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Ursa Mini Disclaimer

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Derek Carlson

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Ouch. Found this on the LensRentals website about the Ursa 4.6k -

WARNING:
We cannot recommend this product for professional work. We reached this decision after repeated failures in the field, experienced both first-hand by LR-folks and second-hand via rental clients. Though it might work much of the time, it is our opinion that this product’s performance is too unpredictable to be trusted on high-value projects. Use for casual testing or try-before-you-buy purposes only.

Glad I decided to go with RED.
 
I still don't know why people buy cameras from BM, given the track record of poorly designed, under featured and just plain bad cameras.
 
Jon Carr said:
I still don't know why people buy cameras from BM, given the track record of poorly designed, under featured and just plain bad cameras.
Click to expand...

I think they had (maybe still) the best professional features for the price.
Also Kinefinity had lot's of problems too.

To me the Raven and Scarlet-W are a true gifts to professional filmmakers. Reliability, Customer Service, Features, Image. You can swap all these words. <3 :D
 
Jon Carr said:
I still don't know why people buy cameras from BM, given the track record of poorly designed, under featured and just plain bad cameras.
Click to expand...

Low price. Sucker punches people every time.

UM4K/46.K are the flagship models, as these products drive downstream sales. And all of revenue action collectively and indirectly fund the development of Resolve and Fusion, which is benefiting alot of users outside of the BM hardware arena.
 
This has been there for a while. BMCC had the same warning, Pocket camera, even the Dbolex has similar "warnings". I believe this is due to the amateur crowd that is renting these products and are unaware of the "quirks" that these lower priced cameras have. Not defending BM as I think the company and the way grant runs it is shit and thats why I bought a RED. Their cameras, when you get a good one, pump out a stellar image that compares to an alexa in the right hands, at a price RED can't compete with. But their quality control is beyond pathetic.
As for the warnings though, BM has had their cameras used on quite a few blockbuster films, as Crash cams and C cams etc, so I think LR's warnings are a little heavy handed and more so in place to protect themselves against possible litigation in the event of a failure on set. Just my 2 cents
 
Jon Carr said:
I still don't know why people buy cameras from BM, given the track record of poorly designed, under featured and just plain bad cameras.
Click to expand...

I use them because I like the character of the images it produces (wich is far from perfect).
Strange that they are the only camera having 16G HDSDI output. This could have been a big + in Weapon's monitoring path. I would have imagined that RED, wich were the first 4k advocate, would have put this in their specs (or 4k HDMI)
 
Patrick Tresch said:
I use them because I like the character of the images it produces (wich is far from perfect).
Strange that they are the only camera having 16G HDSDI output. This could have been a big + in Weapon's monitoring path. I would have imagined that RED, wich were the first 4k advocate, would have put this in their specs (or 4k HDMI)
Click to expand...


I alway felt, particularly early on, RED policy was to avoid any signal or codec that undermined the value of RED RAW. It was the selling proposition that hoisted the camera above others. So having a 4K signal out would have taversed RED RAW. Just my thinking.
 
I understand your point Halsell, but things have changed a lot with Weapon and the 4k 4444 codecs.
I bet there would be more 4k video villages. We probably should go back to the SD Balck/white video tap to get rid of the curious peoples on set! ;-)

Pat
 
Also, the cynic in me says it would also affect recordable media sales.
 
I had 2.5K one, never failed me, great image, good DR. Sold it as I had no use for it after getting Dragon. I would definetly get couple of 2.5K on sale just for a short movie or something, it has a very filming ARRI like feel to it (again, if used, lit and graded properly)
 
Well, after a long time considering purchasing a Red Scarlet, I have brought an URSA mini 4.6k. Price was an issue, I make my money with photography, and this is only a starting point for my motion.

I was really wanting red to make the hybrid stills/motion camera they promised for a long time, but the files or features never got to a practical solution for me. I mean, maybe the 8k dragon, but this is can't be justified as a tool at its price.
So the URSA mini has been purchased as a stand alone motion camera without trying to do stills with it. I really like the files, better than the files out of the red so far (my experience is an scarlet mx and an original red that was rented- and watching a lot of tests). . I will keep testing, but it seems really good. I haven't got a magenta issue. The colour is great out of the box and seems to grade really well, especially with the highlights.
The camera is a really nice form factor, it doesn't need to be rigged very much. Its lightweight- as in its about the weight of an alexa mini. You can strip down and use the side monitor and its really small and light and has everything you need in a single package.
The evf is better than the zacuto imo- sharper and smaller (although I haven't used the "eye" one). There is a bit of delay, but I have seen delay with the gratical as well.
It is so cheap, that if I shoot more motion over my stills I will just pick up a spare camera as a backup- second cam. This will still be cheaper that a scarlet w with the gear needed to run it.
Coming from a stills world that I have two of almost everything, I can see having two camera for motion a quick and professional way to shoot. One camera can be getting setup while still shooting with the first. At this price range it is a no brainer.

