UNHAPPY with Used RED-ONE price drop ! :(

[James McLellan]

This thread and the next 40 like it are silly.

 

[Iain Philpott]

No, I am in the supposed queue for a Stage 4 Epic and I completely see where he is coming from. Obsolescence, obsolete etc. I am on the quiver of ordering but there is that nagging feeling.

 

[Rob Ruffo]

I think it's nuts that people are selling Red One MX's and exchanging them with Scarlets. Exchanging with Epic? Yeah, that makes sense. But Scarlet? No way, these $14K Red One MX packages are WAY, WAY, WAY better values than Scarlet, and shoot the same, beautiful footage.

Eventually, people will figure this out and the cost of used Red One MX kits will stop dropping.

Used Red ones dropped as low last time a new Red camera came around. Remember when Stage 2 started and people were "leasing" their cameras? Prices were dropping faster than panties at spring break. That pissed me off too at the time, a lot (not the panties, the price). They needed an 8K deposit in a hurry, and now they need to pay the rest in a hurry, or they want to buy an Epic Stage 4 before the price hike. When these urgent needs pass , a more realistic price point will emerge. For now, realize that people sometimes shoot high end commercials on F3s, so of course you can shoot anything you want with a Red One MX. POTC4 was shot on MX - it's not like that's a 1940s movie - the technology is still current and will continue to be.

Besides, how many Red MXs are for sale right now? 10? That's not a lot of people. When these cameras are sold, where will you get another cheap Red One? Not from us, I can tell you that much. We have a Stage 2 and a Stage 4, but to those who shoot cine-style with a crew the smaller (but less powerful) Scarlet is not appealing. I could care less about 5 less pounds.

 

[Pawel Achtel]

I have a $70,000 Digital Betacam that I would be lucky to sell for $1000...this is nothing new.
What is surprising is how long the Red Ones held their value, they are after all a 5 year old camera.

Agreed. You can even pick up a F900 for under $10k .... 10 years ago it was, what? $90k or something?
I think Red One is keeping its resale value very well, not to mention generous stage 3, where each owner could return it for 100% trade-in....a deal of the century.

But more importantly, if he has not managed to generate return at least 10 times the drop in value from using the camera, he shouldn't be buying the camera.

 

[George D.]

Agreed. You can even pick up a F900 for under $10k .... 10 years ago it was, what? $90k or something?
I think Red One is keeping its resale value very well, not to mention generous stage 3, where each owner could return it for 100% trade-in....a deal of the century.

But more importantly, if he has not managed to generate return at least 10 times the drop in value from using the camera, he shouldn't be buying the camera.

"......stage 3, where each owner could return it for 100% trade-in." Man, I don't know where you got THAT idea.

According to the guys at Red, they take NO trade-ins whatsoever. They told me, that even though our R1 has less than 30 "minutes" of footage shot with it and only 7 months old, they will NOT take it back as a return, or trade. Please explain that if you can?

.

 

[Cüneyt Kaya]

because there was a deadline....you get a 100% trade in when you bought your RED till this xx date.

"......stage 3, where each owner could return it for 100% trade-in." Man, I don't know where you got THAT idea.

According to the guys at Red, they take NO trade-ins whatsoever. They told me, that even though our R1 has less than 30 "minutes" of footage shot with it and only 7 months old, they will NOT take it back as a return, or trade. Please explain that if you can?

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[anne-maree gale]

red price

red price

Really!!!,he states he has shot 30 min on his red,I would really love to get the gig's that pay 10 times the value of his purchase in 30 minutes..Tassie must have huge budget's
Anne

 

[George D.]

Really!!!,he states he has shot 30 min on his red,I would really love to get the gig's that pay 10 times the value of his purchase in 30 minutes..Tassie must have huge budget's
Anne

No, no!! We shoot wildlife. Wildlife. And, specialized wildlife at that. Not commercials, TV movies, or feature films like most of you guys.

We have only been ABLE to shoot 30 minutes worth because animals are that way. Unpredictable, seasonal, difficult, and a real challenge. But, that's what makes it fun.

This is why our budget is so small. We're not talking millions, or even 100s of thousands here.

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[Ted Parkes]

I have a wide range of clients requiring different workflows so my camera purchasing philosophy is .. if the camera can not pay for its self in 18 to 24 months based on daily rental rates its not worth owning. I would rent. I can’t wait to get my Scarlet.

 

[Matt Gottshalk]

No, no!! We shoot wildlife. Wildlife. And, specialized wildlife at that. Not commercials, TV movies, or feature films like most of you guys.

We have only been ABLE to shoot 30 minutes worth because animals are that way. Unpredictable, seasonal, difficult, and a real challenge. But, that's what makes it fun.

