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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Wanted: SF Bay Area DP w/ Red for Indie Film Investment Trailer

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bigdaddyral

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-( Project Synopsis )-

I will be shooting a five minute promotional trailer to present at investment meetings for a feature length independent film I'm producing. It's a romantic gross-out comedy called The Towel Boy that will be shooting in San Francisco. You can learn more about the project at:

http://www.thetowelboy.com

We were originally scheduled to shoot in November but have had to push the shoot date back and we will now be shooting Friday March 6th through Monday March 9th.

We have a great cast, some beautiful and iconic locations, and are going to make a great movie!


-( DP Information )-

I'm looking for a DP in the San Francisco Bay Area who owns, or has access to, one or more RedONE cameras to work with me to shoot the trailer and hopefully the film itself a few months later. The trailer shoot will be a fast paced 4 day shoot.

I'm looking for a bright polished image like that in films like American Pie, There's Something About Mary, and The 40 Year Old Virgin. I really want to "Wow!" potential investors with the quality that can be achieved on a micro budget.


-( Payment and Budget )-

1) We will have full production insurance for the shoot.
2) While the trailer shoot will be unpaid, the film shoot pay will be determined by the amount of financing we are able to secure.
3) Food, drinks, snacks, gas money, and parking will however be provided during the 4 day shoot.
4) There is no money available for travel or lodging if you're outside of the Bay Area.
5) I'm financing this trailer on my own from savings, credit, and my day job pay check, and I am not a wealthy guy. What I lack in money I make up for in passion, vision, and dedication.


-( RedOne Rental? )-

Additionally, if you are unable to work as DP but you are in the SF Bay Area and have a RedOne package you would be willing to rent to me for less than $250 a day, please let me know.

I know that's not much money, but it's all I can afford. And to even afford that I would have to beg, borrow, and steal $1000 dollars to pay for it as my budget is too tight as it is (And I may not be able to raise that money at all...). Which is why this is an unpaid job.


-( Contact Details )-

If you're interested please email me at aguilar DOT raul AT blindspotfilms DOT com with a link to where I can see your reel and some of your RedONE work.


-( Final Plea )-

I know that postings like these can be a crap shoot, this is my second in fact, so I really hope that some of you are interested. And if you have any questions, let me know and I will be happy to answer them privately or in this thread.

The film is going to be very funny and pushes the envelope for gross-out humor. Additionally, the concept is commercially viable and, if done well, I believe it has a real shot at success. Take a shot, it will be fun!

Thanks for your time!
 
While I can appreciate your position as we are all in this business becasue of our passion, it kind of sounds like you are giving DP's with Red cameras the least favorable deal. So if you DP and have your own camera you get paid nothing, but if you can just rent the camera then you get $250 day?
While I am all for independent film, micro budgets and getting your dream made I think you may want to reconsider your offer to DP's working on your set with over $40,000 of their own equipment.
 
here we go again...we need to flag these people...wait thats craigslist where this
pleaing belongs. As ive said before, and i mean it with respect. Why do No-Budget
producers/Directors assume the rest of the world should have the same passion for there projects as they do? The great bit is if you do the no-paying gig you "may" be the shooter on the feature.
good luck!
 
Hi rockyroad,

The budget is approximately $5000. All of which is going to insurance, city permit fees, location fees, cast & crew transportation, grip truck rental, food, gas, & parking, legal consultation, and props and costumes. Myself, the DP, the crew, and the cast are all working for free.


Hi Stefan,

The rental part of the post, more than anything, is to discourage getting emails offering to rent me a package for 2000 a day as there is no way I can afford it and I'd rather not waste those fine peoples time. Could I afford it I would welcome the offers! However I also know that $250 a day is nothing that anyone would realistically offer me and, unfortunately, probably not an amount of money that I could even raise if the offer were made. But if the highly unlikely offer came in, and no DP was available on those dates or something along those lines, I would try, likely in vain, to raise the money.

Believe me, I have such an abounding respect for what cinematographers do and the essential talent you bring to the table, that if I could offer a better deal I would. However I don't want to say that I can offer you $250 a day to shoot the trailer knowing that there is little chance that I could raise that money.


Hi sergue,

No disrespect taken. I don't assume that anyone will have the same passion for my project as me. I can only speak for myself. My hope is that maybe someone here will look at the project and, if their interest is sparked by something they see, that they may be interested in taking it on.

