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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

VFX Protest in LA

There is no union for VFX artists in LA, not yet. This is one reason why the various effects companies were able to indiscriminately lay people off and fire them without regard to seniority, workload, age, salary, or anything else.
 
Bjorn,
I watched the entire video. I learned a lot. Thanks for link.

I hope Enders Game makes DD some money.
 
I like what Scott Ross said about the future of content being with companies like Samsung or Google rather than the big studios, I agree, I can see that becoming a reality. I also like when he said that some of the best parts of some Hollywood movies were the effects, that had me laughing. I think that's why we are seeing so many flops lately, is because Hollywood is masking good story telling with large effects and audiences don't care anymore, they are not falling for it.
 
Noel R. said:
I like what Scott Ross said about the future of content being with companies like Samsung or Google rather than the big studios, I agree, I can see that becoming a reality. I also like when he said that some of the best parts of some Hollywood movies were the effects, that had me laughing. I think that's why we are seeing so many flops lately, is because Hollywood is masking good story telling with large effects and audiences don't care anymore, they are not falling for it.
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What Ross said is we (VFX) worked on the best parts of the worst movies in Hollywood!

I haven't seen the new "Hunger games" but it looks like audiences are falling for it.

OTOH it looks like Enders Game could (per Steve Ross former owner) end Digital Domaine because of their investment.

I agree with Ross that the pipeline content could evolve from the 6 studios to places like Samsung, Google, Apple, Hulu, Netflix and RedRay. I added RedRay can't take a fella's hope away can ya? ; )

Its ripe for a redistribution of power when companies like Google control the new pipeline.

Has anyone used this facility yet? http://youtubespacela.com
 
i saw 'catching fire' with some girlfriends opening weekend, i actually really liked it - and i'm not even close to calling myself a 'fan'

conceptually-speaking, it is a sophisticated socio-political commentary made available for young people
(i could clearly see the 12-15yo female target right around me)
it encourages good values, like thinking outside the box of a media-crafted culture - all within hollywood's own box.
that's empowering (:

be careful what you wish for.
google is not your friend any more than the others in power, they just happen to have capitalized on some light resistance.
are they better? right now - probably certainly, and so are some of the others, but what's next?
 
I went and saw the new "Hunger Games" Interestingly, about a third of the audience was older folk like me.
 
at the opening?

i certainly saw abuncha parents going with their teens - that's cool (:
 
What's needed is WTO intervention and a trade organization. Unions may or may not help but unionization isn't the big underlying problem, however I can see how they could help add pressure but only if it happens soon.
 
Gavin Greenwalt said:
What's needed is WTO intervention and a trade organization. Unions may or may not help but unionization isn't the big underlying problem, however I can see how they could help add pressure but only if it happens soon.
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This gets a bit political offocurse, but what do you mean those unions should do. Force union members not to move to tax subsidized countries or areas. Or how would a union do anything more than bringing post houses into bankruptcy quicker?

Most VFx people are freelancing or contracted to work on specific projects, some are off course "on staff" and have their legal rights as any employed person. But non of that matters much when the companies they work are struggling and many have all ready gone bankruptcy.

I think the reason why it's so bad for post in LA is simply that the post houses are harder to move. Film crew can be split up much easer and DP's can travel and work elsewhere if it dries up in their local home town. Also rental shooting equipment today are shipped around like crazy all over the world. But those major posts houses can not do so that quickly. Their lead talent is not keen to move, and to set up someplace else takes time and you need to move a quite large group of people to set up proper someplace else and there is also a lot invested in into the walls of these post houses, with render farms etc and a lot of the gear and even the facilites them selfs are often under leasing contracts and can not be moved around or out of the state or country etc. So basically they sit put and hope for the better until they fall over. Not saying that there is no other option but at least that seams to be the trend for the moment.
 
Björn Benckert said:
I think the reason why it's so bad for post in LA is simply that the post houses are harder to move. Film crew can be split up much easer and DP's can travel and work elsewhere if it dries up in their local home town. Also rental shooting equipment today are shipped around like crazy all over the world. But those major posts houses can not do so that quickly. Their lead talent is not keen to move, and to set up someplace else takes time and you need to move a quite large group of people to set up proper someplace else and there is also a lot invested in into the walls of these post houses, with render farms etc and a lot of the gear and even the facilites them selfs are often under leasing contracts and can not be moved around or out of the state or country etc. So basically they sit put and hope for the better until they fall over. Not saying that there is no other option but at least that seams to be the trend for the moment.
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You seem to be confusing "post" and "VFX." They are not the same thing. Basic post production is not leaving L.A. any time soon, regardless of subsidies. That's because the major industry talent - and I'm not talking about colorists, editors, sound editors, mixers, and the like, I'm talking about producers, writers, and directors - are not moving anywhere. Production is temporary. Homes are not, and the truth is that the ones who call the shots - namely those I've just mentioned - have no intention of living in Atlanta, Louisiana, Vancouver, Toronto, or, quite frankly, New York. Nearly all television post production and the vast, vast majority of feature post as well is still done in Los Angeles and does not seem to be budging, primarily because while production goes somewhere, shoots, and wraps, post production goes on for many months on a typical feature and many weeks on a typical television show, and those who supervise those steps live here. VFX is a completely different matter, because much like production, it takes large numbers of people and only occasional supervision. Many of the steps involved are creative, but many are not, and all of them take time. So unlike editing and grading, which are much more real time processes with a lot more client interaction, VFX are more like production in that the time factor is not as immediate. While it is true that remote viewing could conceivably be used for basic post production, there is no real outcry for moving those steps, and as long as the studios are still based here (and they still are.....), and as long as the trusted talent pool is still here (and it still is) it is unlikely that the situation will change in the near future. Beyond that, I'm not speculating.

