Web Exports using CS6 (settings question)

[Will Keir]

My God they are! hahahahaha

Now you know why the almost 1 hour Lens shootout video was killing me. Render times are insane!

 

[Will Keir]

Well that's good news. Must be a driver or a plugin, not exactly sure how to trouble shoot this one... Thanks for taking a look Phil.

Downloaded your video, and all I see is pretty northern California. No flicker to be found

 

[Will Keir]

I went with 1.333 because the project was shot mostly 5kws and I found the only way to eliminate black bars was this setting.

I would go with 1:1 pixel aspect...not anamorphic

only do that if you are trying to save bandwidth....the 1.333 pixel aspect could slightly soften your image....

 

[Will Keir]

Now if only their support was worth a shit. I like the program a lot, usually have to save often because I get a least one spinning wheel per session.

Everything else is butter in Adobe land. I've been recommending a few things over the last year I hope get implemented.

 

[Alexander Mejia]

If you're trying to get a high quality export out to YouTube, I find that Red footage tends to have a LOT of detail, which may not hold up to the really poor 4-5 MegaBits per second they will crunch your file down to.

I tend to give youtube, a pre-scaled version to the exact resolution (2048×1536), and then heavily scrub the Cb and Cr channels of any noise, since this takes bits away from the Y channel, the part with all the details!

This pre-processing basically helps the low bitrate video compression to maintain as many details as possible. Unfortunately this means that your image will not have film grain, but it's better to have a nicer looking image, than one where there are just ugly blocks.

Even if you upload a video to youtube with a heavy film grain pattern, you'll find that it is practically invisible except for the most static of shots due to the ultra low 5Mbps they compress everything to.

 

[Mike Harrington]

I went with 1.333 because the project was shot mostly 5kws and I found the only way to eliminate black bars was this setting.

If you are shooting WS you have to crop to eliminate black bars in a 16x9 display....I think the aspect ratio may be tricking your player into eliminating the bars....but without cropping or stretching the image you can't eliminate the bars..and the last thing you want to do is stretch it....

Unfortunately the difference is massive....as you are trying to go from 2.4 ratio to a 1.78 ratio....you either have to do a massive crop(over 1300 pixels in width)...or live with the bars (I am assuming you are going to 1080p)

 

[Mike Harrington]

If you're trying to get a high quality export out to YouTube, I find that Red footage tends to have a LOT of detail, which may not hold up to the really poor 4-5 MegaBits per second they will crunch your file down to.

I tend to give youtube, a pre-scaled version to the exact resolution (2048×1536), and then heavily scrub the Cb and Cr channels of any noise, since this takes bits away from the Y channel, the part with all the details!

This pre-processing basically helps the low bitrate video compression to maintain as many details as possible. Unfortunately this means that your image will not have film grain, but it's better to have a nicer looking image, than one where there are just ugly blocks.

Even if you upload a video to youtube with a heavy film grain pattern, you'll find that it is practically invisible except for the most static of shots due to the ultra low 5Mbps they compress everything to.

Good points Alexander....
How does one with basic tools scrub the cb and cr channels...are you blurring them a bit?

 

[Alexander Mejia]

Good points Alexander....
How does one with basic tools scrub the cb and cr channels...are you blurring them a bit?

Blurring knocks down those details and gives you a haze filter like effect. If you're going for that effect, it will help a bit, but actually de-noising those channels individually removes those details and bumps up your file's compressibility without artistically changing your intended image. After an agressive channel denoise you'll notice that when it's knocked down to 4:2:0 you'll have all kinds of banding in your gradients. I try to put in static dithering in just those parts to reduce the effect.

It's like mastering for your video because you know it will be displayed on a poor source. Audio has done this for years when mastering for CDs, videos will need the same now that they are bigger and hold more data than what we are broadcasting.

 

[Mike Harrington]

makes sense....
I usually apply a small amount of dither for everything going online...or any 8 bit format for that matter (that would show obvious banding)

1 more question...since you are a real working compressionist

what dont you like about youtube's RGB to YUV conversion....and do we get a better conversion through a regular PPRO/AE output, or are you using other tools to achieve this?

 

[Will Keir]

I see what you are saying. The video is indeed stretched. So I need to "prep" in another CS6 sequence before my export to eliminate the bars? I'm usually going with 2.35 ration.

without cropping or stretching the image you can't eliminate the bars

 

[Phil Holland]

You can crop within Adobe Media Encoder. Give that a go.

