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Used RED One or BMCC 2.5k

M

Mike Luk

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Hey Guys,

i hope it is ok to ask this Question ...

i am an Owner of the BMCC 2.5K EF , it makes really nice Pictures , but how about the RED One ?

I Really love the fact that the One can Shoot up to 120FPS on 2k RAW and 30FPS on 4K RAW REDCODE
My BMCC can shoot up to 30FPS on every Resolution ...

My BMCC can Record ProRes Files , how about the One ?
What is if i just want to shoot just a few short things , do One film always in "Film" Mode ? So i mean
is the Picture always flat ?

BMCC Can Shoot on "Film Mode" - flat and on Movie Mode - 709LUT

i mean i can get a ready to shoot Pack of the ONE for about 4-5k $ here (without Lens)
When i Sell my BMCC with the stuff i got for it i can get maybe about 2.5 up to 3$ so there
is not the big step for the One.

Can you help me thinking about this stuff ?

All i am shooting is planned - no News or something like that.
i am doing Musicvideos , Commercials and short films.

Hope you guys can really help me out

Best Wishes from Germany,

Mike

EDIT :

And please, i am a jung Student (i am 22). I can not buy all the awesome stuff you would recommend... i would love to get a scarlet ...
but i can't.

So please try to help me out , BMCC or R1 - and if R1 what minimalistic equip do i need to start shooting (i don't need to pay my bills with
the help of the R1)
 
Last edited:
I own both. For run and gun the BMCC will be the easy way out so to speak! You can capture stunning footage with the BMCC (although I hate the 2.4 crop factor)! On the other hand we have the Red One....... The mighty RED ONE MX!! And this camera is in a whole different league! You can do cinema style shooting on this camera but fully kitted and top 40-50 Lbs! But I tell you what there's in my opinion no comparison between these 2 cameras! actually The Red One MX ....... and I'm sure a lot of people share my opinion, is a better camera then the Scarlet! it weighs about 5 lbs
more then the scarlet BUT you get 120fps @ 2k, you can shoot up to 4.5K @ 30fps, etc.
 
an alternative to help you decide

an alternative to help you decide

I think you should spend a few days working with someone else's R1 either as an assistant, or by renting one for a project you are producing.

I like my R1 very much, and just worked a multi camera show which uses a BMCC as one of 4 types of camera, all of which were using canon L series zooms and primes.


We were in a very rugged environment, and I was always concerned about my perception of the BMCC being a little fragile. obvious trade off is that the R1 is a solid and heavy camera... though about the same weight as my fully dressed f900/3


I learned that you can recover about 1.5 stops more highlight from the BMCC than the R1, but that the R1 MX is more forgiving of underexposure detail than the BMCC

(our team was experienced in producing with Red, Sony, BMCC and Arri cameras)

Reference track was not sent to the BMCC, so it was used without sound. It is fairly simple to get sound into an R1, though I still think your should record a separate track for dialog.

We did not use the automated LUTs

That said, I think they both make very nice pictures, and I wish it were simpler to swap for EOS glass on an R1.
 
i know that the R1 is really heavy - so that is not the point for me.

The Point is , i HAVE a BMCC here now , and i am happy with it, but i HATE the Crop of 2.4
i hate the Fact that you can't do SlowMo and i really hate the Formfactor with its Strange working
LCD. You don't have AudioLevels etc. you know what i am talking about.

What about the LowLight of the Red One ? i think the BMCC need so many Light and still want some ISO

I realy don't know what to do :D Maybe you know my feeling.

Renting a Red One is really a good idea ...

How about the Image - when you compare the Image Quallity would u
prefer the R1 or the BMCC ?
 