I would also point out that while television dramas have become very decentralized in terms of production location, and studio features have certainly gone in search of free government money, there is still an awful lot of production activity in L.A., particularly in terms of comedies (which are nearly all shot here), cable dramas (a number of which are shot here) and a number of other types of productions. In fact, Culver Studios, which currently houses Agents of Shield, Cougar Town, Betas, Silicon Valley (an upcoming HBO show), Episodes, and one or two others, is actually oversold, to the point that there is no available parking there most days. A number of other lots in town are equally busy. So while the big features and network dramas have moved around, L.A. still has quite a lot of work. It's hardly the ghost town that some here seem to think it is. And hopefully some recent activity centering around our new mayor's efforts to get the state to play the incentive game more effectively will ultimately pay off and it will be a more even playing field, although the whole race to the bottom represented by incentives/subsidies is a pretty ridiculous situation that eventually will be seen by local taxpayers in those areas as being what is it: money coming out of their pockets and into the pockets of a very few large, very successful motion picture studios. Sooner or later they're going to recognize that their local governments are more interested in making movies than taking care of their citizens, and that in the end the only ones who are really benefiting are the studios, who are laughing all the way home.
 
i agree with mike absolutely here. what's happening is the raping of natural resources. the particular resources happen to be persons.
 
Björn Benckert said:
This gets a bit political offocurse, but what do you mean those unions should do. Force union members not to move to tax subsidized countries or areas. Or how would a union do anything more than bringing post houses into bankruptcy quicker?

Most VFx people are freelancing or contracted to work on specific projects, some are off course "on staff" and have their legal rights as any employed person. But non of that matters much when the companies they work are struggling and many have all ready gone bankruptcy.
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Unions can do a number of things without bankrupting the studios further. They can first and foremost represent worker rights. Unpaid overtime, back pay, etc can still be unreliable and require lawsuits. There is also the large wage fixing class action related to the no-poaching agreements between the studios. These are areas where a union could be a big force force for good. It would also eliminate and enforce unpaid internships and other illegal but unenforced labor laws. In the US another huge thing is retirement and healthcare. A union could provide a framework to ensure VFX workers actually have benefits. The second thing it can do is represent the workers' interests in government. The VFX companies aren't going to lobby for enforcement of labor laws and the studios certainly won't either. The Union would also be a huge force in lobbying for modification of subsidies. Direct payments to the VFX company not the studio for instance.

The last thing it could do and this is the least certain but potentially useful bit is to become the "bad guy" in negotiations. Right now it's just the Studios and the VFX Facilities. Add in the Union and the Union can make demands which affect the budgets without getting a facility blacklisted. If ILM, DD, DoubleNeg etc all had workers demand that their wages are in escrow then ILM can go to the studio and say "look our hands are tied, we need $xxx up front for the union, it's the same here as it is at DD." I think the Unions could strong arm the facilities into making demands that translate into more money for the facility which means stronger institutions and less bankruptcies. The other thing that could theoretically be done but I highly doubt is if VFX was like production where a union production had to use Union workers. The DGA could force the studio to use a union VFX shop. Union VFX shops could extract some concessions such as a certain % of work being done at a union shop. That would though depend on the DGA and writer's guild etc being willing to stand with a VFX union, I find that dubious.
 
Björn Benckert said:
This gets a bit political offocurse, but what do you mean those unions should do. Force union members not to move to tax subsidized countries or areas. Or how would a union do anything more than bringing post houses into bankruptcy quicker?
Click to expand...

The tax incentives other countries apply are likely against WTO rules. America could probably apply countervailing duties even if it does nothing else. Why doesn't it do that (or put pressure on the countries with the subsidies to lower them, etc)? Quite possibly because the voice of producers getting the discounts is louder than the voice of VFX artists. A VFX union could be a strong voice pushing that point, for one thing.

Secondly, due to the health insurance situation in America, companies get much better health insurance deals than freelancers or individuals moving between companies per job. A union could work with insurers to get a "company-style" health insurance plan that is a better deal than what freelancers currently have. If you look at other guilds (Editor's Guild, etc) you'll see they have done that.

