Urgent - Buying light kit

[Essor]

Hello,

Due to the intricacies of financing, I only have about 24 hours to decide on a rather large light kit, to be used for everything from commercials and music videos to film production.

The budget is anywhere between $40k and $70k.

What would you include in such a kit? How would you make it up to best suit those needs and the way you approach them?

I'm looking for any opinions, the more varied and personal, the better.

Big thank you in advance.

 

[Richard Foster]

I have recently been using LEDs and love them. I have a client that manufactures them. I also have always loved tungsten, especially MR fixtures, for interior sets. I also like flos, but have never been a really big fan of HMIs, IMO they have a greasy feel, but many like them and use them.

It also depends a lot on what your preferred key light level is as to what size units you are going to want. Also how big your sets and locations are anticipated to be.

Also are you a production company or a rental house? If the former your personal preferences are paramount, if the latter what will your clients be looking for and will you have enough inventory/knowledge to compete.

I know you said you had to buy right away but styles vary so much you would do better to rent at first on your productions and then with experience decide on your ideal kit.

 

[Richard Foster]

There is also so much more you need in terms of basic grip stuff - C-stands, silks, solids, nets, clamps, cabling, etc., etc. There is a lot of money in this stuff too. And it's essential stuff.

 

[Richard Foster]

I have also built some lights just for specific purposes. Do not neglect custom as your knowledge grows.

 

[Essor]

Thanks for the answer Richard.

It's going to be a bit of both. Production and rental.

I'm looking to cover all bases as much as possible. I won't be the only one working with this.

It's actually going to be several cameras, an Epic, a Scarlet, several DSLRs, with a couple sound kits and a large light kit.

I've never owned lights, I did some research into buying a couple years ago, but things change quickly.

So if you had between 40 and 70k to invest in lights right now, and it would have to be a rather large and flexible kit, what would you purchase, in broad strokes.

 

[Ariel Weiss]

Joker 800 + bug a beam for xenon-like effect
Kino vista beam
Check this:
http://www.screenlightandgrip.com/html/slg_home.html

There are now lots of options, depends on your needs.

 

[Matt W.]

So impossible to answer this question, but I'll give a broad answer based on the sets I've been on and gaffers I've talked with:

Buy name brand if you plan to rent. Arri, Kinoflo, Joker, etc. You can get away with off-brand if you just use the gear yourself, baby it, know its limitations, but when people rent they expect name brands and they will abuse your gear.

Load up on the boring essentials: 300w and 650w Arri fresnels, 1k open face (the desistis are nice and cheap, otherwise I don't like desisti gear, though), 1k soft lights, etc. The four-light Arri kits (three fresnels and a softbox) are nice rental items and durable. So durable... Some people like Lowel brand lights for some reason, but I don't. You can usually identify these people because they look miserable and have burn marks all over their hands.

Everyone loves kino-flos: the 4' four bank is my favorite, 2' two bank is nice, too. There are some awesome higher-end kinoflo fixtures, but they're less popular/totally essential.

The 1.2k Arrisun seems to be a mainstay, but the 1.2k fresnel is almost equally useful... The 400w and 800w Jokers with softboxes are nice. Maybe get a generator? The Hondas are good. A 4k HMI can run off one if everything is modified correctly. Where I live bigger lights (12k HMIs) almost never get rented, but in LA or NYC they get used all the time. But they are expensive.

C-stands, mambo/combo stands, overheads with multiple grades of diffusion in 12'x12' and 6'x6' are always nice. Some people still use ninelights and maxibrutes, etc. Not really sure those are a budget-effective choice, though. Various clamps. Expendables and spare bulbs. Flags and cookies. Reflectors. Stingers. Weird electrical adapters. Clothespins. Ceiling scissors. Photofloods. Streaks-n-tips. Dimmers. Sand bags. Lots of gels, especially CTO/CTB/3026/CTS/minus green, etc.

There's always the "so cool" stuff, such as the modified Joker mentioned above. I also love stage lights for the cheap punch, but I'm not sure how much those get rented when you can buy them for $20.