You can't compare a R1 to BMCC. Yes the BMCC makes nice pictures but it's not in the same league. Show me your best BMCC footage you can find and I'll show you the best R1 footage :)
 
 
i have a BMC and Epic...i would not recommend the R1...yes, the image quality is great but by the time you have all your gear for the R1 you are looking at a pretty large investment and a quite large and heavy camera....
i know you don't want to hear it but scarlet is the better long term solution and if you are serious about getting into this the investment should not be too much....if it is, work with your BMC, save your cash and step up when you can...and in reality you don't want a scarlet, you want epic....so be prepared to spend more once you have scarlet....
i know this is not something mentioned here much but the fs700 is a great camera as well IMO....the BMC is nice but too me the raw workflow is a bit of a pain and the 30fps are limiting...
 
paul schefz said:
i have a BMC and Epic...i would not recommend the R1...yes, the image quality is great but by the time you have all your gear for the R1 you are looking at a pretty large investment and a quite large and heavy camera....
i know you don't want to hear it but scarlet is the better long term solution and if you are serious about getting into this the investment should not be too much....if it is, work with your BMC, save your cash and step up when you can...and in reality you don't want a scarlet, you want epic....so be prepared to spend more once you have scarlet....
i know this is not something mentioned here much but the fs700 is a great camera as well IMO....the BMC is nice but too me the raw workflow is a bit of a pain and the 30fps are limiting...
Click to expand...

Forget the R1 and go for an epic instead. You won't regret it.
 
Mike Luk said:
i know that the R1 is really heavy - so that is not the point for me.

The Point is , i HAVE a BMCC here now , and i am happy with it, but i HATE the Crop of 2.4
i hate the Fact that you can't do SlowMo and i really hate the Formfactor with its Strange working
LCD. You don't have AudioLevels etc. you know what i am talking about.

What about the LowLight of the Red One ? i think the BMCC need so many Light and still want some ISO

I realy don't know what to do :D Maybe you know my feeling.

Renting a Red One is really a good idea ...

How about the Image - when you compare the Image Quallity would u
prefer the R1 or the BMCC ?
Click to expand...
R1 has better all around image quality...if you shoot it right, the R1 will be better every time....but you can't handhold it...
not sure the R1 is any better in terms of low light...not at all....that is one area that even the epic is not so good at (compared to other cameras)...
with the new adapters coming out, the crop factor is pretty much gone?! slowmo is the big one.....
but keep in mind that even the scarlet is (very) limited in that regard....the higher compression rates take a lot away from the image quality....
 
Guys, you are forgetting his budget. If he could afford an epic, there would be no question which to use.

Doesn't matter what camera. By the time you fully kit it out, it will be hard to handhold. You can take care of that for under $300 and buy an Atlas Camera Support
 
R1 has OLPF which creates much smoother skin texture - any shot of any human face will look better on R1. BMC has no OLPF - part of why it is so cheap. This creates aliasiaing, less bad than DSLR - but same idea, where anyone's skin in focus will look less healthy than in real life, and wrinkles will be more pronounced.

BMP does not even have a way of adjusting backfocus! It doesn't even have a live histogram!

BMC is really a cheap, low-budget solution oriented toward students and low-end market like weddings, cheapo corporates and no-name music videos. Red One MX was once a top end camera that has been an A-Cam on huge Hollywood features. No top-end prod has ever used the BMC for anything ever, other than as a crash cam or a cam to take into remote regions. It's second rate.

Our R1 weight 14 pounds fully rigged. People add lots of useless junk to their cams that serves no real practical purpose (like endless 19mm rails). Not sure why, I think it's some silly macho thing.
 
Thx Sinh,

yes my Budget is my Problem. So R1 is the only one i can get now (with minimal Equip - what do i really need ?)

And over time i can save up for an Epic.
 
Mike Luk said:
Thx Sinh,

yes my Budget is my Problem. So R1 is the only one i can get now (with minimal Equip - what do i really need ?)

And over time i can save up for an Epic.
Click to expand...