As for being the shooter on the feature as well, let me clarify. If we work together, and they are willing and available to shoot the feature, I would absolutely want them to be there. However I respect the fact that one can never foresee how these things go, and that the working experience may or may not turn out to be a pleasant one.

Ideally, whoever works with me on this trailer will be the same person to shoot the film. And ultimately, I'd like to shoot future films with them as well. I'm interested in building relationships.
 
bigDaddyral,
May I offer this? Why if its your investors that need to see something is the script not enough? Ok, understandably money people have been known to lack vision. But you do have 5000k, so why are you jumping to REDcinema format?. My brother just shot a decent MV on the 5d mkII and it looks fine for smallscreen viewing. Now you can pay a proper lighting cameraman to make it look amazing!!! Get your investor money and come back when you can afford and need to be on a filmout format....
again with all due respect!!!:innocent:
 
No disrespect to anyone on this forum, but I don't mind these types of posts. He's given some detail about the project, knows his limitations and has respectfully answered questions that have been thrown at him. Good.

I met with "bigdaddyral" in early December about the shoot to see if the project would meet my criteria for very low budget shooting gigs. In our meeting I found him well adjusted, organized, pleasant and had some vision. I asked him for some material (casting reels, examples of his previous work etc.) and he promptly sent those to me after our meeting.

Unfortunately, the timing and criteria didn't work out for us. If you're a shooter that doesn't have time for these types of projects, great, you're doing well. I'd ask that "bigdaddyral" really scrape and beg to find some pay for the DoP. Also, he shouldn't overly ding the DoP in the back-end deal because they were paid on the trailer. On these projects the DoP is the second hardest working dude on the set (and off). If they make your project look like a real film your investors will respond. Respect that.

Personally, I think the trailer is a good idea given the humor and the character acting involved. These types of comedies are so hard to pull off at the script level.
 
I too think this is better than tose typical and nauseating, COPY MEAL AND CREDIT CL posts, and I know a lot of DP's in Portland, OR who want feature film credit as they pay bills doing corporate stuff. So I think you will have some success here.

However, I do not see any reason to shoot this on RED, its a promo teaser. An EX-1
or other prosumer HD camera will work just as well, especially in the hands of a good DP.

I think you will have more success finding a the right DP, not limiting this to RED camera owners. You can alway shoot the feature on RED.

Good luck with your project, your great attitude and graciousness in dealing with negativity should be commended, not criticized.

Persistence and Determination are Omnipotent- Calvin Coolidge.

GOOD LUCK!
 
You're the Indie producer....Make it happen!!!

You're the Indie producer....Make it happen!!!

I agree with some of the users here...You could shoot the trailer on HX200 that's a pretty decent camera with very good film look traits using a 35mm adapters.

But by all means, if you can get a DP and RED One for the price you're asking...great...it just seems that a lot of users here that own cameras spent a pretty penny to get it and just trying to find "Paying" gigs to re-coup their investments.

So, $250 is a bit low with all those extras...I too understand you're dilemma and you'll just have to decide what more important with what you got.
5K is nothing to sneeze at...so just shoot what you can afford and then get the R1 for the feature. Or I would really look at your budget and see if you could trim some more...I know its hard...but if you are paying for location fees, possibly talk to the location owner or the city to see if you can get that waived...or pitch them that if I use your location now...when we come back I'll pay your double your rate. Possibly trim your trailer to 3min than 5mins. 2 mins of less shots can save you some dough and if you're really wanting the R1 camera...that could help out.

Remember you're independent...what indie director pays for city permits or location fees???...just cheat the shot. Maybe you should scale down the four day shoot to 2 or 3 days max. Legal consultation...maybe you could get some for free if you talked to them and when I sell the trailer or the next phase of pre-production...I could pay you. Remember, you are the indie producer...you have to come up with brilliant cheap ways to get your shots or your trailer...Its hard...but you can do it.
 
If you want to show footage about FROM a SF DP with a RED, we shot The Last Job on the RED with Mike Epple as Director of Photography.

