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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Web Exports using CS6 (settings question)

I'll echo what Gabe said. There are significant advantages to rendering out say DPX frames first then encoding later.

One of the bazillion reasons we choose to export frame sequences is that if you have any changes that must happen to a project you can export a range/sequence/even single frame if there's a fix that needs to be made. Whereas encoding all at once would potentially waste a chunk of time and less flexible.

With a decent CPU and good drives exporting uncompressed frames is pretty great. Only downside is space really.

When I usually deliver elements to production I give them DPX frame sequences with whatever their desired handles are to assist with the edit. Typically between 8-24 frames. Depends on the project, client, editor.
 
They do a straight conversion for every type of source material. You as a human can look at something and say "eww thats ugly" and attempt a different method for RGB to YUV conversion.

PPro/AE doesn't give you control other than "low quality/ high quality" You have to go into different tools to control the scaling.

Also, I like giving youtube a 4:2:0 signal because you will know how it will look when at 4:2:0. When you give a 4:2:2 YUV signal like most are doing with ProRes, you will be surprised with what Youtube will give you, because it will not be the same after conversion.

There are just visual artifacts that are inherent from going from RGB to YUV at 4:2:0 and there are tricks you will want to do to maintain the perception of the highest quality possible.
 
Gabe Conroy said:
Don't render and encode at the same time! Especially if you're doing H264 VBR 2-pass...each pass is another render, so you're rendering your project twice for no reason. Huge waste of time. You should render to an uncompressed file first, and then encode that uncompressed file into your deliverable. Premiere's much better at focusing purely on rendering...trying to encode at the same time just mucks it up.
Click to expand...

Not sure I understand this Gabe....2 pass VBR is the way to go no matter what your workflow for H264.....and ya it increases render times...but I guarantee in an exact filesize comparison 2 pass VBR h264 will look better then single pass VBR from an uncompressed source....

And I would like to see how this 'mucks' premiere up.....

The encoding is done from a bitmap image....so PPro first Debayers and decompresses the r3d....then encodes it to h264....
Are you saying there are errors introduced into this process and PPro can only handle one stage at a time???

If you are advocating using another encoder...thats an entirely different topic...
I like to render out uncompressed (or cineform) then go H264 because I may have multiple outputs
 
Gabe Conroy said:
That's because you're trying to render at 60p and ~1080p resolution which isn't allowed in the level 5.1 H264 spec.
.
Click to expand...

60p at 1080 is allowed at the 5.1 spec...encoded one recently

the 5.1 spec allows for 120 at 1080
 
Mike Harrington said:
Not sure I understand this Gabe....2 pass VBR is the way to go no matter what your workflow for H264.....and ya it increases render times...but I guarantee in an exact filesize comparison 2 pass VBR h264 will look better then single pass VBR from an uncompressed source....

And I would like to see how this 'mucks' premiere up.....
Click to expand...

A 2-pass encode means it runs through the sequence twice...so at 50% it has run through the entire sequence and is now beginning to run through it a second time. If you're rendering and encoding at the same time, it has to re-render the sequence again for the second pass. Completely redundant and unnecessary. You should just render once to an uncompressed file, then do your 2-pass encode.

This is based on trying it both ways...you'll have to ask Adobe why it mucks it up. I just know that it does. But as Phil points out, it's better to just render to uncompressed anyway. Premiere has gamma issues rendering to some formats...DPX is one of the few formats you can trust Premiere to always render correctly.
 
on second thought I agree...if it's a long sequence render would totally go uncompressed then to H264...

I have been doing such short stuff lately all while using rocket I seem to have forgotten those 17 hour renders from 2 months ago....

also its a no brainer if you are having multiple outputs....or experimenting with settings...

so ya I agree....go uncompressed

for short stuff though...if your machine is fast, I think adobe handles the encode and render fine....
 
Good to hear I'm not alone. Thanks for posting Kenny.

Wouldn't it be NVRAM on Intel based processors?

PRAM is power PC territory?

In Ppro, there is no flicker but I see it in the export.????

Thinking forward, if anyone is wondering how to reset the NVRAM/PRAM here is how you do it:

Resetting NVRAM / PRAM

1. Shut down your Mac.
2. Locate the following keys on the keyboard: Command (⌘), Option, P, and R.
(You will need to hold these keys down simultaneously in step 4).
3. Turn on the computer.
4. Press and hold the Command-Option-P-R keys before the gray screen appears.
5. Hold the keys down until the computer restarts and you hear the startup sound for the second time.
6. Release the keys.

After resetting NVRAM or PRAM, you may need to reconfigure your settings for speaker volume, screen resolution, startup disk selection, and time zone information. If issues persist, your Mac's logic board battery (not a portable Mac's rechargeable battery) may need to be replaced. The logic board battery helps retain NVRAM/PRAM settings when your computer is shut down. You can take your Mac to a Mac Genius or Apple Authorized Service Provider to replace the battery on the logic board.

Kenny Mosher said:
Will,
I have seen this flicker issue many times in Premiere. I have posted about it a long time ago, but I have never received a clear solution. I think Premiere bugs out when you change Source Settings( ie RG3 to RLF etc). I have noticed the problem more if I do that or something similar, but sometimes it occurs randomly on exports.