Ok.. on a budget to get you into the system (this is not what I use, as I had more money available)

Nikon mount for the camera.. no evf, just lcd and a hood (yeah, I am serious) screw in filters and hoods for your lenses, recycle your follow focus accessories from your BMCC rig, maybe using a cheeseplate as a spacer, if needed

This will let you use nikon F mount glass and get started very cheaply with high quality images and decent focus throw.

Used anton bauer battery plate and and adapter cable from 12v to r1 lemo or a v-mount red belt clip

however, I highly encourage you to get one with an SSD module, and at least a three 64gb SSD redmags (you're better off with 3 128GB SSD redmags)
OR.. get used Red Drives, and the long valley top handle and red mag mount.

Also, spend hte money to get the element technica adapter for the mini bnc to regular bnc cables. This will prevent a lot of breakage on your camera

You will want a lot of other accesories, but this will get you well started at a low buy in.

I bought a lot more of the ancillary parts, like a studio pack and an EVF and top handle, etc..

I use both the Red Drives and SSD mags.. I find it is slower to download the drives..

Lastly,
I don't view the camera as doing as much to earn money without me. I am selling my skills, and when I can use my R1, I charge for it. It has turned a profit, but mostly it is my resume that convinces people to hire me, not which camera I own
 
Stick with the BMC. If you have it, and you like it, make it work for you. The Red One is a great camera, but it isn't upgradeable to Dragon, and is already somewhat obsoleted - so stick with the BMC and make some great work and earn some money and when the time is right get a Scarlet or Epic Dragon.

The Red One produces amazing images, but for a young film maker I'd take the size and convenience of the BMC any day, which also produces great images.

I can not buy all the awesome stuff you would recommend...
Click to expand...

Just one example, do you want to be spending $725 for every 64GB Red SSD?

Robert Ruffo New said:
BMC is really a cheap, low-budget solution oriented toward students and low-end market like weddings, cheapo corporates and no-name music videos.
Click to expand...

What big name music videos have you shot on your Red's lately Robert? You come across extremely negative towards the low end of the market.
 
budget to me is not so much an amount but the value per $ spent....i guess the R1 will be somehow affordable and can probably be sold again for little money lost...
the BMC is with all drawbacks in mind still a very good value.....the problem is that the "next step up" is not a cheap one...no matter how you look at it....
i am not sure one can build a much better resume/portfolio/reel with a R1 then a BMC....
i also don't really think a scarlet or epic is such a huge expense if some one is serious about what they want to do....starting any business will very likely require a higher starting investment and buying a camera capable of doing more then consumer grade cameras should be looked at as opening a business....a way to make money....
just to put things into perspective: an epic costs about the same as one beer/day in a bar/club for a year...and it will last a lot longer and has higher resale value....
 
Mike Luk said:
Hey Guys,

i hope it is ok to ask this Question ...

i am an Owner of the BMCC 2.5K EF , it makes really nice Pictures , but how about the RED One ?

I Really love the fact that the One can Shoot up to 120FPS on 2k RAW and 30FPS on 4K RAW REDCODE
My BMCC can shoot up to 30FPS on every Resolution ...

My BMCC can Record ProRes Files , how about the One ?
What is if i just want to shoot just a few short things , do One film always in "Film" Mode ? So i mean
is the Picture always flat ?

BMCC Can Shoot on "Film Mode" - flat and on Movie Mode - 709LUT

i mean i can get a ready to shoot Pack of the ONE for about 4-5k $ here (without Lens)
When i Sell my BMCC with the stuff i got for it i can get maybe about 2.5 up to 3$ so there
is not the big step for the One.

Can you help me thinking about this stuff ?

All i am shooting is planned - no News or something like that.
i am doing Musicvideos , Commercials and short films.

Hope you guys can really help me out

Best Wishes from Germany,

Mike

EDIT :

And please, i am a jung Student (i am 22). I can not buy all the awesome stuff you would recommend... i would love to get a scarlet ...
but i can't.

So please try to help me out , BMCC or R1 - and if R1 what minimalistic equip do i need to start shooting (i don't need to pay my bills with
the help of the R1)
Click to expand...

