Voiding warranty - what other surprises are there besides Global Media batteries?

[Zeb B]

. . . legally a CA company cannot void a consumer warranty without cause or prevent the use of a competing brand of products with the threat of warranty cancellation (the ink jet printer refill case) - practically they can do whatever they want until a customer challenges it

 

[Mike 'Fireman' Ross]

I assume by "Birger situation" you mean a popular third party accessory, that once in production, never caused damage to a single camera... (If you meant something else, you should check your facts, before continuing to spread an urban legend...)

Now if my memory is faulty I apologise, but I recently read a post from Jarred to the effect that the problem (or A problem) with the Birger was that it changed very considerably between the early design that he approved, and the later production items - in particular, in terms of what it did with the /I cable. To the extent that the production design was NOT one he would have approved, if he had had sight of it. Is that at all accurate?

Mike

 

[Scott Crawley]

I didn't mean to re-open a hurtful can of worms. Erick has been through enough. My remark was short and on topic, could we stay in track please?

 

[Benjamin Zimbric]

I'm the guy whose warranty was not honored because of the use of another non-red power source. It's very disturbing that the threat was pulled. I was charged $1500 because I used another power source without the words RED on the side. I will continue to warn others to not talk to RED when warrantying their cameras. Send it in and say it doesn't work. Do not give any specifics. They are not here to help you. They are here to make money. Never forget that. Let's see how quickly they pull this one down.

 

[Les C.]

I'm the guy whose warranty was not honored because of the use of another non-red power source. It's very disturbing that the threat was pulled. I was charged $1500 because I used another power source without the words RED on the side. I will continue to warn others to not talk to RED when warrantying their cameras. Send it in and say it doesn't work. Do not give any specifics. They are not here to help you. They are here to make money. Never forget that. Let's see how quickly they pull this one down.

Was there any change in how that was resolved? Have you tried to escalate the issue up the food chain?

I'd followed the thread, but just couldn't find it.

You mean your thread was actually pulled?

 

[Tim Morten]

Can we get an official comment from Red on whether non-Red power sources void warranty? I don't have a horse in the race: just would like to know either way.

 

[Jarred Land]

This is common sense guys... there are some stuff out there that is not made as well as it should be.. or operate outside the range (specially power ) that keeps your camera healthy. Heck.. there is even some stuff out there that is wired backwards or made with cheap knock-off lemo connectors that have no Key and you can blow the whole thing up.

We are not trying to restrict.. we are trying to protect. We have no problem certifying 3rd party products for use with our cameras.. we do it all the time. but once we get a ton of complaints about a device that causes damages to cameras and the 3rd party manufacture doesn't want to take responsibility.. we need to step in.. to protect both of us.

The biggest issue is lens mounts and power. Another is Audio. Audio for some reason is probably the biggest clusterfuck of miss-match out there.. not sure why. and when you deal with phantom power and bad connections, miss-wired backwards cables or just bad board design, bad things can happen.

 

[Sergio Perez]

A bit off topic, but I think many are going for alternate batteries also because of the form factor. Red bricks were designed with the red one in mind, Jarred, any chance for new red bricks that would suit the dsmc form factor better? The bricks are Huge! Currently I only use redvolts and will purchase a dual, but there will be situation where I can't switch batteries and the quad module is just huge! Pleas develop this!

 

[Matt Ryan]

A bit off topic, but I think many are going for alternate batteries also because of the form factor. Red bricks were designed with the red one in mind, Jarred, any chance for new red bricks that would suit the dsmc form factor better? The bricks are Huge! Currently I only use redvolts and will purchase a dual, but there will be situation where I can't switch batteries and the quad module is just huge! Pleas develop this!

RED's batteries are standard size, not specific to the original Red One. All brick batteries are similar in dimension... obviously the more wh the bigger the brick...

 

[Les C.]

This is common sense guys... there are some stuff out there that is not made as well as it should be.. or operate outside the range (specially power ) that keeps your camera healthy. Heck.. there is even some stuff out there that is wired backwards or made with cheap knock-off lemo connectors that have no Key and you can blow the whole thing up.