This is why our budget is so small. We're not talking millions, or even 100s of thousands here.

.

Then if a $17k camera body Is a stretch for you, I dont see how you'd be buying a $40k+ epic.

Shoot with what you have. Make money. Move on.

 

[anne-maree gale]

George,I was supporting you,I think Pawel,is out of line to put some random figure on who should buy a red.

 

[Mark Toia]

I payed 80k for a SINAR P2 camera... worth about $100 now..
Payed 10K for a Nikon d3... now worth about $500..
A digi betam camera, 165k... worth about 5k now..
XL2 Canon... 10k... cant even give it away now..
I have about 30 different cameras in boxes lying around... and all worth near to nothing.

The greatest think about the RED ONE is it's 4k and you can keep using it for at least another 5 years... THE 4k revolution hasnt even started yet.

Your Future proof camera isn't in the future yet. Just make money with it thill 8k becomes the new format of choice.

 

[Vance Colvig]

I couldn't agree more. I think it is just awful that the car I bought 3 years ago and put 100,000 miles on has lost half of it's resale value. What a bummer. I think automakers should stop making new models and improvements so my resale value will remain higher. Never mind that I bought the best car I could afford at the time and they are reported to last for 300,000 miles. Guess if I can't afford the new model, I will be stuck with the one I have for the next six years. This just isn't fair.

 

[Brian Merlen]

A lot of these cheaper used Red packages have a lot more hours on them, some don't even have the mx sensor upgrade, your not really making an apples to apples comparison against your hardly used Red One... I wouldn't even think about selling it for a Scarlet, maybe if you were getting an Epic, but whats the incentive for a Scarlet? The weight factor, the fast turn ons? I think your Red One will continue to make you money for some time...

PS Mark I am sure some local state school would love an XL2 if you really don't use it. I know this might shock some people who went to film schools, but state schools don't have Red cameras, hell they don't have HD where I am taking a course this semester (to qualify for an NBC internship I needed to take a course to be a "student" again.) Its funny because I bet most students there own HD DSLR's which are at least ten or more years newer then the schools gear.

 

[George D.]

George,I was supporting you,I think Pawel,is out of line to put some random figure on who should buy a red.

Thank you, that's very kind of you.

You're right, no one has the right to tell someone else what camera they should get or if they should get one.

We are all doing the best we can, and that's all anyone can do.

I got the Red-One because I wanted the best for the money, even though some of our clients bitched about it, saying, "...the quality is too good, we can't handle it." Ha, ha, ha!! Sounds like their problem to me.. In fact, in my opinion, the cameras Red Digital Cinema produces, are the best cameras out there regardless of cost.

BTW - An Epic would be real overkill for our kind of documentary television work.

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[Michael Schrengohst]

I have a $70,000 Digital Betacam that I would be lucky to sell for $1000...this is nothing new.
What is surprising is how long the Red Ones held their value, they are after all a 5 year old camera.

My first BetaCam cost $50,000 - sold it for $3,500....

 

[Steve Das]

My first BetaCam cost $50,000 - sold it for $3,500....

A more interesting question is how much revenue(MONEY) you Beta cam and Digi-Beta cam guys were
able to pull out of those cameras before they approached scrap value..? Anyone game..? If you don't
want to give a number just say you made 2X or 4X what the camera cost...

Those days were just before my time but I understand those cameras
had a quite a long life and were sort of only option for people not shooting film at that time.
Somehow I get the feeling shooting budgets have shrunk alot more than even camera prices
these last 20 years.

 

[Björn Benckert]

I have a wide range of clients requiring different workflows so my camera purchasing philosophy is .. if the camera can not pay for its self in 18 to 24 months based on daily rental rates its not worth owning. I would rent. I can’t wait to get my Scarlet.

The evolution is speeding up so I think you should make that 6-12 mounts at the most.

 

[Meryem Ersoz]

That may be the value right now, right this minute, because there are so many used RED ONEs for sale and so many people buying SCARLETs. And people scrambling to buy EPIC before the price increases.

But once all of this pent-up demand is sopped up - there is a good chance that R1 prices might go back up, when the market for them is less saturated than it is right now.

The R1 is still a great camera and still has some features that the SCARLET does not, especially 4.5K. If you don't have to sell it right now, while the market is soft, especially with such low hours - it's quite possible that demand will pick up, not drop off. We have no idea what the future holds, but if Jim is right, and 4K is right around the bend, we may find ourselves right back in a situation where demand exceeds supply.

 

[Andrew clemson]

Our MX kits are much more requested than the EPIC packages at the minute. Go figure.

We're super happy we went stage 2 and kept them around.

I never thought Id see the day when people were choosing the R1 as the "safe" and "proven" option!