Wanted: SF Bay Area DP w/ Red for Indie Film Investment Trailer

[bigdaddyral]

Wow...

Wow...

My apologies for taking so long to reply. I never expected this thread to spark so much discussion! But I am thankful it has and grateful for everyone’s feedback!

Due to a number of issues I’ve had to push the shoot date back to the weekend of April 24th to the 27th.

While the delays are disheartening I figure it’s better to do it right than to do it quickly.

I added an extra day, tentatively, to make room for location availability. As we are using so many locations, many of them have limited windows. The hope is that the shoot can all be scheduled on just three days, but if one or two locations need to be scheduled on the fourth, I wanted to leave some flexibility.

There were a lot of great posts and I want to respond to some of them now. See below.

If anyone is interested and available, please contact me. I’ve had several potential DPs but nothing has panned out yet. I’m still looking for someone.

If this inspires more dialogue, I will try to answer more promptly!

Because of the character count limit, I'll reply in two parts.

Part I

May I offer this? Why if its your investors that need to see something is the script not enough? Ok, understandably money people have been known to lack vision. But you do have 5000k, so why are you jumping to REDcinema format?. My brother just shot a decent MV on the 5d mkII and it looks fine for smallscreen viewing. Now you can pay a proper lighting cameraman to make it look amazing!!! Get your investor money and come back when you can afford and need to be on a filmout format.... again with all due respect!!!

As there are no guarantees, especially given the current state of the economy, I want to make as big an impact during my pitch as possible. You only get one first impression!

The reason I plan to shoot on the Red is to provide a genuine Proof of Concept where I can show them the quality of the final film. I would prefer not to bring them something of lower quality and ask them to see the potential of better quality given the right budget.

I want to give them as few reasons to say No as possible.

No disrespect to anyone on this forum, but I don't mind these types of posts. He's given some detail about the project, knows his limitations and has respectfully answered questions that have been thrown at him. Good.

I met with "bigdaddyral" in early December about the shoot to see if the project would meet my criteria for very low budget shooting gigs. In our meeting I found him well adjusted, organized, pleasant and had some vision. I asked him for some material (casting reels, examples of his previous work etc.) and he promptly sent those to me after our meeting.

Unfortunately, the timing and criteria didn't work out for us. If you're a shooter that doesn't have time for these types of projects, great, you're doing well. I'd ask that "bigdaddyral" really scrape and beg to find some pay for the DoP. Also, he shouldn't overly ding the DoP in the back-end deal because they were paid on the trailer. On these projects the DoP is the second hardest working dude on the set (and off). If they make your project look like a real film your investors will respond. Respect that.

Personally, I think the trailer is a good idea given the humor and the character acting involved. These types of comedies are so hard to pull off at the script level.

Thanks, Justin! I appreciate the support. I too enjoyed our meeting and found you to be pleasant, knowledgeable, and professional. I really hope to be able to work with you at some point in the future.

I personally find that the two most important people on set are the DP and the Sound Mixer. I think their jobs are much more important than mine. And I would have no interest in short changing anyone that was generous enough to offer their time and equipment to my cause.

I would feel too guilty to do so given that they are likely doing far more for me than I am for them.

Thanks again. You are a class act, sir!

I too think this is better than tose typical and nauseating, COPY MEAL AND CREDIT CL posts, and I know a lot of DP's in Portland, OR who want feature film credit as they pay bills doing corporate stuff. So I think you will have some success here.

However, I do not see any reason to shoot this on RED, its a promo teaser. An EX-1
or other prosumer HD camera will work just as well, especially in the hands of a good DP.

I think you will have more success finding a the right DP, not limiting this to RED camera owners. You can alway shoot the feature on RED.

Good luck with your project, your great attitude and graciousness in dealing with negativity should be commended, not criticized.

Persistence and Determination are Omnipotent- Calvin Coolidge.

GOOD LUCK!

Thanks for the kind words. It’s appreciated. I’m fairly level headed and so don’t get riled up easily by criticism, which helps with the hard task of getting feedback from fellow screenwriters in order to improve my scripts. I also like negative feedback, as it is far more useful than positive feedback!

As for shooting on a more cost effective format, again, my goal is to provide a Proof of Concept. And while it has been difficult finding a DP with a Red who is willing to work with me, my philosophy is that it’s better to do it right than to do it quickly.

While pushing the shoot dates back has been difficult for me, I believe the delays will ultimately bring about a better final product.

Thanks again, sir!

I agree with some of the users here...You could shoot the trailer on HX200 that's a pretty decent camera with very good film look traits using a 35mm adapters.