We are not trying to restrict.. we are trying to protect. We have no problem certifying 3rd party products for use with our cameras.. we do it all the time. but once we get a ton of complaints about a device that causes damages to cameras and the 3rd party manufacture doesn't want to take responsibility.. we need to step in.. to protect both of us.

The biggest issue is lens mounts and power. Another is Audio. Audio for some reason is probably the biggest clusterfuck of miss-match out there.. not sure why. and when you deal with phantom power and bad connections, miss-wired backwards cables or just bad board design, bad things can happen.

I appreciate RED's efforts to protect us.

But, kind of like in the movie 'Dr. Strangelove' where NOT telling the world about the doomsday device defeats the purpose ... not having an official list of problem devices makes it hard for RED owners to be good customers and only use products that will not damage the RED cameras.

I'd appreciate a list of devices that are known to be problematic, as I certainly don't want to buy them, and I'm sure that the users on this forum who already own them will want to stop using products that can damage their cameras and buy something better.

But, help us out a bit? I think that finding out in an indirect manner during a warranty support call that GMP batteries can damage RED cameras is not the way to go about it. We need the same information that you have, to make good purchase decisions.

An 'official' list of problem devices would be very much appreciated!

An 'official' list of known good devices (I'm assuming AB would fit on that list?), would also be appreciated!

 

[Tim Morten]

We are not trying to restrict.. we are trying to protect. We have no problem certifying 3rd party products for use with our cameras.. we do it all the time. but once we get a ton of complaints about a device that causes damages to cameras and the 3rd party manufacture doesn't want to take responsibility.. we need to step in.. to protect both of us.

Thanks Jarred! Makes sense. What's the best way to stay on top of what is explicitly approved or disapproved? I would hate to inadvertently buy something that caused damage. There were some threads praising the GMP's for instance, so I think we often rely on testamonials from other Red users, rightly or wrongly. Thanks to this thread, I know to steer clear (and it sounds like the advice is indeed to stick to Red power sources, which is fair enough - are there non-Red batteries that have been certified?).

PS - Would also be good to know if battery plates like the VF, Wooden, or ActionProducts are approved or potential warranty voiders.

 

[paulherrin]

i'm going to speak for all the people that are probably worried about their warranties now. the only power i've used for my camera is ac and redvolts in my sidehandle... apparently i got lucky.

so why are we just now hearing about this? and more importantly, how do we know what might void a warranty?

ever since the end of last year there have been a crazy number of long threads about 'cheap' v-mount batteries - especially globalmedia pro. never came across any warnings, and most everyone that has tested/owned them seems to be pretty happy and without reported issues. maybe i've missed it, but i have not heard about problems with those particular batteries. when i was considering my power options in the beginning, other than the fact that i just don't like how they look - i was wary about them being so cheap... but i've never had reason to think they posed a serious threat to the camera until just now.

i don't have a problem with a harmful device voiding warranty and i certainly don't mind being protected from them. but apparently some of this stuff is not such common sense - and what makes the least sense is that we're just now getting word that a large portion of users cameras are in danger, and that they've possibly already voided their warranties. what am i missing? are all these guys over-reacting to worry about their warranty all of a sudden, or is this an announcement that half the population has probably voided out in one way or another... sorry, i love you guys - but i don't get it and i'd really like to think we're all using the same common sense about these kinds of situations... i apologize if i'm off base on this one - i'm open to other perspectives, but this one needs to be clearly explained if it's that big of a deal.

so i'm asking. with all due respect, for some concise information for the guys that might be feeling a bit uncomfortable at this point.

i think it's pretty legitimate to be wondering what specifically voids the warranty or not. what about all the different battery mounts? switronix, brooks? what about anton bauers? lens mounts? button mics? i was thinking about getting one of the little scratch mics that everyone is using, but now i have to wait to see if it's going to mess up my warranty. i think everyone would appreciate some straight talk on these things... thank you

 

[Adam Howden]

Yep agreed. A video card manufacturer or software developer release a list of known good hardware combos. Jarred I'm sure every red customer would love something like this as an appendix in the manuals. Like when Blackmagic publish a list of hardware combos for Da Vinci.

Bring on the Pro I/O!

