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Was Jinnimag Thread Removed?

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Steve Sherrick

Steve Sherrick

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Did I miss something or was the Jinnimag thread completely removed from the site?

Perhaps it was mentioned why it had to be removed right before it was. Or am I just not seeing it? I'm trying to keep tabs on the developments with the mags as it is sure to come up in conversations with people I interface with in the production world and I wanted to stay on top of it.

Thanks!
 
I guess Jinni Tech’s third video was too much to handle for REDUSER open discussion. This is truly unfortunate, the most cynical form of damage control.
 
If the general videos were just talking about the guts and inner workings of the mags mods would have let it continue (and we did for a long time), but the last video is a bit too much of a tilted/jilted POV and bringing personal attacks towards individuals.

I let the thread run for a long time happily having discussions surrounding the topic, agreeing or disagreeing with whoever's POV.

But it's very different when a private individual is harassed and a client overseas calls you at 4:15am to tell you you're on YouTube.


To reiterate, personal attacks have no place on REDuser. Pros and cons of being a moderator on a public forum.

I've got a thick skin, but we've now diverged into some new territory where forum policy is mixing with the content being shared. This guy is looking to hurt people professionally and very literally trying to destroy not just a company, but a community as well.

Discuss away, but I wouldn't link this content here at all.
 
Phil, with all due respect, I think this is a big mistake. I understand wanting to take some heat off the situation from a PR perspective. And yes, some of the discussion had some moments of passive aggressiveness (and arguably just aggressiveness) from some Redusers. But I think an open dialogue is important too. I was trying to take in all of the information being presented by both sides. I thought RED had a right to defend themselves and correct information they thought was erroneous. Then it's up to endusers to come to whatever conclusion they want.

Now, maybe there is ongoing legal issues happening and this thread was taken down because of that. I don't know. But, if it's not that, I'm a bit disappointed by this decision. I think the key to this open forum is for both sides (RED/Moderators and Redusers) to stay professional, stay away from personal attacks, and have healthy debate. If that's happening, I can't see why an entire thread would be taken down, unless there is a legal reason. Otherwise, this doesn't look good. And it makes me less interested in posting if there's a chance the whole thing will just go away at some point.

Whatever the result of this situation with the mags, RED was built on the backs of this community. It would be unfortunate if it started to move in a negative direction. Communication is king. Transparency is king.

I also don't think it's a good look that you are speaking for RED here. And this is coming from someone who has been here since the beginning. I always value your input, the time you spend providing information. But there is almost no official statements being made form RED employees. Again, maybe a legal thing. But it just doesn't look good.

I want RED to succeed. I still use the cameras, even if I don't own the current lineup. I want RED's reputation to be solid. It's good for everybody. And I get this guy is causing problems for RED. But, regardless of the thread being up or not, this has made its way across the internet and I think it's worthwhile to have the discussion here, at what is the official portal of RED.

Now, to fellow Redusers. I encourage everyone to stay professional, respect people and their opinions and try to be objective as possible. Attacking Phil is not the way to go. Seeking answers to the questions being raised - fair enough. Just try to remember the human side of the equation too.
 
And to clarify a little bit, I know there is an official statement from RED (Jarred's). I just meant in the thread itself.
 
Good idea Phil!

I wouldn't care if it was me, but when it comes to people I consider friends, that line was crossed which is the reason I had to voice my opinion.
Isn't there a way that RED could flag those videos for infringing on existing IP?
 
Jinni didn’t say anything in that video that hadn’t been asked and answered in that thread. If the personal attack is on YouTube why remove the reduser thread? If the attack is in the thread remove the post. It looks like it’s deleted to silence the conversation.
 
How about remove the post, not the thread, +1 this does not look good

On a side note, I’d like to join the PR team, I could do no worse.......You can even pay me in battle tested items:biggrin:
 
This unfortunately has very little to do with RED and PR. Legalities, personal attacks, and the few other boundaries extended beyond are the issue here.

RED made an official statement to a media outlet, from the president of the company no less. Outside of their official response, I don't think anybody at RED will be making weekly statements outside of what's been clearly stated.

Again, feel free to discuss media costs and even the core technologies inside of them and whatever desires surrounding media you have moving forward. It's not even just me mentioned in the videos, but other real life people as well, filmmakers who literally shouldn't be dragged into whatever drama is being played out here.

The topic is fine, the method and execution is way off.
 
I'll preface by saying that calling out RED/Jarred for their statements is one thing--but that last video did overstep.

