Weapon: Swappable Sensor?

[Ryan Sauve]

Sorry if this has been discussed elsewhere but has RED or anyone else mentioned if the sensor will be swappable in this new Weapon body (something similar to the URSA)? Would make a future upgrade to the next sensor a lot easier and potentially economical for everyone (users and RED) wouldn't it? It would be great if we didn't have to send our cameras back when the time came to upgrade the sensor. I'm asking because I had to rent for several days while my Epic was off being Dragonized, which increased the "real" cost of the upgrade by almost $2k. Thank you and splendid merriments to all.

 

[Terry VerHaar]

I am sure that is possible, and IMO, a really great idea. So far, however, sensor swaps have also been accompanied by board upgrades/swaps so the process has been a little more complicated. But, as we all know, around here everything is subject to change!

 

[ryan peters castañeda]

Yes, thats why you have to upgrade to Dragon, Weapon is a body upgrade. Red will take your Epic or Scarlet Dragon, take the sensor out and transplant it to the weapon body. The next upgrade after that will be a sensor upgrade, meaning that red will take the dragon sensor out of the weapon body and replace it with the next amazing sensor.

 

[Ryan Sauve]

So far, however, sensor swaps have also been accompanied by board upgrades/swaps so the process has been a little more complicated.

True, but if the URSA can do it, I'm sure RED can probably figure something out, especially if they've already started working on the next sensor. Here's hoping for super-modularity.

 

[Ryan Sauve]

...red will take the dragon sensor out of the weapon body and replace it with the next amazing sensor.

But if RED didn't have to take receipt of the Dragon... if all they had to do was mail us the updated sensor and then we do the switch ourselves (like the current OLPF setup), negating the need to mail our cameras in, that would be pretty sweet.

 

[ryan peters castañeda]

The URSA is essential a giant mother board with a 10inch monitor. They got around having to go in to the camera by placing the sensor block on a separate machine. This explains why the URSA is so massive.
Also if you think about it, the URSA is an upgraded Cinema Camera- and for those who got the cinema or the 4k early, they still have to buy a new URSA to get that upgrade.
Also on a technical side, URSA has no raw compression, creating a nightmare for raw 4k post production.

What ever inchonvieneces the "RED" way has, they still offer more, better, faster & cheeper if you look at the overall value of their tech.
I don't mind having to send the camera in, as long as it gets the best professional service in can get. Im not sure I would trust my studio or apartment to be clean enough to do that kind
of surgery on my camera.

I also like the small profile of the epic/scarlet line, compared to other bulkier camera packages.

Something to think about

 

[Antony Newman]

IMHO : Getting a camera Evergreened & health-checked prior to sensor upgrades is pivotal to the process.

AJ

 

[Bob Gundu]

A future bigger sensor will always require new boards to accommodate the higher CPU demands. I doubt very much that there will ever be a DIY sensor upgrade kit.

 

[Antony Newman]

If Red manage half of the (existing) board miniaturisation that Apple pulled out of the hat with the new 2015 MacBook ... I would be very impressed.

AJ

 

[Robert Ruffo New]

The URSA is essential a giant mother board with a 10inch monitor. They got around having to go in to the camera by placing the sensor block on a separate machine. This explains why the URSA is so massive.
Also if you think about it, the URSA is an upgraded Cinema Camera- and for those who got the cinema or the 4k early, they still have to buy a new URSA to get that upgrade.
Also on a technical side, URSA has no raw compression, creating a nightmare for raw 4k post production.

What ever inchonvieneces the "RED" way has, they still offer more, better, faster & cheeper if you look at the overall value of their tech.
I don't mind having to send the camera in, as long as it gets the best professional service in can get. Im not sure I would trust my studio or apartment to be clean enough to do that kind
of surgery on my camera.

I also like the small profile of the epic/scarlet line, compared to other bulkier camera packages.

Something to think about

Agreed. You know what else URSA does not have? AN OLPF and the ability to adjust backfocus. It's a prosumer/student cam, not really professional, at a price close to Scarlet. Red is much, much better value.

 

[ryan peters castañeda]

Agreed. You know what else URSA does not have? AN OLPF and the ability to adjust backfocus. It's a prosumer/student cam, not really professional, at a price close to Scarlet. Red is much, much better value.

