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Weapon Rolling shutter ?

Rui Guerra

Rui Guerra

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Hi all,

The Weapon Magnesium have a rolling shutter or a global shutter?

I'm no sure, but from the learn center in RED's website, I think I understood it is a rolling shutter (they mentioned its the standard for a long time and that they have a PL Motion mount when need for a global shutter).

Thanks!
 
I think all Red cameras have rolling shutter unless you use the motion mount. Then you can choose between soft and hard global shutter as well as rolling. The motion mount comes in EF as well as PL.
 
Nick Morrison said:
To be clear, rolling shutter symptoms are not something that ever really comes up on Dragon. The camera's processing is so fast, it's pretty much a non issue for us.
Click to expand...

That seems a little convenient as a response.
No reason to have a motion mount then, right ?
 
C. Burkhart said:
That seems a little convenient as a response.
No reason to have a motion mount then, right ?
Click to expand...

I really only notice it on flashes. Sometimes you get a half flash on screen. Skew and jello are the non-issue in my opinion.

Motion mount also gives you variable ND, what most people use it for I would say.
 
Motion Mount is a must for strobe lights, flashes and things like that. Fast pans on Dragon look decent, likely even tighter on Weapon. I'm curious if anyone would do a side-by-side test.
 
C. Burkhart said:
That seems a little convenient as a response.
No reason to have a motion mount then, right ?
Click to expand...

Im saying this as a Motion Mount owner.

We don't use Motion Mount to clean up rolling shutter.

We use Motion Mount as BEHIND THE LENS ND, which optically seems to be the cleanest place to place ND.

Motion Mount footage outdoors looks much better/cleaner/easier to grade to us...than using any type of ND (even Firecrest). Especially on long lenses.
 
Com on guys. the camera has a normal rolling shutter, it´s very much an issue as it cause huge jello effect when post stabilizing shots. Also the motion mount if far from being a global shutter it´s a global variable nd but it does not close down to black just close down a couple of stops so no (I shot with it my self) motion mount do not prevent half frame flashes ( I had to paint those out as always), and motion mount does not prevent jelly effect, But it helps a bit... however motion mount add a sine wave to the motion blur so you dont get the square wave motion blur... that alone is possibly more preferred than a global square shutter.

But saying a global shutter is not needed are or asked for, is a lie. We shoot a lot of acction stuff over cranked by x4 with 360 shutter, then stab and compound over two frames just to get less of this issue... it´s quite a work around and I would not do it if the rolling shutter was no issue.

Still for a lot of stuff the rolling shutter is no problem but saying it´s not there or that the motion mount solves it is simply not right. Its there and its not sovled with the motion mount.

So.

Motion mount help a bit.

Rolling shutter is there even though the redraw is faster than most other cameras.

You can over crank by 4 with 360 shutter, stabilize in post and then compound over 2 and then speed 200% to work around half the problem.... thats what I do right now with the stuff we shot today, it´s 3 o clock at night and yes jelly all over the place :)
 
Yep it's there and it's visible on RED and ARRI. Whenever I'm watching a really good looking film and I'm not sure if it's film or film emulation, I always know once they do a whip pan because the vertical lines sheer.

To me it's one of the final things missing from digital. We're making 'move'ies and the motion is a critical aspect of the aesthetic. Even when it's subtle, read-reset of CMOS upsets the feel of the image.

Perhaps one day it will be a desired look.

'Early video look' - highly desirable :-D
 
Björn Benckert said:
You can over crank by 4 with 360 shutter, stabilize in post and then compound over 2 and then speed 200% to work around half the problem...
Click to expand...

Thanks Björn,

is the resulting motion rendition looking like being shot @ 90° shutter or like 180° but "smoother"?
 
Alvise Tedesco said:
Really??? What about strobe lights? I thought renting a motion mount was all I needed
Click to expand...


Isn't it possible to tweak flashes and strobes to work with a certain frame rate? I understand if being on a documentary location makes it hard, but for feature films I suggest changing the light setup/settings.
 
Christoffer Glans said:
Isn't it possible to tweak flashes and strobes to work with a certain frame rate? I understand if being on a documentary location makes it hard, but for feature films I suggest changing the light setup/settings.
Click to expand...


Then you need to run a cable with sync from your CTR port to the strobes. And your stobe need to be fast and synced accurately so it flash when the sensor is not redrawing.

Might be difficult if shooting people with camera flashes and such.



Alvise Tedesco said:
Really??? What about strobe lights? I thought renting a motion mount was all I needed
Click to expand...

Think of it as a ND 9 that fades in and out... if your flash is strong for sure it shine through that ND and cause a teared frame if its exposing while redraw.



oliver imfeld said:
@ Bjorn: could you post a link to the project you're working on right now as i'm highly interested in your process ?

thx
o
Click to expand...


Can not show what I haven now its not my material and I signed an NDA. But it´ s helmut camera stuff Camera on helmut, and biking fast trough the forest. Kind of like a glorified go pro thing. :)

Tommaso Alvisi said:
Thanks Björn,

is the resulting motion rendition looking like being shot @ 90° shutter or like 180° but "smoother"?
Click to expand...

basically what the trick does it is that you blend frame 1 and 2 into one after the shot is stabilised then you remove frame 3 and 4 and then you mix 5 and 6 and so on. all from a 100fps 360shutter source. That gives you a 180 deg shutter but the frames (that are made from 2 out of 4 360 10fps frames) are shake corrected before blended so you only get half the shake motion blur but the correct motion blur for everything else.
 
Björn Benckert said:
basically what the trick does it is that you blend frame 1 and 2 into one after the shot is stabilised then you remove frame 3 and 4 and then you mix 5 and 6 and so on. all from a 100fps 360shutter source. That gives you a 180 deg shutter but the frames (that are made from 2 out of 4 360 10fps frames) are shake corrected before blended so you only get half the shake motion blur but the correct motion blur for everything else.
Click to expand...

I think you could practically do all of that in camera, just frame average 2 frames from 96fps with a 24fps project rate (or 100 and 25fps), and double the clip's speed in the editor? Makes a lot of sense actually. Is stabilizing the frames before blending necessary?

edit; thought about it some more, yes I guess you would need to stabilize first.
 
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I've never noticed it in 24fps footage except whip pans. I've noticed the rolling shutter getting pretty bad at 100fps 6k though.
 
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