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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Well, I'm Sold on Dragon

Jason Honeycutt

Jason Honeycutt

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I know, Ted can sell ice to an Eskimo but there are things about the Dragon that I forgot about until I saw it all come together on this video;

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M1-2agkPOMQ&NR=1&feature=endscreen

My thing is though... where in the world is the Dragon footage!? NAB is long over and (supposedly) cameras were being upgraded there almost three months ago. Did I miss links for footage or something...? I really want to see the latitude in this, more than anything else... especially in low light. Ted was saying its sweetspot could be 1600-2000, which is insane to think about.
 
Owen Rennie said:
Still waiting...no footage yet
Click to expand...

Has anyone gotten their cameras back with the Dragon in it...? I'm kinda wondering if it was more 'show' at NAB than actual cameras that are in circulation. It seems like there should be footage appearing on Vimeo or YouTube by now, NAB was almost three months ago. I'm 95% for sure going to upgrade mine... but I want to see what it looks like first.
 
what I keep wandering is that at NAB they were actually showing cameras being prepped with DRAGON but then after months there is no footage around. What happened to these cameras?
 
Bob Minervini said:
what I keep wandering is that at NAB they were actually showing cameras being prepped with DRAGON but then after months there is no footage around. What happened to these cameras?
Click to expand...

They probably all went to the likes of PJ, Fincher and Cameron etc, and they are shooting stuff that won't seen outside of their shops for 9-12 months at the earliest.

Hell, they could have all gone to PJ. Correction: 6-12 months. The next Hobbit is due in December. :-)
 
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I'm glad I opted for Epic. The more I think about it the less sense the Dragon upgrade is for Scarlet. You only get half the benefit. Sure, you get some added DR but 6k anythingi is out the window, half the point of Dragon to begin with. Epic or bust guys. Scarlet is the gateway RED cam!
 
Jason Honeycutt said:
I know, Ted can sell ice to an Eskimo but there are things about the Dragon that I forgot about until I saw it all come together on this video;

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M1-2agkPOMQ&NR=1&feature=endscreen

My thing is though... where in the world is the Dragon footage!? NAB is long over and (supposedly) cameras were being upgraded there almost three months ago. Did I miss links for footage or something...? I really want to see the latitude in this, more than anything else... especially in low light. Ted was saying its sweetspot could be 1600-2000, which is insane to think about.
Click to expand...
Ted's awesome, it would be cool to have a sticky on all the Ted talks over the years.
 
The cameras you sow been Dragonized at NAB, most likely are ready to ship, nicely stored at RED, at exception of the few that are currently been used internally for testing the sensor as the running SW his been tweaked about.

But none wil go out till RED decides that what they have achieved in the Firmware side of things his exactly were it needs to be in order to be Dragon worthy.

Not much of a "show" per say as much as it was getting ready, while taking the opportunity to show that the Dragon sensor is indeed ready... Just needs the magic sauce to make it spit fire... ;)
 
Jason, are you scarlet or epic owner?
 
Jarek Zabczynski said:
I'm glad I opted for Epic. The more I think about it the less sense the Dragon upgrade is for Scarlet. You only get half the benefit. Sure, you get some added DR but 6k anythingi is out the window, half the point of Dragon to begin with. Epic or bust guys. Scarlet is the gateway RED cam!
Click to expand...

Same here, I even pulled out my Scarlet to Dragon upgrade to go for the Epic, and I got it today! That means it´ll start paying itself sooner than a Scarlet Dragon, or rather, paying itself AND its upgrade to Epic Dragon
 
So when you trade up to epic do you receive a new brain or do they just upgrade the Scarlet brain to Epic specs?
 
Jarek Zabczynski said:
I'm glad I opted for Epic. The more I think about it the less sense the Dragon upgrade is for Scarlet. You only get half the benefit. Sure, you get some added DR but 6k anythingi is out the window, half the point of Dragon to begin with. Epic or bust guys. Scarlet is the gateway RED cam!
Click to expand...

Hard to even comment on what's the better choice without any official specs. A lot of folks don't need 6K and you do get a boost in available compression settings and frame rates.

Not as much as Epic, but then again it will be nice to have options like being able to shoot 4K @ 320ISO and then bump up to 2000ISO for a 2.5x overcrank (24->60) without adding lights, noise, changing the relative shutter, or opening up the aperture while still maintaining the same exposure. No other sensor can do that.

