Weapon System Demo (Full Auto 120fps)

[Matt Gottshalk]

p.s. I'm one of those liberals(on social issues) that also supports gun rights. I like to hunt.

Gun rights ain't about hunting.

My wife's Concealed Carry Permit and her 9mm is the only thing that makes her, a little 110lb. redhead, equal to a 225lb rapist.

 

[Fredrik Callinggard]

Please don't talk like you know about the firearms laws in the US. Certain areas in the US are easier to get firearms than others. But the FFL still has to put your name into the FBI background check system. Now that's just for basic firearms, riles and handguns. Machine guns, silencers, short barreled rifles and shot guns are a different story. They aren't banned, just heavily regulated by the ATF and the DOJ. Plus most of the NFA items as they are called cannot even leave the state you purchased them in without clearing it with the ATF first.

The reason why people need those full auto weapons or the .50BMG sniper rifles is the same reason why people need a car that can do 180mph...because they can. Its also fun to have a rare item such as these weapons and many people enjoy them and show them off as they would a nice and rare car. Just because the gun haters can't see past what other people have labeled these weapons as doesn't mean that I should be punished for their fear.

I'm not trying to pretend I'm very knowledgeable of your gun laws. I was of course just generalizing to make a point.

There's gun law in any country, some are harder and some are not. There's a difference to make it that you need to get a license for it, just like driving (which you said yourself is very dangerous thing to do) or diving, then to just be checked in a national system.

To just go into a store and buy a gun without ever have to have hold one before, that's strange to me. There is, IMO, no responsibility from either your Government or you as a people if that kind of thing is allowed.

Secondly I see your point with buying a machine gun etc with the argument just because you can, but I don't agree with it.

I'm not a stranger to guns, not at all. I've had my fair share with every caliber imaginable. Therefor I also believe in an EVEN more controlled environment, but I'm not for banning it.

If you go to Svalbard you'll be handed a rifle as protection for polar bears hahahaha, but only if you step outside the city. So yes I think that you should have the right to that protection if you need it. Just wonder have many times in my life (or most peoples) I will hahahaha.

And yes there's a hunting tradition in Europe that is very large and old, but in most country's you do need to earn your license to hunt. Can't speak for them all of course. There's also regulations in what firearms your allowed to hunt with, which I do believe is more strict than the US (could be wrong, but I doubt that). Hunting is very regulated (don't know about the states).

This is a difficult debate, but what is interesting is wondering why US has such gun violence compared to for example European countries. Doesn't it ever make you "pro the second amendment guys" stop and wonder why?

I'm with Hans on that it's all about Education. That it comes down to society and it's values. England is going down the drain right now and it's because it's on it's 3, 4th or 5th generation of people who couldn't give a toss. They have no respect for their kids, so their kids has no respect for anyone and lacks social skills. So far the gun violence hasn't really risen, but the knife crime rate has rocketed and it's because the society values are changing, because we're not educating each other.

But it's still more safe as a society with that, then with the same crime rate from gun violence.

I have a friend that was as young, a troubled kid. When we became friends I became a little like a big brother to him. When I moved to London he started to go back to his old friends and one night he got into a fight. A little later he came back to settle the score with a gun. Luckily it misfired, but still what drove him to get the impulse to use it?

Now in Sweden you can choose when to go to jail (I know that might sound strange to you hahahah), within a certain time frame of course. So he came to me in London to clear his thoughts and get a perspective (I know this seems even stranger - to let a convicted man travel out of the country hahaha). Anyway, I asked him why he did it. He answered, well I was only gonna shoot him in his leg.
So I had to sit down with this grown man and teach him some values, because he had yet again become all screwed up. So yes I believe it all comes down to education, as in what we teach each other and our children. How our values are implemented into the society we live in.

(After that he went back and served his sentence)

You mentioned that you had a friend that died in a car accident, I'm sorry about that.

But if you take in account the daily need and frequent use of cars and then count the amount of accidents from that - to the daily need of guns, I'll think you'll find that the statistics will change.

 

[(real)filmmaker1977]

Please stop pretending it's some violence-free utopia with no guns. My great uncle was robbed at gun-point, in his shop in Trier, in 2003 -- you know, that little city in Germany that's real touristy and claims to be the oldest city. :angry01:

This argument is fallacious. You cannot compare apples to oranges.

There are statistics or are we missing something over here?

Edit:
I'm seeing now that others such as Fredrik are thinking the same as me (as far as statistics is concerned, for example).
It shouldn't be just by mere luck. :glare:

 

[Alan Skinner]

And yes there's a hunting tradition in Europe that is very large and old, but in most country's you do need to earn your license to hunt. Can't speak for them all of course. There's also regulations in what firearms your allowed to hunt with, which I do believe is more strict than the US (could be wrong, but I doubt that). Hunting is very regulated (don't know about the states).

Yes, we have hunting rules as well. 48 of 50 States require that you pass a 12 hour safety training course before you are allowed to purchase a hunting license and all of our hunting requires particular permits for each type and limited number of game taken. Contrarty to what many believe, it is exactly these fees that we, as hunters, pay that created the funds to study and manage the wildlife. If there were no regulation, all game would have been hunted out long ago. From fish species to the largest game animals, the hunter pays for almost all wildlife management.