 

[Brant Hadfield]

Did I miss something here? I don't remember reading that anyone at Red acknowledged that the GMP batteries had anything to do with the repair in question. In fact, I think read that it was explained their use was not a factor in the failure. Yet Red used the knowledge they were used by the customer as their legal hook to deny warranty coverage. The only thing Red is looking to "protect" is their bottom line. And unless the individual who suffered the loss takes it to small claims court in the state of CA, which I think he should if he lives in CA, Red will have no motivation to follow CA laws if they actually do protect consumers in a circumstance such as this.

 

[Zeb B]

Did I miss something here?

Short answer:
Yes

Long answer:
I think you're way off base with the "bottom line" comment and it is rhetoric like this that derails what is a healthy dialog between RED and their concerned customers who just want to do the right thing. I do agree there should be transparency in the form of a posted and actively updated 3rd party product list that includes those that have been verified to be harmful to our complex and expensive cameras. That list will create a forum exchange between RED Users and others which will add to the knowledge base and would be very helpful for all stake holders including the offending manufacturers. If a product is fucked - then let's all work to get it identified and un-fucked then move on. Broad based 3rd party product supply/support is critical in the success of any modern company so we all have a shared interest here.

I don't believe for a second that RED plays games with the 3d party issue to avoid their warranty responsibility - I do believe RED is probably the most, how should I put this . . ."lightly documented" company of complex products I have ever dealt with. That lack of documentation does not equal anything dark or evil it just creates confusion and anxiety at times on serious topics like warranty cancellation. As we move from the revolutionary to evolutionary phase I'm sure these knowledge and doc gaps will be filled.

 

[Scott Crawley]

... Red will have no motivation to follow CA laws if they actually do protect consumers in a circumstance such as this.

You are mistaken. Any dispute with Red could end up in a California court, so they are likely more concerned with CA laws than any place else particularly if they are more stringent.

 

[Martin Weiss]

I think this really boils down to common sense. If you use a bad power supply that fries your camera, of course RED cannot be held responsible. If you fill crap gas into your Ferrari and it wrecks your engine, you would have to pay for the repair.

I use both RED Volts and a variety of V-lock batteries from name suppliers. I use a high quality charger for them, if a battery should be bad, it wouldn't get charged.

Also, if one type of battery should turn out to be frying cameras, I am sure we'd all heard about it by now.

tltr; Use common sense. Chill. Shoot pictures.

 

[N_Villers]

I'm the guy whose warranty was not honored because of the use of another non-red power source. It's very disturbing that the threat was pulled. I was charged $1500 because I used another power source without the words RED on the side. I will continue to warn others to not talk to RED when warrantying their cameras. Send it in and say it doesn't work. Do not give any specifics. They are not here to help you. They are here to make money. Never forget that. Let's see how quickly they pull this one down.

If the problem is unrelated to a faulty power supply ie. a bad PL mount and red did not honor their warranty for this reason I would agree that this is unfair at the least. However, if as I imagine the bad power supply damaged the camera it makes perfect sense for them to not repair the damage for free.

 

[Meryem Ersoz]

Audio for some reason is probably the biggest clusterfuck of miss-match out there.. not sure why. and when you deal with phantom power and bad connections, miss-wired backwards cables or just bad board design, bad things can happen.

Please find a way to take the mystery out of these things then.

I have no idea what is ok or not ok to plug into these audio jacks. There's a few murmuring threads on reduser where users share their experiments with trying to get XLR into the mini-jacks, but if there is an official list of approved options, I would sure like to know what they are, instead of hitting and missing with suggestions from users who are as in the dark as I am.

Not disclosing what works, in an accessible or centralized location where we can find the information to make decent choices, and then blaming the outcome on the customer...

RED can definitely do better than that. Just give me a dozen good audio options for different applications - I'll buy from that list....I would much prefer it to a cycle of trial, error, and warranty repair charges....

I have felt a little paranoid plugging into these jacks from the beginning and have had to rely on reduser hearsay to try to make good choices. I would rather have this information directly from the source. Help us out, RED.

 

[Scott Crawley]

The audio "problem" as i understand it is that audio cables and connectors could be wired in any which way and we as camera people don't know how to identify one from the other sometimes. We are somewhat accustomed to having our connectors idiot proofed and standardized to prevent us from overloading circuits like a bone head. In comparison the land of audio is like the wild wild west. Look out, that cable could be loaded.