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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Weapon 8k Queue

Hi Peter,

I would be interested in a Helium VV. I'm surprised that hasn't been announced yet. Even if to get some of the pressure of the Dragon VV program. I have seven coming, I would mix and match a few
 
Peter Lyons Collister said:
I am going to ask a question here and it really just comes from a curiosity standpoint:

How many of you/us would be interested in a VV sized HELIUM sensor instead of the Dragon/ And I mean a scalable sensor so it might be 6K, 8K, 10K with the pixels scaled to fit.

I am still a Dragon guy (because I love skin tones) but with what Graeme has done with the science maybe Helium is the future.....

I have no answer but just saying......
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If it were a straight swap and could be shipped sooner, I would be interested.

Like you, Dragon is the devil I know but I trust Graeme will tame the Helium sensor to Dragon reliability.
 
Definitely would take a Helium VV! As my other posts already mentioned -- more pixels is better for some things. Helium VV gives us everything we have with 8K Helium now plus the ability to capture the larger frame size, although at higher resolution. As for the scaling, I think that's best left for post processing.

Helium and Dragon are different animals for sure and I think Helium is, or will be, the superior sensor once the software and firmware mature a bit more. Helium already has some advantages now.
 
Heh, just saw the FB post. I've heard some chatter/ rumors about a VV Helium since before NAB. I think a lot of people are wishing and hoping. I know we're just spitballing here in this thread and talking hypothetically, surprised that people are going to bug Jarred or the guys at RED to see if they can get a sneak peak of a hypothetical product.

For such a product to exist we would also need larger and faster media, will probably have to wait for the next iteration of the other camera internals for more processing power. 11.5K is yet again another huge step up from 8K.

If my comments here gave anyone a false impression that a new VV Helium sensor/ camera existed, then I'm sorry. I'm sure we'll get something like that at some point. After all the 8K VV Dragon sensor will eventually have to evolve into something else.
 
Jeff Kilgroe said:
Heh, just saw the FB post. I've heard some chatter/ rumors about a VV Helium since before NAB. I think a lot of people are wishing and hoping. I know we're just spitballing here in this thread and talking hypothetically, surprised that people are going to bug Jarred or the guys at RED to see if they can get a sneak peak of a hypothetical product.

For such a product to exist we would also need larger and faster media, will probably have to wait for the next iteration of the other camera internals for more processing power. 11.5K is yet again another huge step up from 8K.

If my comments here gave anyone a false impression that a new VV Helium sensor/ camera existed, then I'm sorry. I'm sure we'll get something like that at some point. After all the 8K VV Dragon sensor will eventually have to evolve into something else.
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I'm confident that you, like me and Vladimir, were just responding to Peter's post (where he emphasized he was just asking the question out of curiosity) in a manner that maybe would suggest to RED where we would like for things to go.

If anything, the mere fact it was Peter asking the question may have suggested to some that he had heard rumors... which may have turned out to be rumors of rumors.
 
Jeff Kilgroe said:
Heh, just saw the FB post. I've heard some chatter/ rumors about a VV Helium since before NAB. I think a lot of people are wishing and hoping. I know we're just spitballing here in this thread and talking hypothetically, surprised that people are going to bug Jarred or the guys at RED to see if they can get a sneak peak of a hypothetical product.

For such a product to exist we would also need larger and faster media, will probably have to wait for the next iteration of the other camera internals for more processing power. 11.5K is yet again another huge step up from 8K.

If my comments here gave anyone a false impression that a new VV Helium sensor/ camera existed, then I'm sorry. I'm sure we'll get something like that at some point. After all the 8K VV Dragon sensor will eventually have to evolve into something else.
Click to expand...

heh heh no worries at all man.. i didn't even see this thread before my post, and many people pointed me to Peter Collister's post afterwards as the guy who started the rumor so it wasn't you at all. And the rumor didn't really bother me at all, the requests just started rolling in like crazy so wanted to nip it in the bud.

At any rate... my post was more about tradeshows rather than rumors anyways so it's all good.....
 
Jarred Land said:
heh heh no worries at all man.. i didn't even see this thread before my post, and many people pointed me to Peter Collister's post afterwards as the guy who started the rumor so it wasn't you at all. And the rumor didn't really bother me at all, the requests just started rolling in like crazy so wanted to nip it in the bud.

At any rate... my post was more about tradeshows rather than rumors anyways so it's all good.....
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Ha ha, good then I'm safe too :)

I only answer with a simple "Inevitably" there will be a larger then life Helium sensor coming :) (also because I really want one myself) not because I don't love the Dragon VV, because I do both on the Weapon and on the Millennium DXL, but it's just because I truly LOVE the Helium sensor :)
 
Yesterday is the past, tomorrow is the future, but today is a gift. That's why it's called the present.
 
OBTW... Happy Yo Momma, Yo Momma, Yo Momma DAY! to all the Yo Mommas out there.
 
Just to clarify since there seems to be speculation that I know of some new Helium tech:
We have two great RED sensor technologies; Dragon & Helium. Panavision has smartly thrown down with Dragon VV. Many others are super into Helium. I have no idea what Jarred and RED has up their sleeves for the future. I am just curious about what the future holds and my comments about POSSIBLE Helium scenarios was just that, speculation.