And yes, in response to an earlier message, we have a mindset here in the States that we could, if we have to some day, effect a "regime change" right here at home. That day always looks closer and closer to me.

 

[Priyesh P.]

Why would people that are armed be scared, we are the ones with the guns. What do we have to be scared about. Its funny that you joke around with public intoxication. I've seen all manner of problems because people are drunk and out on the streets. I've seen people drunk attacking everyone that happened to be in their eye line. Someone was also beaten to death in front of the theater I worked at in high school because the two guys were drunk.

Nobody buys a gun if he/she doesn`t feel insecure, weak or feared. It`s a vague and diffuse fear made up by people who have a financial interest in it. But somehow I think it`s ok, it also supports the european weapons industries and secures our jobs. As long as that stuff is used over there it`s totally ok.

 

[e h jones]

and this is about red cameras?

and this is about red cameras?

How is this related to red in any way?
Go to a political forum and rant away.
When we talk about shooting we mean frames not bullets.

 

[Jeff Kilgroe]

Nobody buys a gun if he/she doesn`t feel insecure, weak or feared.

Can't agree with that. Guns are bought for a variety of purposes. A friend of mine collects vintage rifles, many of them antiques, many of them worth lots of money to collectors. He has never fired most of them, keeps them locked up in a climate-controlled vault. He loves everything about their history, craftsmanship, etc.. I'm somewhat of a collector myself, I don't have much, but what I do have is really damn cool. I have a matching set of pistol pairs -- his and hers Deringers from 1876, United States Centennial commemorative editions. Yes, they are over 120 years old. The lady Deringer models are gilded with carved ivory. I also have a corset with holster pockets for these pistols from about the same time period -- still older than 1900. The men's Deringer set has silver plated accents on blued steal with hand-carved mahogany grips. They are actually worth more to most collectors than the Lady Deringers because most men of the time period actually carried them, so it's harder to find a set in such condition. Mine are nearly perfect, one of the two pistols has been fired. I have guns that carry special meaning in our family. Like my great, great, great grandfather's rifle he carried in the early 1800's when he traveled west to homestead, I still have his saddle too.

People don't buy an AR-15 with auto conversion kit because they feel threatened or scared. They buy it because they think it's cool and they want to really f*ck something up when target shooting.

 

[Andrew Walker]

This is indeed interesting!

I live in Sweden - perhaps one of the safest countries in the world. Although the last five years I've noticed an increase in crime - especially with heavy arms.

I, like others - am against weapons in any form (for personal use) BUT - I'm starting to see the American side of this. I'm not going to pretend I have any knowledge about your rights or your society - I only acknowledge that there is a difference that I don't understand. But I still don't think guns are the answer to any problem.

So when a group of people come up to your car and start pulling you out of it to beat on and/or kill you. You still don't see a reason for it? Cops can't be every where to stop every crime and to rely on them or anyone else for your self defense is a mistake that could cost you your life.

But I would like to share my view - so any American can tell me how they view my thoughts and why I'm incorrect in regard to their reality - I want to grow and get a better understanding. I'm not saying you are wrong - I only try to find faulty logic viewed from my reality.

In regards to "Guns kill people, but so do bats and knives"
American argument: Knives and baseball bats kill people just as easily as guns do.
My thought: If I had a knife or a bat - and went up against a guy with a gun - I'd say the odds are in his favour - thus the saying don't bring a knife to a gun fight. Guns are indeed easier to kill with then knives or bats.

Of course guns are easier to kill with. But people can die from getting stabbed the same way they can from getting shot.

In regards to "I need a gun to feel free - liberated"
American argument: I need a gun to protect myself from XXXX threat.
My thought: Where is your liberty or freedom when your random thug with easy access to guns due to a flooded (but illegal) market kills your child/spouse in a random event where you are not present? The easy access to guns in america makes it easier for the bad guys to do what they want to do. Being able to buy a gun may give you freedom - but your random opponent can acquire one just as easy - that levels out the playing field giving you equal freedom or depending your viewing perspective, deprived freedom.

The criminals will always be able to get guns and if its not guns then it will be knives. The idea is to be as best prepared as you can be for the type of situation that you might find yourself in. I understand that I cannot be everywhere to protect everyone that I care about. So I train them on how to use a gun to defend themselves and hopefully that is enough.

 

[Noah Kadner]

How is this related to red in any way?
Go to a political forum and rant away.
When we talk about shooting we mean frames not bullets.

And now we're talking first amendment issues. Though of course this is a privately owned forum so let's not get carried away with that, if the mods remove this thread so be it....

I happen to think this is a good forum discussion topic because it's an important issue and there are good pros and cons to the argument. I also think folks are discussing this respectfully and thoughtfully for the most part. That some nicely shot RED footage is the flashpoint for this discussion makes it all the more relevant.

Noah

 

[Andrew Walker]

Nobody buys a gun if he/she doesn`t feel insecure, weak or feared. It`s a vague and diffuse fear made up by people who have a financial interest in it. But somehow I think it`s ok, it also supports the european weapons industries and secures our jobs. As long as that stuff is used over there it`s totally ok.