Nothing wrong with getting in a production early if you feel it has potential.
 
bigdaddy...
You may want to consider adding a contract and profit participation to your prospective DP. After all you're asking the DP to invest as much in rate and equipment donations as the rest of the entire budget. Your creativity is worth quite a bit too, but 25% seems reasonable for a 50% investment given the circumstances, and a contract stating that said DP will be hired to shoot the feature or be bought out.
 
Evin has a good point here...Very good idea.

Its true...a DP's has his experience, knowledge and in this situation his camera and gear. This person you hire to be your DP will make the film or trailer sell.

It has worked many times...basically the trailer is a calling call for both of you. Unfortunately, you have to sacrifice some of the rewards...not saying you wouldn't but I see and heard of many indie directors shoot a trailer or a 5min short of the film...Investors love the look and the film, they get the money. Suddenly, they hire a completely different DP because now he has the cash to hire a so-called celebrity DP or well-known DP because now you are shooting a feature film and its a reality...before it was a pipe dream. Its a shame, but it has happened.
 
Evin Grant said:
bigdaddy...
You may want to consider adding a contract and profit participation to your prospective DP. After all you're asking the DP to invest as much in rate and equipment donations as the rest of the entire budget.
Click to expand...

Word.

After looking at the website I think there's enough there for a prospective investor to know what he's getting into. I'm not sure a trailer is going to help. It may actually hurt more than it helps since it's no budget. The investor's imagination is likely to be more optimistic.

Go out and sell it now IMHO.
 
I'm surprised he hasn't came out and talked about our ideas.
 
I've worked on these investor trailers before and they can be very good vehicles for getting the funding - but, make sure you are doing yourself more good than harm. If you're going to show them rather than tell them, than it really needs to be strong. Especially comedy. I would sink my money into acting talent (which it sounds like you have that) and a really good DP. In terms of format, that should be up to the discretion of the DP. If they feel that they can shoot this on an EX-1 and get your trailer to look good enough to sell the jokes/performances, and it saves you some money, then by all means go with that.

But as others have mentioned, make sure the contracts are solid. Never promise anything you can't back up with legal documentation. If a DP is willing to commit to your project for no/low fee, then give them the courtesy of a contract that states the terms you have both agreed to.

I have witnessed potential investors getting excited about actually seeing something tangible, but it can play against you if the trailer comes out less than their expectations. I suppose only you know how strong the material is and what you can get up on screen.

I wish you the best with the project, and feel free to PM me if you want to ask about my prior experience with this.
 
I have raised over $2.5M cash for feature films in the past 10 years and NEVER USED A PROMO TRAILER.

That includes raising $125K in Sept for a $200K feature
that was shot on RED.

"SOME DAYS ARE BETTER THAN OTHERS" directed by Matt McCormick and produced by David Cress and Neil Kopp, the latter won the Independent Spirit award for Wendy and Lucy and both of those guys were producers on Gus Van Sant's Paranoid Park... It also stars the lead singers of Slater Kinney and The Shins.

Not one mention of what the film is about yet... much less a trailer.

Do you see any correlation here as to why I raised the money so easily?

I also have NEVER given an investor a script. Most, have no clue how to read one... Synposis, and PASSION... sells investors.

and like or not. it is ALL ABOUT NAME TALENT... in some section ABOVE THE LINE.

My 4 most important CREW hires on any film (yes, in order of importance)

LINE PRODUCER
DP
SOUND OPERATOR
DIRECTOR (unless he is an established and distributed talent)

My friend Shawn Nelson on here also provided a RED Camera for a film that
shot a trailer at my studio... to raise money... and so far, he has not raised a dime. And this guy is a world renowned illustrator.

it is ALL ABOUT THE PACKAGE... because in the end, if YOU cant sell the movie, then more often than not, neither can a distributor...

Thats my 10 years plus and $2.5M worth... :)

But before you think that I think I know everything. I am also a guy who had a chance to invest in and produce SUPER TROOPERS... and I thought it was a cliched piece of crap script and also thought the filmmakers (Broken Lizard) first film, Puddle Cruiser was a sophomoric, unfunny amateur film.

Guess What? Super Troopers went on the gross over $25M domestic... and close to $100M so clearly, I know NOTHING about how to determine what a "good" movie is. :)

Turned out to be my teen daughters favorite movie that year...:ranting2:
 
Tim, this is a good point. The ones I've been involved with have always had names attached and that is a big selling point for people. One of them had a famous professional boxer in one of the roles and that got people's attention for better or for worse.