All true, though one could, if they had a huge RAID produce professional 4k work with the URSA. The lower price point of the URSA, comes with higher post spending. The Red line, R1, Scarlet, Epic have a powerful advantage in compressed raw, amazing image quality at cost effective bit rates and footage length of time. It's difficult to even compare the two, since they have such different features and strengths.

Not all 4k is alike, not all camera are alike. The great thing about being an independent, professional, student filmmaker in 2015, is the technology available, enabling our dreams and aspirations.

No one camera does it all, specific utility and functionality are part of the design.
Example: If I were shooting an event in a small nightclub with dim lighting and (web only) delivery, would probably go with a canon C100 or 300, better in ENG style situations. For this type of production, 1080p is just fine.
Anything else that allowed for lighting and grip, would go with Epic Dragon or Scarlet Dragon- Skin tones, color, size, depth, are truly amazing. The Scarlet hungers for a lot of light.

 

[Brian Merlen]

True, but if the URSA can do it, I'm sure RED can probably figure something out, especially if they've already started working on the next sensor. Here's hoping for super-modularity.

but in reds road map the sensors get bigger, technology changes and throughput changes, these things can never truly be a form factor forever,even with URSA...and BMCC has so many problems unresolved I don't really trust their whole line. The moire on a shoot I just did with two of them burns my eyes, our colorist can't make it match the Red with a one light and has no time to resolve track the hell out of it like I suggested... So using them as an example when their cameras have so many issues is not great, if anything they designed and built both sensors at once at BM and just want double dip on you or something sketchy. the board change in red, cuz they have to, no camera will ever really be forever upgradable but trading in is the same thing, form factor changes don't matter, the red one to epic was a good change, this might be on the scale of that even!

 

[Joshua Cadmium]

I know this thread isn't about Blackmagic cameras, but just to provide some additional info:

- URSA does has 3:1 Raw Compression.
- The PL mount URSA (and the Production Camera) can adjust backfocus by shimming the mount. Blackmagic even sells a stainless steel shim kit themselves.
- The Cinema and Pocket Cameras do have problems with moire, but there is an aftermarket OLPF which greatly reduces the issue.

 

[Karim D. Ghantous]

Not a bad idea. Ricoh's GXR has swappable sensor modules, as well as matched sensor+lens modules. Here's a review of the matched modules:

http://www.stevehuffphoto.com/2010/...camera-review-with-the-28mm-and-50mm-modules/

Here is a review of the Leica M module:

http://www.stevehuffphoto.com/2011/09/28/the-ricoh-gxr-a12-m-mount-module-review-by-ashwin-rao/

AFAIK, this kind of arrangement wouldn't work very well with RED cameras, but I might be mistaken.

in a world of soccer moms shooting S35, some of us need Full Frame 35 or 65/70...anything to change it up and still be bleeding edge, right? high frame rates are cool too I'm down for whatever weapon and future reds have its all cool with me

Well if you want footage which is unique and looks good, go anamorphic. Even people who love anamorphic stay away from it, as it is either very expensive or very difficult to use. That's a good thing, as you'll be in a minority.

I looked at the practical options for photographic use and let me tell you, there aren't many. I think I've almost cracked the 'formula' for practical anamorphic photography, and I'll share it if it works, and when I get around to it.

 

[Elsie N]

I would argue that swappable OLPFs are essentially equivalent to swappable sensors.

And they are financially efficient.

 

[Brian Merlen]

Im buying kowas as my first pl set, so I'm all about a unique look

Not a bad idea. Ricoh's GXR has swappable sensor modules, as well as matched sensor+lens modules. Here's a review of the matched modules:

http://www.stevehuffphoto.com/2010/...camera-review-with-the-28mm-and-50mm-modules/

Here is a review of the Leica M module:

http://www.stevehuffphoto.com/2011/09/28/the-ricoh-gxr-a12-m-mount-module-review-by-ashwin-rao/

AFAIK, this kind of arrangement wouldn't work very well with RED cameras, but I might be mistaken.


Well if you want footage which is unique and looks good, go anamorphic. Even people who love anamorphic stay away from it, as it is either very expensive or very difficult to use. That's a good thing, as you'll be in a minority.

I looked at the practical options for photographic use and let me tell you, there aren't many. I think I've almost cracked the 'formula' for practical anamorphic photography, and I'll share it if it works, and when I get around to it.