So me wanting to protect myself shows that I am weak and fearful of others...that's a very interesting look at me being armed. So I couldn't be armed to protect myself from others that would do me harm. I'm not sure what fairy tale land you live in but there are people out there that will kill you for no other reason than you just happen to be there when the thought enters into their mind. Or you say something to someone on the street and they freak out and attack you. I know the type of world we live in and I try my best to survive in it.

I didn't live in fear of others before I had a gun and I sure as hell don't live in fear now that I have a couple. If anything learning about firearms has gotten rid of my aversion towards firearms. Its amazing that once you learn about something you are told to fear by others, the fear goes away and is replaced by curiosity of what kind of gun is that.

 

[Andrew Walker]

And now we're talking first amendment issues. Though of course this is a privately owned forum so let's not get carried away with that, if the mods remove this thread so be it....

I happen to think this is a good forum discussion topic because it's an important issue and there are good pros and cons to the argument. I also think folks are discussing this respectfully and thoughtfully for the most part. That some nicely shot RED footage is the flashpoint for this discussion makes it all the more relevant.

Noah

I'm glad that my footage could spark such a healthy debate. But if anyone has any questions about the footage please ask.

 

[Fredrik Callinggard]

That day always looks closer and closer to me.

Why? If I may ask.

 

[FMG battery]

and about civilization?..

 

[NewsGroupPhotos]

Gun rights ain't about hunting.

My wife's Concealed Carry Permit and her 9mm is the only thing that makes her, a little 110lb. redhead, equal to a 225lb rapist.

Most of the people I see at my local gun range are women.
5'2" 100 lbs. and they can handle 45's as good as any man.

 

[Eirik Tyrihjel]

I think what we have here is a huge collision of mindsets, and cultures.

I am not going to tell my american friends what weapon laws they should have. I just want to try and give a Norwegian (European?) perspective for those who are willing to try and see it.

I just react to the footage from my cultural stand point, and what I see based on how I was brought up and where I live.
And what I see is a machine that is engineered, designed and refined to take human lives as efficiently as possible, this is no deerhunting rifle - this is no toy, it is an instrument of death, intimidation and power. Whoever holds it has the power to kill whoever and whatever he comes across.

Now, as this thread has thought us, most americans see it quite differently, and I am glad for that perspective, it is good to understand why people think the way they think... Hey, they didn´t call it the wild west for nothing right?
So I realise that on this matter the US is different from what I prefer, but it´s not my business - but this is an international forum and I can always tell you how things are where I live (If you care to read):

I have never met a fellow norwegian who gave an expression that he wanted a firearm to feel safe, nobody thinks like that here - people have weapons - sure.
We have a lot of hunters here, and they have to pass an extensive course, where they have to prove that they can identify any huntable (and not huntable) object, as well as shooting skills... it takes serious effort. Still lots of people love to hunt and go through the trouble.
But in Norway you can not go into a store and buy a handgun, you can buy a handgun but it´s a lengthy process... lenghty....

Everyone owning a gun/handgun/firearm must keep them locked up in a gun-safe - by the way, is it like that in the US?

In Norway not even the cops are armed!!! (they do have access to arms in their cars, it is in a locked suitcase)

Even though we both live civilised modern lives with our computers, cars and our REDs, there are huge cultural differnces in some regards and it´s just the way it is.

As for guns, I feel a lot safer in the streets knowing that they are very very rare, than I would feel if I was armed and every other person (potential maniac) was, but that´s just me.

Last year the odds of me beeing murdered was about 100.000 to 0,78 - compared to an americans odds of 100.000 to 5,7 (I know an important factor here is were you live and walk etc etc...)

And lastly a little on my (weapons)background: I am proud to have put in a year of service in the Norwegian Airforce, and so I have had extensive gun training, and YES firing guns IS fun!

Just trying to give a perspective here that is: there is a huge cultural difference between Europe and the USA on this subject, and that can easily be forgotten.

BTW: I loved the look of the footage, if had been from a fictional film, I wouldn´t have reacted as much as when it is a sales video for a company that makes the things...

Keep up the good work, and have fun firing your guns safely!

 

[Cristina S]

Yes, the differences are easily identified. Compare your friendly avatar with another one pointing a gun to any reader here (including the pro-gun buddies).

 

[Fredrik Callinggard]

Its amazing that once you learn about something you are told to fear by others, the fear goes away and is replaced by curiosity of what kind of gun is that.

Actually that is quite ironic, not against you Drew, but that from our perspective it's more that you're told to fear each other and therefor need a gun :biggrin:

I understand your arguments, but it's also those arguments that I believe to be catch 22.

 

[Salem Kapic]

Yes, the differences are easily identified. Compare your friendly avatar with another one pointing a gun to any reader here (including the pro-gun buddies).

quite disturbing !

but Obama wins!

 

[Andrew Walker]

quite disturbing !

but Obama wins!

This is why I've been stockpiling ammo and guns. Plus you save when you buy in bulk.