What 8k will look like.

[Christoffer Glans]

ISO does not mean much if light is right. Fat histogram without the sadly uberly common starved blue channel and things will look splendid in 1280iso, when your blue channel is hardly there or very low (using tungsten and no filter on camera shoting underexposed) then keys will suffer pretty much no matter what iso. the trick is too make all 3 channels land in the middle of the color cube.

True that, but as I said, VFX people have been complaining a lot even when I've shot ISO500 with enough lights. There's a difference between the "ugly" ISO-noise and the noise texture that's almost always present. At ISO1280, there is a nice noise pattern (although I prefer ISO800), but it seems hard to use the material when doing tracking, keying and VFX. Or are the VFX people just spoiled with super clean digital material and have never worked on 35mm shots?

Simply I don't see that the approach of shooting a bit overscan, the way Fincher is practicing, is to ruin the artform of good framings, on the contrary.

Neither do I and anyone who says anything is "destroying" an artform doesn't know anything about art. Some people express themselves through the chaotic method of hand held cameras while others want the camera to be "invisible" with smooth motion and perfect composition. Using overscan helps achieving that.

 

[PatrickFaith]

I've been working on my adaptive multi point of view with deep pixel workflows, it seems like 8k by 4k is turning out to be a real nice format. I btw have found the best examples from the major guys doing deep pixel work are using RED camera's (i.e. R. Scott, P. Jackson, https://www.fxguide.com/featured/the-art-of-deep-compositing/ ). [ i btw get a lot of crashing from programs that haven't been tested so well on 8k footage]


[got my 8k workflow working fine now, the crashes were related to motion vector calculations ... those are killer at 8k]

 

[Hrvoje Simic]

But what I'm saying is, 8k can proved some "buffer". Or to be more correct about 1/4 more buffer than 6k. So another analogy: Just as you can (and probably do) shoot you takes a bit longer and cover your scenes with more angles then you probably will end up using in the edit, you can with 8k shoot them a bit wider to have a buffer for framing. Not always needed, but still I see no difference there.

If you frame wider it reduces the shooting feel and:
- Someone has to crop later to frame you wanted. Each shot.
- Additional time is needed for the editor to do his job
- Additional logistics are needed for making sure that is done precisely as it should be
- Additional variables emerge where something can be messed up (and Murphy tends to lurk)

Not trying to be dismissive. Looking through a VFX perspective, I can see how that can be very valuable in many cases.

 

[Björn Benckert]

If you frame wider it reduces the shooting feel and:
- Someone has to crop later to frame you wanted. Each shot.
- Additional time is needed for the editor to do his job
- Additional logistics are needed for making sure that is done precisely as it should be
- Additional variables emerge where something can be messed up (and Murphy tends to lurk)

Not trying to be dismissive. Looking through a VFX perspective, I can see how that can be very valuable in many cases.

Not much work needed to set frame guides to lets say 10%. That atomatically becomes crop values in nle... so editor can edit and know that he can click meta data and expand the shot at any time. Again the anology whith shooting extra angles or extra durations on takes goes quite far i my mind. And as the crop values can be set by the dp its more controlble from the dp side than shooting additional angles or extra long takes. Shooting more material then needed cause more work in edit yes, thats how it always been. Still thats done on pretty much every shoot. Shooting with a crop buffer has not really been available to us just yet as its been a struggle to keep up picture quialty and texture. 8k is, as I see it, in the clear on those point so i have no doubt people will start using it for crop in purposes.

To me a feature that would push this forward would be if camera could display only lets say a 6kk crop on the screen but record FF. Basically not use black bars or frame guides. That would make things like focusing etc easier. Especially when in ana mode a lot of ana lenses cover FF but if you want to record it all, then that takes up a lot of the screen showing a strip of picture across the 16:9 screens on camera. If a 1:2.4 could be displayed but a 1:4 would be recorded that would be a masiv improvment.... maybe somthing they fixed in weapon allready, have not checked.

another huge post benefit that comes with shootin overscan is that you get extra picture to 3d track on so even if its out of set and a bunch of c stands that is still very valuble data for some.

And as Patric writes deep compositing where every pixel has it space in z depth is quite comon. basically somthing done more or less on every stereo film and also where cg atmosfar is added. That work flow gain heavily from having extra frane widht. Just setting the convergence point for a 3d shot makes you reframe it and also scrambke tge pixel with small numbers then oversampling and overscan is king... bad argument from my side as I hate stereo