sure it will be worth the wait but it's not a crime to let people vent. And yes, I'm waiting for the real name change for my profile.

 

[Jason Ramsey]

You really think complaining like a spoiled child who isn't getting his new toy quickly enough is going to have any sway in the Red camp? You're deluding yourself.

They stopped giving as many updates because knuckleheads like you would go off the deep end every time they revised a schedule. I can't say I blame them.

Since when did people decide it's ok to talk like this to other members of the community lately? It's getting very tiresome to read these kinds of posts, and they do little to increase the quality of discussion. If you can't take 5 seconds to think about what you are going to post here, and be a bit more tactful, and/or respectful, then please don't bother.

There is a lot of passion on these boards, and that's great... But, take your own advice and "stop behaving like a spoiled child" and set the right example. This whole lack of respect for each other is getting old real quick. Because, ultimately, it's disrespectful to the community as a whole, and the person who set it up in the first place.

Please, be passionate about your camera, and your work. But, be more respectful to the other members of this board. They come from all walks of life and all experience levels. That's why it's called a *community*.

Thanks.

later,
Jason

 

[Troy Smith]

It's all pretty simple, Red rolls the way they do, nothing will change that, either buy a different camera now, or wait for scarlet, but don't wait around with hope that your going to get a scarlet anytime soon, you won't.

It's Jims company and he does business the way he does business, he's made it clear that schedules and specs will change, no matter how many people disagree with his policies they will not change.

Not sure how Jim could make it more clear, expect long wait times, it's that simple, if you can't wait buy something else, if you can wait, wait.

 

[Benjamin Bixby]

I don't usually comment on stuff like this, but Shane said some great things there and I completely agree with what he has said.

I think with that attitude you should say the hell with it and move on.

Red is in uncharted territory here, and they have the ability to do things right by not being beholden to deadlines and shareholder demands. And they're kind enough to foster a community that wants to join in the vision with them.

I'm in the same boat as you are, a student who's worked hard to save enough (hopefully for a S35 with modest accessories), and I'm itching to get my hands on a camera and start shooting. But nothing_on_the_market_comes_close to offering a solution that Scarlet will offer. So I bide my time and wait patiently, realizing that I am not entitled to anything Red produces, but I have the privilege of being a part of this journey.

 

[Jeff Kilgroe]

I have to disagree with Jim. It's a camera, not the birth of a child.

A matter of perspective for sure... While I love my children dearly, I don't think I've ever felt so liberated and alive as the day they could both independently wipe their own ass.

 

[Jannard]

This is pretty easy stuff to understand.

1. We are developing cameras with the RED ONE as our only history. Before that, we had none.

2. We have been openly communicating with our customers and the community because it was fun and both sides learned a lot during the process.

3. We, from day one, clearly stated that everything changes... including the specs and delivery dates. Count on it.

4. The natives have been restless and angered when dates slipped or features were delayed. So we changed our approach.

5. We are not likely to give anymore guesstimates. We are likely to continue to talk generally about the process but not commit to anything until we are done. The idea of releasing beta cameras worked for a select group of people. It doesn't work now (unless we only deal beta to the same select group).

6. People have the right to ignore our warnings (of change) and get angry. We have the right to change our presentation because of that.

7. If you "want it NOW"... please buy something else. A RED ONE is a nice option because you can trade it in on an EPIC. If you want something smaller and cheaper, but an EX-1 or whatever is the flavor of the day. Just be aware that you'll likely be frustrated when the next flavor is released. Or not.

We are happy with what has been accomplished with our 1st try (see District 9 and a thousand other examples). We expect even bigger things when we release Scarlet & EPIC. But please understand that no matter whether we talk or don't talk... someone won't be happy.

Best.

Jim

 

[Emiliano Ranzani]

I really don't get these guys who desperatly need a camera but only if it is a Scarlet. Do you have some projects? Get an already avaiable camera and do it - no camera will ever automatically turn what you do into a masterpiece, no matter how good it may be.
Besides, when you buy a camera you aren't marrying it for life: you can always re-sell it (ebay anyone?).
Why don't you buy a EX-1 (random model) now and then put it on ebay when the Scarlet comes out? I can assure you that, despite the presence of the new Reds, there will still be quiet a lot of people willing to buy a recent, prosumer camera in good conditions.

I guess the RedOne success has become an obsession for some...

 

[Vladimir Eugene]

5. We are not likely to give anymore guesstimates. We are likely to continue to talk generally about the process but not commit to anything until we are done. The idea of releasing beta cameras worked for a select group of people. It doesn't work now (unless we only deal beta to the same select group).

Jim

Music to my ears. That is a fantastic Idea. The first 100 beta perhaps. I think most of those beta's would agree and love the ability to Beta.

vlad

 

[Jason Ramsey]

err, yeah... cough.... good thing I was number 99 on the redservation list.. <cough, cough> You guys got that on your list, right? :devil:

later,
Jason