Usually I do a restart and clear PRAM. This usually solves it.
Click to expand...
 
How do you render uncompressed. Hit the "Enter" key in the sequence? My next step would be to "Export" then "Media." Is there something I am missing? I'm relatively new to exporting with AME.

Gabe Conroy said:
You should just render once to an uncompressed file, then do your 2-pass encode.
Click to expand...
 
Hitting enter will only render previews to the codec selected in the sequence preset....and they are seldom uncompressed (although they can be)

Those files are only rendered if 'use previews' is checked....
So it's entirely unnecessary

Just go into ame and render out an image sequence.....

DPX exr or tiff...or use an uncompressed video codec, or even a high bitrate dnxhd prores or cineform

Technically uncompressed would be the best....but you will see little or no difference in YouTube if your master was prores ect...
 
Will Keir said:
I started at 23.97 hehehe. Doing the resize changed it.
Click to expand...

Thats ok .....
A couple months ago I phoned my ISP because the Internet wasn't working....the first question they asked was is the modem plugged in.....

I then went on to explain that I built about 15 computers.....have made a lot of small office networks and wasn't a complete idiot, and maybe they should focus on there end and forget about the obvious ....

After a few minutes of running through things something wasn't adding up....I looked at the modem and realized it was unplugged....
It was a little embarrassing to say the least...
 
I reset the NVRAM, still seeing flickers in the new export. See below for the link. I wish I could see what the end viewers will see without these weird random flickers.
 
When you guys are exporting for 4k master, such as the RED Film Festival are you doing DPX sequences? Is this also the way to pass the sequence along for color timing?

Great to have you guys on this thread, I'm honored to be in a good group helping get things done.

Mike Harrington said:
Hitting enter will only render previews to the codec selected in the sequence preset....and they are seldom uncompressed (although they can be)

Those files are only rendered if 'use previews' is checked....
So it's entirely unnecessary

Just go into ame and render out an image sequence.....

DPX exr or tiff...or use an uncompressed video codec, or even a high bitrate dnxhd prores or cineform

Technically uncompressed would be the best....but you will see little or no difference in YouTube if your master was prores ect...
Click to expand...
 
hahahahha, a little humility check is necessary every once in a while. I just keep plugging away.

Mike Harrington said:
I then went on to explain that I built about 15 computers.....have made a lot of small office networks and wasn't a complete idiot, and maybe they should focus on there end and forget about the obvious ....

After a few minutes of running through things something wasn't adding up....I looked at the modem and realized it was unplugged....
It was a little embarrassing to say the least...
Click to expand...
 
Okay, here it is, hopefully tuned up for a final release. Let's see how it works. Hopefully it won't show up as a link but with the video frame.

[video]http://willkeir.com/REDUSER/The Beautiful Land FINISH_1.mp4[/video]
 
Damn, how do I get the video frame to show? This way used to work. "Insert Image" then paste the link from my FTP.
 
Will Keir said:
Okay, here it is, hopefully tuned up for a final release. Let's see how it works. Hopefully it won't show up as a link but with the video frame.

[video]http://willkeir.com/REDUSER/The Beautiful Land FINISH_1.mp4[/video]
Click to expand...

Disregard this message. Gamma is correct. Google Chrome doesn't do a TV to PC levels conversion.

My only comment would be to encode the file again as a level 4.1 to increase compatibility with hardware players and mobile devices. Most max out at 4.1 and there is no reason why this should be set to level 5.1

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/H.264/MPEG-4_AVC#Levels

You could get away with level 4, but the bitrate spikes usually don't get high enough for high intensity scene changes.
 
Will Keir said:
How do you render uncompressed. Hit the "Enter" key in the sequence? My next step would be to "Export" then "Media." Is there something I am missing? I'm relatively new to exporting with AME.
Click to expand...

You should export to an uncompressed format (the sequence previews just use some kind mpeg codec...it's only meant for preview purposes). You can probably just do Quicktime uncompressed 10-bit 4:2:2 for the most part...for more intense stuff, I use DPX. From DPX you can encode to ProRes 4:4:4. With DPX you'll have to export sound separately though. EDIT: DPX is an image sequence, so keep that in mind. If you export to DPX, make sure you create a folder to contain all the files

It's possible you can render and encode straight to ProRes without a problem. I'm on a PC so I have to encode to ProRes separately with a command line program.
 
Alexander Mejia said:
Disregard this message. Gamma is correct. Google Chrome doesn't do a TV to PC levels conversion.

My only comment would be to encode the file again as a level 4.1 to increase compatibility with hardware players and mobile devices. Most max out at 4.1 and there is no reason why this should be set to level 5.1

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/H.264/MPEG-4_AVC#Levels

You could get away with level 4, but the bitrate spikes usually don't get high enough for high intensity scene changes.
Click to expand...

Yeah but YouTube and Vimeo always re-encode, so compatibility isn't an issue. It's always best to maximize quality to reduce the effect of generational loss.
 
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