But by all means, if you can get a DP and RED One for the price you're asking...great...it just seems that a lot of users here that own cameras spent a pretty penny to get it and just trying to find "Paying" gigs to re-coup their investments.

So, $250 is a bit low with all those extras...I too understand you're dilemma and you'll just have to decide what more important with what you got.
5K is nothing to sneeze at...so just shoot what you can afford and then get the R1 for the feature. Or I would really look at your budget and see if you could trim some more...I know its hard...but if you are paying for location fees, possibly talk to the location owner or the city to see if you can get that waived...or pitch them that if I use your location now...when we come back I'll pay your double your rate. Possibly trim your trailer to 3min than 5mins. 2 mins of less shots can save you some dough and if you're really wanting the R1 camera...that could help out.

Remember you're independent...what indie director pays for city permits or location fees???...just cheat the shot. Maybe you should scale down the four day shoot to 2 or 3 days max. Legal consultation...maybe you could get some for free if you talked to them and when I sell the trailer or the next phase of pre-production...I could pay you. Remember, you are the indie producer...you have to come up with brilliant cheap ways to get your shots or your trailer...Its hard...but you can do it.

I considered shooting on the HVX200 until I decided I was going to shoot the feature on the Red. At that point, again, I decided to shoot the trailer on the Red.

Believe me, I wish I had more resources and could offer a proper pay check. And I fully understand that paying gigs are always more important than a gamble like this. But I figure closed mouths don’t get fed and there’s no harm in asking. You never know what will happen.

Thank you for the suggestions! I appreciate it. Most of those I am already doing. Thankfully I haven’t had to put aside too much for location fees, though I’m still negotiating with the locations right now.

I have considered cutting the trailer length down and am looking into that right now. Mostly to cut down on the number of company moves.

Thanks again for the suggestions and the words of support!

If you want to show footage about FROM a SF DP with a RED, we shot The Last Job on the RED with Mike Epple as Director of Photography.

Nothing wrong with getting in a production early if you feel it has potential.

Thank you, sir. Beautiful trailer. Looks very good!

And I agree. That’s why I asked here. If someone sees something they like in what I’ve put together and thinks it has a shot then they can get involved and maybe we can make some beautiful music together!

You may want to consider adding a contract and profit participation to your prospective DP. After all you're asking the DP to invest as much in rate and equipment donations as the rest of the entire budget. Your creativity is worth quite a bit too, but 25% seems reasonable for a 50% investment given the circumstances, and a contract stating that said DP will be hired to shoot the feature or be bought out.

That’s a great suggestion and I would be more than happy to do so. I have no problem making an agreement with the DP to share any profits the film should make.

 

[bigdaddyral]

Wow some more

Wow some more

Part II:

Evin has a good point here...Very good idea.

Its true...a DP's has his experience, knowledge and in this situation his camera and gear. This person you hire to be your DP will make the film or trailer sell.

It has worked many times...basically the trailer is a calling call for both of you. Unfortunately, you have to sacrifice some of the rewards...not saying you wouldn't but I see and heard of many indie directors shoot a trailer or a 5min short of the film...Investors love the look and the film, they get the money. Suddenly, they hire a completely different DP because now he has the cash to hire a so-called celebrity DP or well-known DP because now you are shooting a feature film and its a reality...before it was a pipe dream. Its a shame, but it has happened.

I agree completely. Again, I’d have no problem with a contract because I am neurotically loyal and would have way too much guilt to screw someone over like that! Especially after essentially doing an enormous favor for me!

After looking at the website I think there's enough there for a prospective investor to know what he's getting into. I'm not sure a trailer is going to help. It may actually hurt more than it helps since it's no budget. The investor's imagination is likely to be more optimistic.

Go out and sell it now IMHO.

Thank you, sir. I’ve tried to put as much effort and professionalism as possible into every thing I have done with this production. I appreciate the compliment!

I don’t know that a trailer would hurt if done well and, of course, my goal is to make this trailer the best it can be. My hope is that if I bring them a knockout trailer, a professional one sheet, a quality website, fully fleshed out pre-production material, a promotional plan, in addition to a well researched and robust investment proposal, they will know that I am serious and maybe a safer bet than some.

Put your best foot forward, so to speak.

I'm surprised he hasn't came out and talked about our ideas.

My apologies, sir. Every time I sat down to respond, something else came up! It has been insanely busy for me. Doing this all by my lonesome is not easy. I will enlist a volunteer producer from the start for my next film!