As a devil's advocate, if I understand correctly, Jinni's countersuit against RED claims that a user on REDuser doxxed Bruce (posted his personal info, phone number, and email) and that "Defendants [RED] did not remove this information or warn users to refrain from posting personal identifying information." and that users attacked him on various online forums and RED "did not discourage these users from doing so and took no action to prevent any such attacks in the future."

So it sounds like it's a bit personal and that it maybe didn't start with him?
 
jake blackstone said:
I'm pretty sure, the particular thread in question was taken down because it was specifically mentioned in the video released last night. Also, that thread contained the link to that latest video.
Click to expand...

Understood, I do get why this would make Phil and RED upset. It got personal. And I don't think it was necessary for it to get personal. In my humble opinion, if someone is curious about a topic like this and they investigate it and find out things they don't think are right, then there are ways one can go about it in a professional way to bring it to light. But in this case, there was the issue of selling his own version of mags, the lawsuit, etc. So, it's complicated no doubt. But it seems it hit a nerve with people, several members of this community, and that's where the open discussion part comes in.
 
Mestizo Devon said:
Wasn’t that stuff removed? I only saw the reference to you having a special/paid or compensated relationship w RED which is fine and I think everybody know it...
Click to expand...

Except I am not an employee and now need to deal with lawyers because some company/individual in the UK is putting my name on whatever that problem is. I'm a Director and DP who's been put in a rather trusted position to moderate discussion here on REDuser, also not paid, due to mutual respect and found a fondness for a community that I enjoyed contributing to. This literally started back when I was in the VFX side of things before I went full time out on my own.

Again, I'm not airing this, but my clients that I've worked in some cases for 20+ years to be on the level with are at jeopardy here, my name is being brought into things I have literally zero professional involvement in, and I understand why whatever people think I am is different than what I am doing professionally on a day to day basis.

Being a moderator on a real name forum is not easy, especially since I'm in this industry. Making unpopular decisions that sometimes even go against my personal feelings happens, but much like the statement you are even making, a line has been crossed that we can't go back from.


I personally shouldn't be discussing this online at this point as I've been advised not to, but as I mentioned this community as a whole is important to me. I hope you understand what's at stake in my world.
 
Josh Becker said:
I'll preface by saying that calling out RED/Jarred for their statements is one thing--but that last video did overstep.

As a devil's advocate, if I understand correctly, Jinni's countersuit against RED claims that a user on REDuser doxxed Bruce (posted his personal info, phone number, and email) and that "Defendants [RED] did not remove this information or warn users to refrain from posting personal identifying information." and that users attacked him on various online forums and RED "did not discourage these users from doing so and took no action to prevent any such attacks in the future."

So it sounds like it's a bit personal and that it maybe didn't start with him?
Click to expand...
I watched the corrected version, I guess the original only got 900 or so views...
 
Phil Holland said:
Except I am not an employee and now need to deal with lawyers because some company/individual in the UK is putting my name on whatever that problem is. I'm a Director and DP who's been put in a rather trusted position to moderate discussion here on REDuser, also not paid, due to mutual respect and found a fondness for a community that I enjoyed contributing to. This literally started back when I was in the VFX side of things before I went full time out on my own.

Again, I'm not airing this, but my clients that I've worked in some cases for 20+ years to be on the level with are at jeopardy here, my name is being brought into things I have literally zero professional involvement in, and I understand why whatever people think I am is different than what I am doing professionally on a day to day basis.

Being a moderator on a real name forum is not easy, especially since I'm in this industry. Making unpopular decisions that sometimes even go against my personal feelings happens, but much like the statement you are even making, a line has been crossed that we can't go back from.


I personally shouldn't be discussing this online at this point as I've been advised not to, but as I mentioned this community as a whole is important to me. I hope you understand what's at stake in my world.
Click to expand...
People who have known you and worked with you for 20 years, know you! I think people understand the position you are in don’t fault you for things out of your control. People will be critical of the choices and statements you make and that’s all good, keep moving. It seems like the guy has already corrected his over step.
 
An important point re supposed doxxing.

The Jinni Tech, now Jinni Technology guy was and is a company director in the UK.
As such your personal contact information is typically out there for all to see. It comes with the territory.
 
Summer was not over...

You put too much ego on this. Talking about lawyer. This as nothing to do about you.

I don’t like the way Jinni did and will continue to do his things but you shouldn’t take our freedom of speech.
 
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