Using a BNC lens on RED ONE with BNCR mount ?

[Brian Ferguson]

There is a charisma and nostalgia with older glass that some of us desire. It's similar to how some people still desire using old polaroid cameras, not because the photos were super amazing or the engineering was better then, but simply because of nostalgia. For me, it's an aesthetic choice and mostly for artistic pleasure.

Ok I get that, can you not do that with digital filters? Ala Instagram type "looks"? I remember shooting Super 8 Angienieux lenses in the 80's on a Bolex and the back-light on the old lenses just killed the shot, way worse flare than I was used to. But a good point now is, you could see that flare with a monitor, rather than waiting to see a transfer. I guess I still think of those old lenses in an age where you do not have WYSISWYG. Fair enough! I just think of those lenses as a bad part of my history.

 

[Yousuf Abbasi]

Brian, it seems like old lenses bring back some bad memories for you -- in that case, I will help you out and take all of your old lenses ;-)

But really, digital filters are not really the answer when it comes to truly creating the "personality" that a lens has. Take for example super baltars, they glow unevenly, and yet still somehow produce a "sharp enough" picture -- doing that in post is, I guess possible, if I tried hard enough. Maybe some filters will help, but doubt they would get me all the way there. Thus, I'd rather use the lens itself.

 

[PaulScaglione]

Hi all,
I am the technician/engineer at Visual Products that designed the VP BNCR mount for both the Red One and Epic/Scarlet cameras and I am sorry to report that there will more than likely never be a mount for the Red one camera that accepts a BNC mount lens due to mechanical restrictions and financial realities. As mentioned in prior responses, there is a great difference in physical depth between the BNC and BNCR (R for reflex) lens mounts, the latter-mentioned was designed with reflex viewing systems in mind that utilized a pelicle mirror or spinning reflex viewing mirror covering the image plane at a 45 degree angle to send an image off to an optical viewfinder thus restricting physical lens or mount depths. This lens design allowed a (BNCR) mount flange to be designed that would not interfere with Red One's stock lens mount base and therefore did not alter the factory sensor mount or camera housing. This goal of using BNC mount lenses on a Red Cinema product could feasibly be accomplished for the Epic/Scarlet cameras. It would theoretically be a straight bolt-on item replacing the stock lens mount/base combination without voiding any warranties. The MAJOR concern here would be with wide-angle lenses of very early design that possess rear elements that probe deep toward the image plane. These lenses could VERY POSSIBLY damage the image sensor. These early lenses were not designed with any physical restrictions in mind, especially not IR filters. As an example I just measured the rears of some Bausch & Lomb Baltars in BNC mount and found that a 35mm focal length would clear the sensor on an Epic/Scarlet at approximately 35mm total mechanical depth below the mount flange but a 30mm focal length would not @ 43mm deep when there is only 40.075mm of depth available to work with. As well, our experience at Visual Products with very old wide-angle lenses is that the rear elements are typically very small in diameter and have a very steep angle of emergence. This has always shown poorly in in-house tests as modern image sensors have a limited angle of acceptance due to the micro-lens array on the face of the sensors. This causes these old wide-angle lenses to display very distinct light fall-off toward the outer edges of the frame. The solution for a BNC mount lens on an Epic or Scarlet camera is already available and It looks like Michael Panfeld posted the solution above..... http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=261054695548&ssPageName=ADME:X:RTQ:US:1123 Just check the lengths of those lenses before stuffing them in the hole!!

 

[Michael Panfeld]

Thanks Paul:

This was just posted on another thread. Somebody has already produced a BNC-R mount for the Epic/Scaret that can accomodate those BNC mounted lenses that are of the shorter variety. Its been RED-approved, so my guess is that VP has no incentive to develop this.

Hello RED users

Some time ago we sent our mounts for Epic/Scarlet cameras to RED for testing. We've recently got answer from mr Chad Koeller that: " Our engineers have finished testing your lens mounts and they appear to be OK from a mechanical standpoint" .
I hope that is enough proof of theirs quality.

Hi

I did not test my BNCR mount with BNC lenses but some of them should fit. It is 35.8 mm deep in diameter of 68mm. That might be enough for some Cooke Speed Panchro or Super Baltars in BNC mount. Exactly measurment is essential.

 

[krzysztof jankowski]

Thanks Paul:

This was just posted on another thread. Somebody has already produced a BNC-R mount for the Epic/Scaret that can accomodate those BNC mounted lenses that are of the shorter variety. Its been RED-approved, so my guess is that VP has no incentive to develop this.

Hello Michael


My BNCR mount actaully has not been approved because I did not send it to RED. I got approval of PL, Panavision , Canon FD and B4 2/3" lens mount adapters. Of course it's as good as my other mounts...


http://www.ebay.com/itm/261077573215?ssPageName=STRK:MESELX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1555.l2649

 

[Michael Panfeld]

Thanks for the clarification. Please send that in for approval.

 

[William Dempsey]

Great. Let us know when it has RED's approval. I've got a set of BNCR Super Baltar lenses I'd love to be able to use on Scarlet.

 

[Michael Panfeld]

Bill: I live across Chain Bridge in DC. What are the odds that two sets of Super Baltars exist within a few miles of each other.

 

[William Dempsey]

Hey Michael,

Probably pretty slim unless you knew Martin Hill too. I suspect anyone who knew him couldn't help but end up with some sort of Baltar lens. I think he bought out F&B Ceco's whole BNCR inventory at some stage. I used to buy all sorts of things from him back in the 80s and early 90s. He had enough BNCR cameras, lenses and other components to supply several big studios. Back then I think he sold these to me for around $300 each. I remember that he would always show and then try to get me to buy the "Star Trek" camera when I drove down to NC to see him. If you knew him then you probably know what I'm talking about.

Looking at the list in your posts you have a more complete set than I do. Mine are up in a box in storage these days and I've got only six lenses from 20mm to 100mm. It would be cool to start using them again.

Found this about him. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k-dfm5k358E

Also this link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?NR=1&v=papl0AFJkvQ&feature=endscreen

 

[Christopher Mills]

Sidebar.. Martin Hill

Sidebar.. Martin Hill

yeah.. I knew Martin as well..
In the mid 1990s I outfitted a couple of production companies with gear from him..
Don't know if he is still with us..
He was a lot of fun.. and knew a great deal about the history of the actual cameras in his inventory..
He had a copy of a large part of the files from the Mitchell company, as he had been buying out surplus gear since the 1960s.. (He was also a regional Auricon dealer at one time).
He later bought the Ultracam inventory. I coordinated a deal between he and Dennis Steinhour to overhaul them as they sold.
He was among the best horse traders I have ever done business with, and a fine human being (those two traits dont always go together)..
Love seeing the video links!
We bought one of the Desilu BNCRs used on Lucy show.. I couldnt get my partners to agree to the Star Trek one...
In addition to knowing the history of many of his cameras, he also knew a tremendous amount about the mechanical characeristics of several decades of gear, and also quite a bit about the lenses and the magic/science of cinematography...

 

[William Dempsey]

Hey Christopher,

Not sure if he is still around either. I still have his number somewhere. Suppose I could give it a try.

It was cool to find those videos online. I think I enjoyed listening to his stories about the equipment as much as I did finding treasures among the shelves. I see from the videos that he never did sell the "Star Trek" Camera. Probably for the best as I used my equipment quite a bit and occasionally modified things. I would have felt guilty if I so much as put a scratch on anything of known historical value. I Hope those items find a good home where folks can go OOOH and AAAH like I did when I saw them.