Everything isn't black-and-white of course, but there are two important things to be aware of. It's not a bunch of whiny LA guys trying to force bankrupt companies to keep jobs. It's more about the fact that the playing field is not level at all due to foreign government subsidies and a healthcare situation that doesn't benefit VFX artists. And there is currently no unified voice attempting to fight these things.

Bruce Allen
www.boacinema.com
 
Bruce Allen said:
The tax incentives other countries apply are likely against WTO rules. America could probably apply countervailing duties even if it does nothing else. Why doesn't it do that (or put pressure on the countries with the subsidies to lower them, etc)? Quite possibly because the voice of producers getting the discounts is louder than the voice of VFX artists. A VFX union could be a strong voice pushing that point, for one thing.
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A more to the point way of saying this is that the studios/producers have money. Lots of it, in part thanks to all those bribes - errr, sorry, "incentives and subsidies." And they spend it on politicians, among other things, to get exactly the situation we have now. In other words, the current situation is bought and paid for, like just about everything in American politics. The chance of even a strong, national, and universally supported union movement being able to supply those who decide these things with an equal amount of bribery - errrr, sorry, "campaign support funds" - is slim to none. We will never see fairness with regard to working people in this country unless all private financing is taken out of political campaigns at the federal level. And the chances of that are incalculably small.

Secondly, due to the health insurance situation in America, companies get much better health insurance deals than freelancers or individuals moving between companies per job. A union could work with insurers to get a "company-style" health insurance plan that is a better deal than what freelancers currently have. If you look at other guilds (Editor's Guild, etc) you'll see they have done that.
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Sort of. The Motion Picture Health and Pension Plans are funded by the employers, not the union. They are provided to union members through Contract Services, which is administered by the signatory companies. The funding comes from residuals, which most people - including many union members - think only go to actors, directors, and writers. That is not the case. Members of those guilds get their residuals paid directly to them. The IATSE locals also get residuals, but they are used to fund the health and pension plan. That's why, as an IA member, you must maintain your hours worked in order to retain your benefits. IA members who qualify get these benefits with no out of pocket contributions, although it could easily be argued that the combination of dues paid and the minimum hour requirements more than make up for this. When you do not qualify, you can go on COBRA for 18 months, or you can use banked hours if available. But the fact remains that it is not the union that is paying for any of this. They have negotiated the employer contributions for their members, but they are not part nor parcel to the plan itself.

Everything isn't black-and-white of course, but there are two important things to be aware of. It's not a bunch of whiny LA guys trying to force bankrupt companies to keep jobs. It's more about the fact that the playing field is not level at all due to foreign government subsidies and a healthcare situation that doesn't benefit VFX artists. And there is currently no unified voice attempting to fight these things.
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I would also point out that this is not strictly a US only problem. At least not yet. As has been shown many times in the past, the studios will go to whatever location is offering the biggest bribe - errr, sorry, "incentive or subsidy" - at any point in time, and will instantly abandon that location as soon as the money is either reduced or eliminated. In other words, there is no such thing as a permanent commitment, or any semblance of one. And that holds true regardless of how much "infrastructure" a location is inclined to either provide or construct, because it's never been about that. Nobody goes to Atlanta because they have great studio facilities. And nobody goes to New Orleans because they have shootable backlots. They go because they're giving away money, pure and simple. Anything else is superfluous. When the money is reduced, either by reducing the incentive payments or through a change in the international exchange rate, the studios move on faster than you can blink. If anyone doubts this, they can study the lessons of places like Michigan, Australia, Vancouver, Florida, North Carolina, New Zealand, South Africa, and numerous others. Studios love you when you're paying them to be there. The love instantly disappears when the money either disappears or is greater elsewhere. There are very few places in the world that are their own attraction for the industry and therefore always attractive as a shooting location. Off the top of my head, I can think of exactly three - Los Angeles, New York, and London. And even in the case of the latter two, if the incentives are even slightly reduced that situation can and would change in a heartbeat. So for those living and working in "incentivized" locations, I would caution against thinking that you're going to be living and working there permanently. Because unless your local governments continue to ante up - in other words, give your tax dollars to the studios, and in ever increasing amounts - you won't. It really is that simple.
 
Living in NZ Ican attest Mike is absolutely correct, and that's despite Peter Jackson and now James Cameron living here, two producer/directors who arguably have the most clout in the world. They still rely on the studios for financing, and studios ultimately are the ones who greenlight their productions.

Of course, the irony is that were it not for the studios stranglehold on distribution networks and marketing through being part of global media conglomerates, then cities and countries would be more able to build infrastructure based on local talent and attract a wider pool of investment. Media integration and cross promotion has studios in an almost unassailable position - because even if the film maker can raise a production budget for a genre heavy film, they rely on the studios to distribute it which means the studios will have some investment to ensure they have control on the films release date etc and thus be in on where it gets shot and where the VFX gets done.

Only exception to thus that I know of being produced with NZ involvement was District 9. But that was because it's budget was low enough for QED to finance and then get a arudio on to distribute later.
 
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