Honestly, just go to the website of competing rental houses, see what they all list in common, then buy it. A basic kit (fresnels, soft boxes, kinos, small hmis, nets, cookies, diffusion, flags, etc.) is pretty standard. Arri is expensive and gives discounts to no one but I have to recommend their gear... Maybe buy the 1.2k HMIs used. Those are not cheap. Neither are Jokers. I'm not a fan of off-brand HMIs, any of them (love the Powergems ballast, though!). Not really a fan of any HMIs, though, just in terms of them breaking all the time. They're not really that greasy, though...just a little green and really harsh. Indispensable by virtue of there being no alternative.

 

[Patrick Tresch]

Hello,

I've worked with the Reflecting Light System (RLS) and the results are very impressive. Fast and flexible installation.

http://www.afcinema.com/Le-systeme-d-eclairage-Reflect.html

My RLS kit was based on a HMI 800 Bug.

You could add then a 2,5kw HMI par that could be converted to a 4k by switching bulb (and power supply) (it works for us in the 220v countries) for "wider/stronger" light.

Patrick

 

[Bruce Watson]

I'm in the market for lights too, but at a much smaller level. Sigh...

My take on the lighting market is that there is a steady shift away from tungsten. Light in the range of 5000K-5600K is where it all seems to be heading.

At this stage I would tend to avoid tungsten accept for accent lights (back/hair, kickers) where the warm color won't be bad and might even be a good thing. And these I'd buy used as people dump their tungsten.

Keys and fills should be daylight balanced. You might want to keep your kit fairly small and basic -- flos and LCDs. Small fresnels will have to be HMI to be daylight (or you can gel tungstens and loose a lot of light power). Might want to just rent those while we wait for LCDs to get bigger and better.

Rent HMIs when you need harder light, more power, more throw, or more control.

This philosophy (if you can even call it that) would let you do broader stage lighting with, say, flos. Broader and softer key lighting with flos too. Broader fills with flows and reflectors. Some small spots from LCDs, which could also to more controlled fills.

You could use flos with green tubes for nice even illumination of green screens too.

Spend at least half your money on grip equipment. Stands, clamps, trusses, cables, maybe a generator for location work, flags, silks, etc.

Well, that's my take on it, such as it is. Plenty of people here know more and can probably do better for you. I look forward to their posts too.

 

[Matt W.]

I'm of the exact opposite opinion. LEDs have an ugly green cast and render skin tones poorly, tungsten remains the best light for beautiful skin. I would also hate to light a night interior using anything but tungsten lights (and possibly kinoflos). When attempting to match indoor practical sources, nothing beats the same color and character of light. In terms of return on investment, while LEDs may evolve tremendously in the next few years (the current ones aren't very powerful and are very expensive), tungsten is tungsten is tungsten so you won't need to upgrade anything.

That said, I agree with two things thing: tungsten lights are a good purchase used (hard to break, easy to fix); grip equipment is as important as the lights themselves.

 

[Leo Ticheli]

You need three kits, Fluorescent, Tungsten, and HMI. Naturally you need all the grip and light control gear that goes with it. I have had good luck with used Mole Richardson tungsten fixtures, but some things do perish, such as the reflectors, internal wiring, and bulb bases.

I would start with the requirements for the tightest shots and then add more fixtures until the budget is exhausted. In other words, buy what you require for the majority of your work and rent what you use least. I really like large aperture Kino Flo fixtures; perfect softlights, low power draw and cool burning. Some Chimeras for the Tungsten & HMI fixtures. For most small areas, you won't need more than a 1200 HMI for the key.

Don't forget to purchase spare lamps! And cables. And gels. And Gobos, and, and, and...

Good shooting and best regards,

Leo

 

[Patrick Tresch]

I've just surfed on ebay and there are some incredible prices for HMI 1200 fresnel and par, 2,5k...

Tungsten is great but when balancing for 5600kelvin the light could gets less beautiful on skin.

I would go HMI (best power consumption/output ratio) and some kino (not too much).

My 2 cent.

Pat

 

[Henk van den Doel]

With that kind of budget, my first thought would be a big truck. Which includes your first two lights if you're out in the middle of nowhere without a generator

We have some tungsten arri lights here, these are well built and I like them. However if I would expand our standard light kit I would probably mostly look at different sizes than brands (and sorts). A small led light that can be faced up from the floor can help out in certain situations that would require a miracle with big lights on stands.

