Upgrading to Gemini, thought please

[chris ware]

Hey folks, hoping you could give me some insight on this please?

I currently have a Scarlet-W and love it for many reasons. Only disadvantage for me is that it doesn't perform super well in low light.

I just purchased a Komodo, and it's on the way. I have seen many tests and the Komodo seems to work very well in low light.

I am wondering if it would make sense to sell my Scarlet-W and upgrade to the Gemini so I can have the low light feature.

Considering that I have a Komodo coming. Should I keep the Scarlet-W and use the Komodo for low light?

Or is the Gemini upgrade worth it.

thank u!

 

[M Harvey]

I've never used the Gemini, but I don't think there's much doubt it's cleaner in low light. Do you regularly need to rate at 3200?

I have shot both Scarlet-W and Komodo, and I personally didn't notice a huge difference in low light performance-- never tested side-by-side, but both have a noticeable amount of noise in shadows when rated at 1600.

 

[chris ware]

Got ya. Ok, good to know.

How is the Komodo paired with the Scarlet-W as a second camera? Could you easily use both of them together as an A and B camera for a two camera interview?

thank you

 

[M Harvey]

Haven’t tried them side-by-side, but I’m pretty sure they’d match just fine.

 

[chris ware]

Thanks!!

 

[Nathan Korosec]

They will definitely match fine, speaking from experience. Although Scarlet-W doesn’t have IPP2 in camera, you can, of course, extract it in post. Shoot a color chart with both cams and you’ll be good to go!

 

[Nick Morrison]

Hey folks, hoping you could give me some insight on this please?

I currently have a Scarlet-W and love it for many reasons. Only disadvantage for me is that it doesn't perform super well in low light.

I just purchased a Komodo, and it's on the way. I have seen many tests and the Komodo seems to work very well in low light.

I am wondering if it would make sense to sell my Scarlet-W and upgrade to the Gemini so I can have the low light feature.

Considering that I have a Komodo coming. Should I keep the Scarlet-W and use the Komodo for low light?

Or is the Gemini upgrade worth it.

thank u!

Komodo and Scarlet-W will be similar in terms of lowlight, but nowhere near as capable as Gemini - especially when you shoot in LL mode.

That said, Komodo and Scarlet-W are both pretty good in lowlight, and will certainly match each other well.

I guess the question is - do you really need the extreme lowlight ability of Gemini? I'm talking shooting at 3200 and 6400 ISO.

If you're shooting at 1600 ISO, then Komodo and Scarlet-W will be fine, especially with fast glass.

 

[Andrew Reese]

Gemini and Komodo owner here. Came from Scarlet-W before I got Gemini. Gemini is definitely the king of the 3 cameras if I could only own one but they all have positive and negatives you have to understand how to work with each in order to get the best image out of any of them. Gemini is definitely the cleanest of the bunch at 800 ISO and obviously the clear winner when you get above 1600LL and into 3200LL. That being said remember that you sacrifice dynamic range in the highlights when you switch over to LL mode but typically you are more worried about retaining cleaner shadows when you have that need for LL mode anyhow and are in a pinch due to lack of lighting / crew. Just keep in mind LL mode is really for 1600-3200 iso and up in my opinion and if you don't get into 3200 ISO much you won't see a huge advantage of Gemini over Komodo in LL. Scarlet-W always has some grain and is more under-exposure prone so you just have to light properly to get good results out of that sensor if you want max cleanliness (no noise / grain). Of the 3 cameras the Komodo's has the sharpest and most contrasty sensor with Scarlet-W and Gemini kind of tying in second. I find I have to add a little sharpening sometimes on wides with Gemini to get it to feel like it has the microntrast and punch of 6k/8k image if not using super sterile clean glass (i.e. Sigma / Tokina Cine Primes). I shoot a lot of Leica-R and Canon FD with diffusion and if you don't nail focus perfectly or really stop down the Gemini can feel soft at times. Scarlet-W is similar but does have a bit more punch/contrast in the image which makes it feel sharper but it is really an illusion and this smooths out after you grade gemini to kind of be a wash between the two. The softness and low contrast aspects of the Gemini sensor are great for talent / faces but not always great for super detailed wides or action shots (i.e. cars, nature, product, etc.) which is actually an area where I see the Komodo shines outside of poor frame rates. The Gemini is the lowest contrast sensor out of the 3 which I prefer as it allows more flexibility in grading in post and provides somewhat more recoverable highlights (best dynamic range of the 3). Komodo's color is probably the best in terms of being natural/accurate as there is the green tint going on with Gemini / Scarlet W (DSMC2) but Komodo also feels the most "digital" in its rendering of the 3 cameras and I find to really get that silky feel to an image I am always adding diffusion filters to the Komodo to get it to render similar to my Gemini. The Komodo will match with any of the DSCM2 line-up no problem. It cuts with Gemini perfectly and most of the time clients don't even know which camera is which. The Komodo will be great as a B cam on interviews or to live on a gimbal / steadicam, for travel or inconspicuous shooting, or for odd-mounting situations like car mounts, top-downs, etc. It just makes everything so easier having the second little RED to throw around where you need it and to not have to build up and down your A-cam for each changing situation. In terms of Gemini being worth the upgrade over the Scarlet-W that is really a tough question right now in terms of the DSCM3/DSCM2 landscape. I did not upgrade to V-Raptor from Gemini because of the split sensor issue. I did not upgrade from Gemini to Monstro because the price differential was too high just to gain 8K resolution (higher data rates) and a slightly larger sensor (which limits the amount of glass and wide angle focal lengths you can use). At this point in time 5k resolution and a +S35 sensor of Gemini is the perfect "do-all" camera with manageable data rates (wavelet compression), great frame rates, low-light mode, and a very clean/accurate and smooth/silky sensor. I consider the Gemini to be the "Alexa Mini" of the RED line-up and it definitely goes head to head with Alexa sensor the best out of the bunch from what I have experienced. At some point when 8K delivery becomes a thing I will be forced to make a jump into higher resolution cameras but right now if my clients aren't demanding 8k I have decided to stick with Gemini/Komodo and rent Alexa when requested. I am definitely waiting for Raptor XL (internal ND) and the new Arri Mini S35 (Alexa Mini 2) that is coming out soon before I let go of the Gemini... If you are making money with the Scarlet-W and know how to make it shine in terms of workflow then I really don't think an upgrade at this point in time will be beneficial and I would recommend waiting for some newer cameras to be released...

 

[chris ware]

Thank you very much!!! This is the information I was hoping to find. I appreciate everyone's time and efforts here.

There are occasions when I am filming in low light with a wide 2.8 piece glass and wish I had the Gemini. For me to resolve the issue, I need to grab a faster lens which is usually a longer piece of glass and move backwards. I just picked up the Sigma 18-35 f1.8 to hopefully resolve this issue.

Thanks for the detailed response!

 

[BrandonChristensen]

Great camera, and great time to buy with how the price has dropped so much.