Additionally, there's new color science which- judging by the amount of time Graeme is spending on it- should be icing on the cake when compared to RC3/RG3. If not, then somebody at RED has some 'splaining to do.
 
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Kyle Dones said:
Jason, are you scarlet or epic owner?
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Hey there Kyle. I own a Scarlet... love it to death (been shooting for the last three days with it, which is why I've been MIA). To me, the 4K, for what I do is more than enough resolution so the more resolution with the Dragon isn't what's selling on it... it's the latitude. Every DP I know that goes with Alexa over Epic does it for that reason (the extra stops). Personally, Alexa's resolution is its downfall so with Dragon coming out, I think it'll be a gamechanger for RED.

But back to the topic... personally, I'm leaning toward going Scarlet Dragon because of that range and I rarely, really ever need massively slow FPS... if I do, I'll just rent an Epic for those shots... but when you shoot 24fps 90% of the time, to me, then then those extra stops really will help if I have to do some run n' gun or steal shots. Plus, the MX sensor was huge upgrade, as far as overall look, I feel. The original One was great but it just got washed out too easily, I felt. But the MX put it right on par with film stock (that webisode series has it the same as film stock, the latitude). The Dragon will now be just absolutely overkill and it'll make shooting just way too easy.

I wonder what the next frontier is, though... no white balance? I think that's the only advantage film has left, where can get accurate colors doing an interior with accurate color in the windows behind. Imagine that - and, now you'll have the stops to not blow out the window and still get the inside.
 
I went scarlet and upgrade to epic. Not looking back. I have gotten clients back with the epic because of compression and frame rates. I'm upgrading to dragon as soon as red allows to keep an attractive package to clients I have now and potential clients down the road. Currently I have clients that shoot all their music videos in slo mo so the epic is amazing for them, I have another client who loves green screen so 3:1 is great for them. I rent out and offer DP services so I try to think from both POVs.

(Speculation *alert*) I remember red was saying they had two surprises in their time line of releases then they stopped announcing things so far in advance or at least went a little more quiet. Maybe those surprises are a sensor that picks up accurate colors...hey we can dream right??
 
Jason Honeycutt said:
Hey there Kyle. I own a Scarlet... love it to death (been shooting for the last three days with it, which is why I've been MIA). To me, the 4K, for what I do is more than enough resolution so the more resolution with the Dragon isn't what's selling on it... it's the latitude. Every DP I know that goes with Alexa over Epic does it for that reason (the extra stops). Personally, Alexa's resolution is its downfall so with Dragon coming out, I think it'll be a gamechanger for RED.

But back to the topic... personally, I'm leaning toward going Scarlet Dragon because of that range and I rarely, really ever need massively slow FPS... if I do, I'll just rent an Epic for those shots... but when you shoot 24fps 90% of the time, to me, then then those extra stops really will help if I have to do some run n' gun or steal shots. Plus, the MX sensor was huge upgrade, as far as overall look, I feel. The original One was great but it just got washed out too easily, I felt. But the MX put it right on par with film stock (that webisode series has it the same as film stock, the latitude). The Dragon will now be just absolutely overkill and it'll make shooting just way too easy.

I wonder what the next frontier is, though... no white balance? I think that's the only advantage film has left, where can get accurate colors doing an interior with accurate color in the windows behind. Imagine that - and, now you'll have the stops to not blow out the window and still get the inside.
Click to expand...

Next frontier is most likely a Lytro-style cinema camera.

I'm still torn between Scarlet Dragon and Epic (and eventually, Epic Dragon). I definitely would love the higher-rated ISO for low-light situations, which I do quite frequently.

However, I still get pretty frustrated that I can't use a lens at the focal length it was made for - everything gets a crop. I guess the 5DII spoiled me over the past 5 years, but still - I have framing in mind, and don't always have the room to step back for what I want.

Going Epic would get me closer (as would Scarlet Dragon, both at 5K resolution), but 6K, as noted by Phil Holland, is very minimal crop on my Canon glass.
 
I feel a huge difference going from 1.6 to 1.3...so does my computer. The 1.3 is great although I still find my self using a 35mm more than not.

Lytro, hmm https://www.lytro.com/camera
 
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