Some big daylight stuff would be on the top of my list though if I was in your position. Light sources may have a different feel to them or a different color, they still provide light. Which in many cases I would like to redirect and control. So what others have said before about silk, gels, flags and c-stands, I couldn't agree more. The more light from the source, the more there is to tone down, spread, soften, bounce and re-bounce. Which I like in many situations, especially thinking about commercials and music videos. Oh and... big lights make the crew look like they know what they are doing

 

[Essor]

I want to thank each and every one of you for your input, this place never fails to deliver.

If I'm basing this around the Epic, that means great low-light performance - just a very light sensitive camera, and what I would like to believe is this gives me mobility and I don't have to think around trucks and huge generators, I can use somewhat smaller lights and play with the artistry of lighting without having to worry about that large a crew.

With that in mind, what would you use as the biggest light, your go to key-light for
large(r) spaces, if you're shooting the improved Red one or a future Epic. Probably an HMI, but how big.

 

[Clint Lealos]

I'm pretty much going to agree with what Matt W. said. It would look something like this:
1 - 2.5K Arrisun HMI
1 - 1.2 Arrisun HMI
2 - Arri 2K Tungsten
2 - 4 light Tungsten Arri kits (1-1K, 2-650w, 1-300w, chimera, dimmers)
2 - 800W Joker bug kits (lenses and chimera)
2 - 400W Joker bug kits (lenses and chimera)
2 - 4X4 Kino Flo (5600k and 3200k bulbs for each)
2 - 4x2 Kino Flo (5600k and 3200k bulbs for each)
2 - Litepanel 1X1 (full kit with the works, both 5600k wide beam, batteries)
2 - Litepanel mini plus (full kits, 5600k, batteries)
1 - 4 piece 150W tungsten dedo light kits
1 - Honda 3000i HAN generator

All of the grip gear mentioned in Matt W's post and then some. Grip gear is super important. Don't skimp on that part. There is also a ton of expendables you need.

Not sure what that adds up too, but that would cover most of your bases. If anything lose the big expensive Arri 2.5k, and stock up on little stuff. Just my 2 cents...Good luck! Peace.

 

[Justen Nguyen]

Load up on the boring essentials: 300w and 650w Arri fresnels, 1k open face... The four-light Arri kits (three fresnels and a softbox) are nice rental items and durable.
.. Everyone loves kino-flos...

You'd probably want to go with that. As it'll be very popular for renting purposes, and split among several camera units it could be the most versatile in terms of getting a scene lit.

Some people like Lowel brand lights for some reason, but I don't. You can usually identify these people because they look miserable and have burn marks all over their hands.

ROFL :lol: so true.

edit:
wow didn't see Clint's post. That's a very good list I'd say, the bigger lights (2.5k) and the jokers might break your budget though, so if you had to cut something I'd start ther first. And yes don't skimp on grip equipment, that stuff can save your arse in a pinch, especially if your on location.

 

[Nick Gardner]

You are going to want at least a couple of 4ks or 6ks. Day light exteriors, and big windows need a big punch. If you wanted to go cheaper than that, you could do maxi-brutes. B&M does Maxis with the source 4 par reflectors and bulbs (and lenses) put the 750 bulbs in them and they are brighter than par 64 globes and they draw less amps. They also have dichroic lenses for them.

http://bmlighting.com/site/products/mac-tech-hpl/mac-tech-hpl-9-maxi/

Nick

 

[Guy Bryan Holt]

It would look something like this:
1 - 2.5K Arrisun HMI, 1 - 1.2 Arrisun HMI.....

I agree with Chris' choice of head sizes and types, but every one of the HMI, Kino, and LEDs he chose use old ballast technology without Power Factor Correction (PFC) and so he will not be able to run many on a generator as small as a Honda 3000. If instead he paired the HMI with Power Factor Corrected ballasts and used the Kino Parabeams instead, he could run just about his whole package on a modified Honda EU6500is. Where k5600 does not make a PFC ballast, he could pair them and the Arris with the new Power Factor Corrected (PFC) Power-2-Light ballasts. Power-2-Light is the only ballast manufacturer to include Power Factor Correction (PFC) as standard in their 800w, 1200w, 2.5kw/4kw electronic ballasts. Formerly only available in the larger ballasts of other manufacturers, this advanced electronics reduces current spikes and harmonics in the power line and contributes to a more economical use of power than typical electronic ballasts. For this reason, Power-2-Light PFC electronic ballasts enable the operation of both larger HMIs, or more smaller HMIs, off of standard wall outlets as well as our modified Honda EU6500is Inverter Generator.

