VFX Software for R3D (Autodesk?)

[PJ Porter]

Hello all,


I am considering buying Autodesk 3DS Max, Maya, or Smoke to use with my RED files for Music Videos, and Cinema.

My QUESTIONS,


Has anyone on here used any of these with their RED workflow? If Yes, How is it?


If NO, what software would you prefer?

Much Appreciated!

 

[PatrickFaith]

For Maya i'm normally working from a openexr, i don't know anyone that uses maya with raw formats. I do a lot of vfx in nukex, over 50% of my renders, so you can now do full vfx on r3d raw. So here's my flow:

Hiero -> r3d -> nukex -> exr/jpeg -> maya -> render -> exr & r3d -> nuke -> dpx -> hiero

I think this flow is pretty common ( foundry deals with r3d real well, but maya is mainly exr, with final compositing merging the r3d + exr). I haven't used smoke, though i hear good things about it. Seems like some shops are nuke, other's are smoke, but most shops use either maya or max (I personally think for film and game industry Maya is a real good pick).

 

[Gavin Greenwalt]

If you're trying to decide between Max Maya and Smoke I would take a step back from the question of R3D support and take a closer look at what exactly it is you want to use this software for. Smoke and Max/Maya are very different applications, it's a bit like choosing between Adobe Premiere and Microsoft Excel.

Maya and Max have no RED workflow. The only interaction I have is through background plates which I usually render off as jpeg sequences. And a jpg sequence is a jpg sequence, whether it's RED or from a cell phone camera Max/Maya don't really care.

If you want to edit smoke is a decent option. I would argue that the Adobe Creative Cloud is a more cost effective choice though. If you want to do high end compositing I would go with Nuke which does read R3Ds directly, however it's not GPU accellerated yet to decode so I'll probably continue my current approach of rendering out of RCX as EXR.

 

[Eric Santiago]

Agree with Gavin.

RED and Maya are part of my daily grind at work.

Not even close in relation to workflow other than film plate pixel size.

We have done a ton of green screen but again it simple sequential files loaded into the Maya camera for framing or tracking.

 

[Björn Benckert]

Smoke deal well with r3d. the autodesk 3D software, or any other 3D software for that matter does not. Nuke is close.

But Having a smoke as a hub and export exr to work in 3D is how it's normally done.

We use 2 flames, (about the same as smoke) and a few seats of 3dsmax and a few seat of nuke, still we also use resolve, final cut and creative cloud... so not really one program that does it all

 

[Eric Santiago]

VFX using R3D can get deep, really deep.

In my workflow, I dont force the complete raster in a Maya camera.

I learned that coming from the SD > HD > Film plate days.

Keep it simple at the VFX stage then let the real apps do the magic e.g. After Effects, Nuke, Smoke, Flame, etc...

Of course you will need to render out your 3D assets at the target resolution

 

[PJ Porter]

Hey Patrick, Are you using a mac with your Nukex?

For Maya i'm normally working from a openexr, i don't know anyone that uses maya with raw formats. I do a lot of vfx in nukex, over 50% of my renders, so you can now do full vfx on r3d raw. So here's my flow:

Hiero -> r3d -> nukex -> exr/jpeg -> maya -> render -> exr & r3d -> nuke -> dpx -> hiero

I think this flow is pretty common ( foundry deals with r3d real well, but maya is mainly exr, with final compositing merging the r3d + exr). I haven't used smoke, though i hear good things about it. Seems like some shops are nuke, other's are smoke, but most shops use either maya or max (I personally think for film and game industry Maya is a real good pick).

 

[PJ Porter]

Thanks Gavin!

 

[PJ Porter]

I see! Thanks a lot Bjorn! Personal question of preference though, between Nuke and Smoke which would you consider to be the best option for green screen?

Smoke deal well with r3d. the autodesk 3D software, or any other 3D software for that matter does not. Nuke is close.

But Having a smoke as a hub and export exr to work in 3D is how it's normally done.

We use 2 flames, (about the same as smoke) and a few seats of 3dsmax and a few seat of nuke, still we also use resolve, final cut and creative cloud... so not really one program that does it all

 

[PJ Porter]

I will keep this in mind! Thanks Eric!

VFX using R3D can get deep, really deep.

In my workflow, I dont force the complete raster in a Maya camera.

I learned that coming from the SD > HD > Film plate days.