But, I also believe you could generate interest with a well done trailet that has lesser known actors. It just has to be really compelling, very well done. And as you said, the package is what sells people on it. A great script, letters of interest from name actor's agents, letters of interest from other investors, a good track record, and perhaps a really good trailer gives you a good step in the right direction for getting a film made. But even then, it can be hard.
 
I did not necessarily mean name "acting" talent, (Bella is a great example and there are many that defy that rule... that is what's great about indie filmmaking in general)

but I meant name above the line in some capacity producer, director, cast... and in some cases. DP's who have won awards
or shot successful films. And it is mostly about LUCK.

Laboring Under Correct Knowledge. L.U.C.K.

I am mixed on trailers, because if its not good, well, that speaks for itself, but moreso, if it is better than the finished product... yikes... you will never raise a dime from
that investor again...

All I want to tell people is ASSUME you are going to lose all their money, odds are you
will, even if you win Sundance. How will that change your relationship?

Do you want to live with that guilt? Do you want to be that guy or gal?

To me, its all about managing expectations... especially with investors...

There is no scientific formula to fund raising... but the best advice
ever is from Sam Raimi.

"If they don't cough up the green, make sure you dont leave their house until they cough up a name of someone they think will." circa 1984 after being asked how he funded Evil Dead.

I have used that mantra with much success. :)
 
1980-2000 .. worked on many,many,many promo's ... i only know of 1 promo that got funding .. from what i recall the promo got M Streep to say YES ... they then added a still photo of Streep in the promo ... no other known actor/face appeared in the promo .. the promo was for Silkwood (released 1983) ... originally it was going to be a movie of the week ...
 
First man on the list...!!!

First man on the list...!!!

Tim Whitcomb said:
I have raised over $2.5M cash for feature films in the past 10 years and NEVER USED A PROMO TRAILER.

That includes raising $125K in Sept for a $200K feature
that was shot on RED.

"SOME DAYS ARE BETTER THAN OTHERS" directed by Matt McCormick and produced by David Cress and Neil Kopp, the latter won the Independent Spirit award for Wendy and Lucy and both of those guys were producers on Gus Van Sant's Paranoid Park... It also stars the lead singers of Slater Kinney and The Shins.

Not one mention of what the film is about yet... much less a trailer.

Do you see any correlation here as to why I raised the money so easily?

I also have NEVER given an investor a script. Most, have no clue how to read one... Synposis, and PASSION... sells investors.

and like or not. it is ALL ABOUT NAME TALENT... in some section ABOVE THE LINE.

My 4 most important CREW hires on any film (yes, in order of importance)

LINE PRODUCER
DP
SOUND OPERATOR
DIRECTOR (unless he is an established and distributed talent)

My friend Shawn Nelson on here also provided a RED Camera for a film that
shot a trailer at my studio... to raise money... and so far, he has not raised a dime. And this guy is a world renowned illustrator.

it is ALL ABOUT THE PACKAGE... because in the end, if YOU cant sell the movie, then more often than not, neither can a distributor...

Thats my 10 years plus and $2.5M worth... :)

But before you think that I think I know everything. I am also a guy who had a chance to invest in and produce SUPER TROOPERS... and I thought it was a cliched piece of crap script and also thought the filmmakers (Broken Lizard) first film, Puddle Cruiser was a sophomoric, unfunny amateur film.

Guess What? Super Troopers went on the gross over $25M domestic... and close to $100M so clearly, I know NOTHING about how to determine what a "good" movie is. :)

Turned out to be my teen daughters favorite movie that year...:ranting2:
Click to expand...

Hi Tim,

You mentioned the 4 main positions you hire first. I'm curious why the line producer first? I understand the DP then the Sound guy? then the director..I think it would be the Director, DP, Line producer possibly the sound guy.

What is your secret raising capital? You mention the package? If you don't mind can you elaborate more on that aspect? Celebrities are hard to nail down...since you have to fight with their agent to read your work...or the package.

I'm curious...I think raising funds is a bit of an art! I've done it before many times but I can't say I'm as savvy as some of the members here much like you, Tim.

What's the magic stuff that work. Good for you not having to use a trailer or promo...that's bit of the magic packaging...!!! Nice...!!!

If you don't mind to talk bit about it.

Thanks.
 
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