For example, the 12 Amps that you by using a Power-2-Light PFC electronic ballast will power quite a few more lights when you consider that a PFC Kino Flo Parabeam 400 uses only 2 Amps. For example, it is possible to power a lighting package that consists of PFC 1200, & 800 HMI Pars, a couple of Kino Flo ParaBeam 400s, a couple of ParaBeam 200s, and a Flat Head 80, in addition to a PFC 2.5kw HMI Par with the enhanced 7500W output of our modified Honda EU6500is Generator. Given the light sensitivity of camera Essor will be using, this is just about all the light he will need to light night exterior.

If you haven't already, I would suggest you read the article I wrote for our company newsletter on the use of portable generators in motion picture lighting. In it I cover some of the basic electrical engineering principles behind poor Power Factor, the harmonic distortion it can generate, and how it can adversely affect generators. These power generation issues have been vexing set electricians for years. Use this link for an informative newsletter article that explains the electrical engineering principles behind these issues and how to resolve them.

This article is cited in the just released 4th Edition of Harry Box's "Set Lighting Technician's Handbook" and featured on the companion website "Box Book Extras." Of the article Harry Box exclaims:

"Great work!... this is the kind of thing I think very few technician's ever get to see, and as a result many people have absolutely no idea why things stop working."

"Following the prescriptions contained in this article enables the operation of bigger lights, or more smaller lights, on portable generators than has ever been possible before."​

The article is available online at http://www.screenlightandgrip.com/html/emailnewsletter_generators.html.

Guy Holt, Gaffer, ScreenLight & Grip, Lightng & Grip Rental in Boston

 

[Clint Lealos]

Wow! Really interesting stuff Guy. I followed your link and learned a ton. I can't say I fully understand all of it, but I will read it a few times and hopefully it will sink in. I had no idea this problem even existed, but it seems like the new ballast technology is a big deal indeed. Essor, I think Guy made some good suggestions. Especially if you intend to run a lot of lights on your generator. I don't have much knowledge of generators (until now) but I am curious now if the large diesel generators we see on sets everywhere also suffer from these current spikes and harmonics...Guy? Thanks again for educating me on the principles of electric generators and the importance on lighting systems we use in production today. I love Reduser

 

[Bruce Watson]

I'm of the exact opposite opinion. LEDs have an ugly green cast and render skin tones poorly, tungsten remains the best light for beautiful skin. I would also hate to light a night interior using anything but tungsten lights (and possibly kinoflos). When attempting to match indoor practical sources, nothing beats the same color and character of light.

I don't like the idea of minus green gels on LEDs and flos either. But LEDs of today are considerably better than the LEDs of two years ago. And 95+ CRI flos are more available today than they were two years ago too. Still not perfect, but better.

But yes, tungsten on human skin is beautiful. No argument there.

As to matching interiors, we are in a transition zone on that. The previous US President signed into law the end of incandescent bulbs in the USA. Phase out starts in 2012 (the end of the ubiquitous 100W bulbs), and completes in 2014 (full ban on incandescent sales). As a result of this ban, GE recently announced the shutdown of the last US manufacturing plant making incandescent bulbs.

I have no idea how this effects tungsten bulbs for film/video use. I suspect the industry was exempted, but don't know.

Yes, home owners will hoard their incandescent bulbs. Even production companies. But in just a few years those practicals we'll want to match will be fluorescents and LEDs.

I'm just sayin'. I don't necessarily like it. But it's coming, no mistake. And this, I think, is one of the drivers for people selling off their tungsten lighting.

Another reason is heat and power efficiency.

Finally there is the rise of digital capture and the demise of tungsten balanced film. IOW, the problems of blue channel gain/noise when white balanced for tungsten lighting -- mostly solved by RED and ARRI, but not by Panasonic, Sony, Canon, etc. At least not yet.

I could of course be way off base. Wouldn't be the first time.