Keep it simple at the VFX stage then let the real apps do the magic e.g. After Effects, Nuke, Smoke, Flame, etc...

Of course you will need to render out your 3D assets at the target resolution

 

[Björn Benckert]

I see! Thanks a lot Bjorn! Personal question of preference though, between Nuke and Smoke which would you consider to be the best option for green screen?

For me Smoke... I'm pretty old and I literary spent more than half my life infront of Inferno, flame, smoke... The difference between those and nuke is that they are not only compositing tools they also got probably one of the most most creative ways of editing and project managing and they provide instant playback, can keep huge batch trees inside a complex timeline etc. Where as nuke is more of a shot by shot compositing tool. So in that sense I think it's if you want to get into composting then learning a bit of nuke will go much quicker, not that nuke is a simple program, on the contrary it's highly capable and you can get really deep into nuke, program your own nodes etc and it's coming at a really good price and the foundry guys are very good at improving it so if you are new to both of them I would recommend nuke. But If finninshing and doing online / VFX work infront of a live audience is what you are into then flame is what you need.

When we work we got two flames in a client room and then next door 3 guys on 3DSMAX and nuke. The projects are conformed in one of the flames and then clips are shared in-between the two flames and onto a MetaSAN fiber network server where also the 3D guys can reach them as DPX or EXR files. '

If you use nuke and don't use flame or smoke you kind of need a NLE platform to keep the edit in progress in. The foundry guys are developing their Hiro timeline program which I think can develop to something really good. But it's also possible to gather all the renders in premiere or such. In nuke you don't really have a timeline and you don't conform a EDL or XML... where as the flame and smoke is the kings on handling large / complex edits and handle a lot of versions of edits or such.

Flame premium also includes a luster license and you can bounce comps between luster and flame in a very creative way and realtime grade trough multilayer comps with complex mattes etc. So yes if you want the sharpest showel in the shed then thats for sure flame premium but then again it does take quite a bit of time to get your head around it.

 

[PatrickFaith]

Hey Patrick, Are you using a mac with your Nukex?

Yep, Actually on nuke8x and nuke 9 studio, using a trashcan mac pro with a 24t thunderbolt 2 promise drive - Totally Screams(recent updates on 8 and 9 use the graphics card in the mac). I also btw use a cintiq 24t wacom interactive screen for doing the animation in maya and roto in nuke(i.e. I have some hints on how to hook animation pen displays if your raw/nuke/maya).

 

[Jim Hoffman]

While still in beta nuke studio takes a step closer to having a timeline with the ability to have multiple nuke comps accessible in the edit.

 

[PJ Porter]

I will definitely keep this in mind, when it is purchase time Thanks a lot Bjorn. Vital words from you my friend!

For me Smoke... I'm pretty old and I literary spent more than half my life infront of Inferno, flame, smoke... The difference between those and nuke is that they are not only compositing tools they also got probably one of the most most creative ways of editing and project managing and they provide instant playback, can keep huge batch trees inside a complex timeline etc. Where as nuke is more of a shot by shot compositing tool. So in that sense I think it's if you want to get into composting then learning a bit of nuke will go much quicker, not that nuke is a simple program, on the contrary it's highly capable and you can get really deep into nuke, program your own nodes etc and it's coming at a really good price and the foundry guys are very good at improving it so if you are new to both of them I would recommend nuke. But If finninshing and doing online / VFX work infront of a live audience is what you are into then flame is what you need.

When we work we got two flames in a client room and then next door 3 guys on 3DSMAX and nuke. The projects are conformed in one of the flames and then clips are shared in-between the two flames and onto a MetaSAN fiber network server where also the 3D guys can reach them as DPX or EXR files. '

If you use nuke and don't use flame or smoke you kind of need a NLE platform to keep the edit in progress in. The foundry guys are developing their Hiro timeline program which I think can develop to something really good. But it's also possible to gather all the renders in premiere or such. In nuke you don't really have a timeline and you don't conform a EDL or XML... where as the flame and smoke is the kings on handling large / complex edits and handle a lot of versions of edits or such.

Flame premium also includes a luster license and you can bounce comps between luster and flame in a very creative way and realtime grade trough multilayer comps with complex mattes etc. So yes if you want the sharpest showel in the shed then thats for sure flame premium but then again it does take quite a bit of time to get your head around it.