 

[Will Keir]

That's were I was fooled into scretching my 5kWS footage with the HD Anamorphic 1.33 option. Is there a custom or user input option in AME?

 

[Phil Holland]

You can crop in Adobe Media Encoder under "Source" there's a crop icon in the upper left corner that allows you to click and drag what you want as an aspect ratio/pixel resolution.


5K WS (5120x2160) = 2.37:1 aspect ratio
For you to derive a 16x9 aspect ratio of your 5K WS you'll be looking at 3840x2160, or in Red speak "4K HD" or in ITU standard speak "UHD 4K".

As Mike stated, that's a fairly significant crop.

If you're not shooting anamorphic you'll want square pixels.

When I shoot on Epic and pretty much how we've worked with the material in the past is to shoot at 5K "full", maximum resolution, which allows for either the most flexible material suitable for WS or HD aspect ratio cropping with the added benefit of being able to re-frame in post a bit if you are targeting one of those aspect ratios for delivery.

Here's a graphic I made to illustrate common aspect ratios in relation to Mysterium-X's full sensor size:

 

[Will Keir]

Thanks Phil, good to have you helping out.

 

[Will Keir]

I keep getting this message when custom framing. Seems like a little trickery at work. I am able to get the size I want but I gotta push and pull, play around and get the error several times before it takes.

Looks like the MBps is really how you dial in export size. Doing at Render of my work tonight at 5 MB/S, which is just about the max Youtube and Vimeo deliver?

 

[Mike Harrington]

Will.....why are you exporting as 59.94 fps :lol:


That probably will solve your problems....
But not sure h264 will accept the 803 size....might have to be even numbers.

When rendering....change as little as possible

Don't change pixel aspect....don't change frame rate ..

And as far as 5mbps...I agree with all Alexander's post.....but remember YouTube will probably re compress your footage...to 4-5 mbits.....it won't use your raw footage(your encoded h264)
So giving it more to work with can help a lot.....like 10mbps ect.....

Alex was more talking about prepping the footage so you tubes encoder assigns more data to the luminance channel, and not having the YouTube encoder waste bits trying to encode red and blue noise.....squeezing most out of the inferior encoding they might do

 

[Kenny Mosher]

Will,
I have seen this flicker issue many times in Premiere. I have posted about it a long time ago, but I have never received a clear solution. I think Premiere bugs out when you change Source Settings( ie RG3 to RLF etc). I have noticed the problem more if I do that or something similar, but sometimes it occurs randomly on exports.

Usually I do a restart and clear PRAM. This usually solves it.

 

[Mike Harrington]

I echo what Phil said about 5k....with just one thing
Avoid 5k HD like the plague for now.....adobe has issues with it.....bad render times
5k FF is much better choice

Another thing about the frame rate changes.....even watch the little ones....
If you render a 24p out as a 23.976p you can see horrendous motion issues

 

[Gabe Conroy]

Don't render and encode at the same time! Especially if you're doing H264 VBR 2-pass...each pass is another render, so you're rendering your project twice for no reason. Huge waste of time. You should render to an uncompressed file first, and then encode that uncompressed file into your deliverable. Premiere's much better at focusing purely on rendering...trying to encode at the same time just mucks it up.

I also prefer using Handbrake (which uses X264 to encode H264) over the MainConcept encoder that Adobe uses. YouTube always re-encodes what you upload, so don't try to upload a file meant for playback...always encode for quality! When I can I upload ProRes, although that's quite a bit bigger than the high quality H264 files I can encode from Handbrake.

If you have the render time, doing noise reduction (Neat Video!) on all of your shots can help a lot (YouTube's encoder will throw out a ton of information, but it isn't smart enough to throw out noise over actual detail...better to do that yourself). Although 5k to 1080p using Premiere's more advanced GPU accelerated downscaler is pretty dang clean.

 

[Gabe Conroy]

I keep getting this message when custom framing. Seems like a little trickery at work. I am able to get the size I want but I gotta push and pull, play around and get the error several times before it takes.

Looks like the MBps is really how you dial in export size. Doing at Render of my work tonight at 5 MB/S, which is just about the max Youtube and Vimeo deliver?

That's because you're trying to render at 60p and ~1080p resolution which isn't allowed in the level 5.1 H264 spec.

If you use AME to encode H264 for YouTube, you should just select the highest profile...it uses the most advanced H264 features. It won't play on as many devices, but that doesn't matter because YouTube re-encodes everything. Better to give it as much information as possible to begin with.