I am quite disappointed in Red with their earlier promises. I really wanted the Red stills camera with the large sensor, but its too late now. The URSA mini seems like the right solution for me. But I'll check back after using it for a few more months, hopefully it is still running fine.

paul
 
Doug Beatty said:
If anybody could Frankenstein the BMD 4.6K sensor and color science into an AJA Cion form factor and priced it at $5K, then you have something worth buying.
Click to expand...

Funny stuff or put the 4.6K into the CION and price it at $4,994. Forgot, while at it take the Varicam LT control panel and attach it to the CION. I was actually gifted a CION from a client that couldn't pay their bill. Sadly, the sensor is the only thing wrong with the camera, other than not being able to capture raw.:smile5::smile5:
 
I bought one for personal projects. For any job where the budget is high enough to require a Red or an Alexa, I'll rent. For everyone who is asking why someone would buy one, I can only offer my personal rationale:

-I have owned a BMCC and Pocket camera for years and have had zero issues with either. And I used them professionally and had happy clients and referrals from the work.
-You can't argue with the image quality.
-I have the body, evf, v-mount plate, 3x 128gb cards, shoulder kit and 2x 150wh v-mount batteries for less than $8k. Red's least expensive would be thousands more for a kit like that.
-BMD's rep might have kept me away if I was using it commercially; but again for personal projects, I'm the producer and don't have to care what anyone else thinks of the nameplate on my camera.
 
Just to shed more light on what the warning means, one of the guys over on bmcuser emailed them to ask why they have the disclaimer up. It was a bit suspicious because they put it up pretty much as the camera was released, but they did respond with their reasoning. It sounds like they had a lot of issues with the bigger ursa and assumed that the new one will be more of the same.

Link: http://bmcuser.com/showthread.php?1...ofessional-use&p=204861&viewfull=1#post204861

Thanks for reaching out to us! Here is a list of regular customer complaints for the URSA camera series:

- Intermittent audio and signal interference through XLR ports
- Fixed pattern noise interference recorded in the image
- Dropped frames during HFR acquisition (even approved cards/frame rates)
- Memory card corruption (loss of important data)
- Camera settings changing on their own
- Scan mode/field order issues on recorded footage
- Choppy/no playback of recorded footage
- Color changing/inaccurate LCDs
- General overheating problems

We have only offered the URSA 4.6K for a couple of weeks, so it was given the benefit of the doubt for the first few rentals; although, some of these issues having started popping up already, so now it is getting the same treatment as all other URSAs we rent. Refunds are no longer given for issues with these cameras. Please let us know if you have any more questions/concerns, and have a nice day!

Kris Steward
LensRentals.com
 
Fahnon Bennett said:
Just to shed more light on what the warning means, one of the guys over on bmcuser emailed them to ask why they have the disclaimer up. It was a bit suspicious because they put it up pretty much as the camera was released, but they did respond with their reasoning. It sounds like they had a lot of issues with the bigger ursa and assumed that the new one will be more of the same.

Link: http://bmcuser.com/showthread.php?1...ofessional-use&p=204861&viewfull=1#post204861

Thanks for reaching out to us! Here is a list of regular customer complaints for the URSA camera series:

- Intermittent audio and signal interference through XLR ports
- Fixed pattern noise interference recorded in the image
- Dropped frames during HFR acquisition (even approved cards/frame rates)
- Memory card corruption (loss of important data)
- Camera settings changing on their own
- Scan mode/field order issues on recorded footage
- Choppy/no playback of recorded footage
- Color changing/inaccurate LCDs
- General overheating problems

We have only offered the URSA 4.6K for a couple of weeks, so it was given the benefit of the doubt for the first few rentals; although, some of these issues having started popping up already, so now it is getting the same treatment as all other URSAs we rent. Refunds are no longer given for issues with these cameras. Please let us know if you have any more questions/concerns, and have a nice day!

Kris Steward
LensRentals.com
Click to expand...


I am sure the URSA mini will have a few issues. I have been one many TVC's that had original Red one's with issues too. One TVC had two cameras for exactly that reason, to save on restart time and hide problems from the client. I am sure the newer reds are bullet proof, but I haven't seen that much of them as all the TVC's I have worked beside have been with arri's. I am betting on BM to sort out these with their firmware, just like Red did eventually. But I have had corrupt cards with canon cameras, the 5dmk3 over heating while videoing.

I know they are a bit of a gamble. No problems for me so far, and will keep a record of any issues in the next few months.

paul
 
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