Red One will be a very expensive camera, even if the body is a tempting price. Media is more expensive, computing power to deal with it is more expensive, and you need a lot more gear to run it.

It will also be much more difficult to use compared to the BMCC. If you are shooting without a crew, you are going to have a very steep learning curve for figuring out how to transport your gear + operate your camera correctly + pay attention to what you are supposed to be shooting.

If the main thing you are looking for is slow motion, and since you already have EF lenses, try a 5diii or a 7d + twixtor. It will probably be far far simpler, and allow you to put more energy into other things that will matter more than the total resolution. Lens selection and composition and lighting can be far more important than fps or resolution (unless you are shooting hollywood features).

You could spend a day or weekend with a rental Red One, then a rental Epic, then a rental EOS dslr, and see what works for you before ditching your current camera for an unknown setup.

-n
 
First, identify the types of projects you plan to shoot. Also, think about your style of shooting. One man's "heavy rig" is another man's "lightweight rig". Many of today's younger shooters might not have made it twenty or thirty years ago if they think a Red One is heavy. We can certainly argue ergonomics (not Red One's strength) but if you shoot mostly on sticks, jib, dolly, etc. weight won't be as much of an issue. If you shoot handheld all day, everyday then yes you'll need an easy rig or something to help.

There are tradeoffs no matter which way you go. Red One is an older generation camera and has been EOL'd. But if you can get a good kit with an SSD module and maybe some spare parts, you can probably keep it going for a few years. By that time, more cameras will be out there and your choices will grow even more.

Yes, the BMCC is a nice camera. I have seen some very good footage from it. But Robert pointed out one of it's major flaws which is aliasing/moire. It can get nasty. I have the BMPCC and like it but run into problems with aliasing a lot.

You can get a Metabones Speedbooster and that really changes the BMCC and the BMPCC. In fact, the new ones get it close to Super35. Very impressive piece of glass. There are minor tradeoffs when using these, not enough to not use them. Changes the camera dramatically. But again, without an OLPF you will have to be careful of aliasing.

ProRes on the BMCC is not as well implemented as ProRes on the BMPCC. Perhaps a firmware update will fix that. Speaking of which, it's been a while since BMCC has got a significant one. Even Red has released one for the Red One recently.

Ultimately, it comes down to what you think is a better image maker. I think the Red One is the better camera overall, but you can certainly argue that BMCC provides some nice DR, good skin tones out of the box, and is capable of making decent motion pictures if you are skilled as a cinematographer.

The best route for lenses is Nikon because you can adapt them to so many cameras with mounts/adapters that are readily available. You can get a few of them at decent prices.

I would get a hold of a red one and do a side by side with your BMCC and then decide based on what looks better to you visually. Don't let people scare you off about the weight. If it's heavy, workout. When I am consistently working out, my R1 rig which is about 15-25lbs depending on config doesn't feel very heavy to me. When I've been taking time off from the gym, the thing feels like a tank and the cases seem a lot heavier too. :-)
 
Robert Ruffo New said:
Our R1 weight 14 pounds fully rigged. People add lots of useless junk to their cams that serves no real practical purpose (like endless 19mm rails). Not sure why, I think it's some silly macho thing.
Click to expand...

Hi Robert,

Can you give me a breakdown of what you've got on your R1 to get it down to 14 pounds? My barebones kit is at 16 pounds with a small Nikon prime, no follow focus or matte box, and that would be with battery belt clip.
 
I measure without lens, because the lens it what it is, not really related to the camera. You can choose any lens with any camera and it will weigh the same.

Our real trick is Long Valley 15mm front rails and top mount (with strapped on Red MAG Drive/ Drive is most of the weight over cam-only 10lbs)) Battery is on belt clip (also not counted) . LCD is extremely light.

Matte Box is counted (Vocas 4x4)

There is just no need for heavy gak.
 
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