I've worked on these investor trailers before and they can be very good vehicles for getting the funding - but, make sure you are doing yourself more good than harm. If you're going to show them rather than tell them, than it really needs to be strong. Especially comedy. I would sink my money into acting talent (which it sounds like you have that) and a really good DP. In terms of format, that should be up to the discretion of the DP. If they feel that they can shoot this on an EX-1 and get your trailer to look good enough to sell the jokes/performances, and it saves you some money, then by all means go with that.

But as others have mentioned, make sure the contracts are solid. Never promise anything you can't back up with legal documentation. If a DP is willing to commit to your project for no/low fee, then give them the courtesy of a contract that states the terms you have both agreed to.

I have witnessed potential investors getting excited about actually seeing something tangible, but it can play against you if the trailer comes out less than their expectations. I suppose only you know how strong the material is and what you can get up on screen.

I wish you the best with the project, and feel free to PM me if you want to ask about my prior experience with this.

I agree with you entirely! And thanks for the kind words and the offer of advice. I will certainly take you up on that! This is a marvelous forum filled with really wonderful and helpful people.

You guys are awesome just for taking the time to comment on this! I am truly grateful!

I have raised over $2.5M cash for feature films in the past 10 years and NEVER USED A PROMO TRAILER.

That includes raising $125K in Sept for a $200K feature
that was shot on RED.

"SOME DAYS ARE BETTER THAN OTHERS" directed by Matt McCormick and produced by David Cress and Neil Kopp, the latter won the Independent Spirit award for Wendy and Lucy and both of those guys were producers on Gus Van Sant's Paranoid Park... It also stars the lead singers of Slater Kinney and The Shins.

Not one mention of what the film is about yet... much less a trailer.

Do you see any correlation here as to why I raised the money so easily?

I also have NEVER given an investor a script. Most, have no clue how to read one... Synposis, and PASSION... sells investors.

and like or not. it is ALL ABOUT NAME TALENT... in some section ABOVE THE LINE.

My 4 most important CREW hires on any film (yes, in order of importance)

LINE PRODUCER
DP
SOUND OPERATOR
DIRECTOR (unless he is an established and distributed talent)

My friend Shawn Nelson on here also provided a RED Camera for a film that
shot a trailer at my studio... to raise money... and so far, he has not raised a dime. And this guy is a world renowned illustrator.

it is ALL ABOUT THE PACKAGE... because in the end, if YOU cant sell the movie, then more often than not, neither can a distributor...

Thats my 10 years plus and $2.5M worth...

But before you think that I think I know everything. I am also a guy who had a chance to invest in and produce SUPER TROOPERS... and I thought it was a cliched piece of crap script and also thought the filmmakers (Broken Lizard) first film, Puddle Cruiser was a sophomoric, unfunny amateur film.

Guess What? Super Troopers went on the gross over $25M domestic... and close to $100M so clearly, I know NOTHING about how to determine what a "good" movie is.

Turned out to be my teen daughters favorite movie that year...:ranting2:

Thank you for the advice and real world examples!

As I have no real connections, I decided that it was unlikely to get any name talent for the film. And I must admit that it never occurred to me to try to find name Crew talent. I figured my best chance was to deliver the very best product that I could put together using local unknowns and see how far I could take it.

You have far more experience than me, so I’m not in much of a position to argue, but I hope that my proposal package and my passion will be enough to raise the money.

I figure that I can assume it won’t work and not bother trying, or I can have hope that it will and put my all into it. If it doesn’t pan out in the end, I’ve still had a life enriching experience and gained a tremendous wealth of knowledge and experience for the next film! Not to mention the relationship building!

Sorry to hear about Super Troopers. I love that movie. Though I wasn’t crazy about it the first time I saw it, it grew on me.

Tim, this is a good point. The ones I've been involved with have always had names attached and that is a big selling point for people. One of them had a famous professional boxer in one of the roles and that got people's attention for better or for worse.

But, I also believe you could generate interest with a well done trailet that has lesser known actors. It just has to be really compelling, very well done. And as you said, the package is what sells people on it. A great script, letters of interest from name actor's agents, letters of interest from other investors, a good track record, and perhaps a really good trailer gives you a good step in the right direction for getting a film made. But even then, it can be hard.

I agree. And that’s what I’m working so hard to deliver. Only I assume it will be VERY hard. Every step of the way!

 

[Joe G.]

It was said before, but here's your problem:

"I will be shooting a five minute promotional trailer..."

A trailer is two minutes, or two and a half -- MAX. It also "trails" the production, so the footage is already shot, and you have tons of material to choose from. You're too ambitious for this trailer.

For "proof of concept" you need one day, one scene that makes magic. Without that, they may not want to see the entire five minutes.