Sorry if some of you thought I had some inside track.
 
Jarred, like Jim parses his words carefully. '-)

Just sayin'.
 
Anyone looking to scoop up a Weapon, DroneNerds.com has stock.
 
VV dreams...

VV dreams...

It's been over 2 years since those of us in the 8K VV queue pre-paid our $10K (4 or 5 delivered AFAIK). We were warned in advance that the VV Dragon cuts were extremely difficult to manufacture. We understand that the deal with Panavision for VV chips for the Millennium DXL is important to RED and the entire RedUser community. I appreciate that Jarred has given us regular updates. It may not have been the news we wanted to hear, but at least we knew the score. I also recognize that nobody wants to get VV chip production improved more than RED, so whining is kind of like accusing them of not trying their best - that's jerky and unproductive.

I post today to ask about the situation; no bashing, no second guessing, no bitching because RED wanted to push the envelope - heck, that's one of their best attributes. It's about the situation as it stands. AFAIK, producing VV Dragon cuts is still an extremely low yield proposition - is there any reason to expect that to improve in 2017, or beyond? I certainly don't expect RED to publicly discuss their deal with Panavision, full stop. That said, as a pre-paid VV waiter, how do you not wonder how much impact the PV deal has on the timeline?

Some of us, me included, have wondered if perhaps RED might be pursuing any alternatives to VV Dragon cuts. Perhaps Helium tech could be used to make a 5 micron pitch sensor that would match Dragon in physical dimensions, thereby allowing a VV cut at 8K vs 11K-ish so current boards could handle the data. Perhaps there is an even newer sensor tech in R&D that will be offered to Dragon VV waiters first (gotta have a dream).

To be clear, I'm not "demanding" a full briefing on the situation. That said, 2 years in, what can you tell us?

1) Status quo: Enjoy the camera in your hand and we'll get VV to you when we can. (Still frustrating, but waiting is part of life and we were given fair warning.)
2) Course change: We never thought it would take this long to sort the yield issues, but since it has, we are working on an alternative that we are not yet ready to discuss publicly.
3) News: ???

Cheers - #19
 
If you want to see some VV images, take a look at what Clark has been shooting with my camera. He has only posted a small sample of what he has shot.

He has shot some really beautiful stuff. If anyone wants to try the VV, I am open to trade. I am looking for shots for my next UHD HDR test disc montage. I am trading time with camera in exchange for shots. Usually 10 x 10-second shots at 23.976 and another 10 at 59.94. I am planning a montage at each of those frame rates. I would like to get a diverse collection of material. I have someone doing underwater work and another in NY. I am planning a trip to Yellowstone this fall. I am looking for a lot of natural wide gamut material. I just shot some tulips in WA that are the most saturated red I have ever seen in nature.

Here is a 2020 export from RCX-P using IPP2. If I did not see this for myself, I would have thought someone cranked up the saturation. They really are this wide gamut. The yellow tulip actually goes to white along the edges in SDR. in HDR, it maintains full color. Really shows the beauty of HDR. Ignore the quality of the embedded thumbnail. That is just to show you what the CIE diagram is representing. The red tulips are beyond P3.
Tulip_2020.jpg
 
I suppose it's frustrating, but then again RED is giving (or has given most of us already) the 8K Helium upgrade to tide us over. And in reality it's the same camera, but with the newer sensor which fits in a similar sized package as 6K Dragon. If we take the VV upgrade, then we get the older sensor, but in a larger package. It's a tough call. Dragon VV gets us the larger frame size and more mature color science. Argh, what to do.. Hehe. ;)

Like I said above in this thread, I haven't been using my camera much. Well, until this week. I shot two commercials this week and will be using it on a personal pet project of mine for 10 days starting next week. So there's that. I'm going to take the VV upgrade and then decide which flavor of 8K I ultimately like the best.

...Sitting around complaining about not having my VV upgrade. That's like an elitist 1%'er first-world problem if there ever was one.
 
Thank you Blair for a concise, reasonable and polite post in regards to the VV wait. I believe many people share your concerns and your position and I don't think anyone believes Red is not working as hard as they can to fulfil these orders. While it is a first world problem and I do not lie in bed at night agonising over it I am concerned how it will pan out. Part of the problem as I see it is the product life or cycle of both sensors and camera bodies. Two years in it could be argued that the Weapon is on track to soon being half way through its top tier status and the next few years will see Arri, Red and others produce higher performance machines. While the Dragon sensor is still one of the best sensors available it is already being outperformed in specific areas by the Helium Sensor.
I do not have a clue what Red's roadmap is but surely in two to three years we will see a new generation of sensor and cameras? Again I have no concrete facts but the slow roll out means the VV dragon sensor is being in danger of being delivered close to the end of its product cycle? I am pretty certain Red knows this and they may have a cunning plan waiting for us.
 
I don't see it as a first world problem, its just a question on where things are at and with the Panavision deal it does make you wonder on the very low yield and if that effects the wait time when already been waiting quite some time.
 
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