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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Underwater Bubble Blowin' Users Group

Re: 8R ultraprime - coop?

Re: 8R ultraprime - coop?

Now the only problem is putting together the cash for a couple of Ultraprime 8Rs.

I wonder if there would be a possibility of using the user group to organize sort of a coop where we could purchase some of these things that most users would only be using a week or two out of the year and set it up almost like a time share where you would own a certain amount of time and say commit only a portion of the time and leave the rest where the owners could rent it and the rent would be paid into the coop. For example the ultraprime 8R costs about 25K US so we sell 20 shares at $1250 apiece. Each user would "own" say 10 days per year (we would have to initially draw lots and also put some rules of about booking or making changes say 30 days in advance). Outside of that any user could rent it for say $75 for additional days and at the end of the year whatever "profit" there was could be distributed. If we wanted to think about 3d we could double the number of "owners" so there would be 2 lenses in the pool and someone who was sure they were going to do 3d could buy 2 shares. (By the it would be okay to buy several shares if you anticipated greater usage) We'd have to talk about outside rentals but it's possible that by renting outside it could pay for itself. The idea of selling only 200 days would be so that everyone has at least a shot at some flexibility in moving days around.

12 mm T2.0 is about 19K US
10 mm T2.1 is about 20K US = about a 16mm on 35slr

By the way - forget Cameron - let's do it ourselves! I'd like to see IMAX size on that baitball of Mark's.

The shot I want to see is when Cameron uses a pair of Redone cameras 4K with the new Arri 8R lenses in 3-D underwater in a cave then projected in 3-D IMAX...it will envelope the audience.

Check out the sample footage clips:

http://www.arri.de/prod/cam/ultra_prime_r8/ultra_prime_r8.htm

I'm sure this lens costs more than a new hybrid car from Toyota:-)
 
Re: Swp44

Re: Swp44

Mark have you ever tried the SWP44 with other lenses i.e. like a 28mm still photo lens on a still camera just to see what the optics are like on a higher resolution optical setup. Or is it only a water contact lens? (If so you could try it by pointing down into the water or a water tank) I'm curious to see how it really holds up - it's not that hard to make a lens like that for the relatively low res of even the HDV camcorders that only use 1 to 1.2 megapixels actual output/700 - 800 lines of resolution, but it is harder to do with really high res stuff like the RED or 8 to 12 megapixel still cameras.

Thanks for posting that Ken,
Damn I gotta get the SWP44 compliant with the housing, that would be awesome to say the least. 117 degrees AOV and almost zero abberation, some tinsy bit in the corners but invisible to the layman.

I second your regards to the manual "Old School" approach. I've also been isolated before with crapped out electrics but no soldering iron! USCWAP (something about a creek without a paddle!!).

Cheers,
Mark.
 
Lens Control is simple mechanical gearing like in these photos depicting a S16 9.5-57 zoom lens with three seperate mechanical rings for zoom/iris/focus...OLD SCHOOL!

Thanks! Ken and Mark.
8Rs are worth the money!
Canon 6.6 to 66 looks like good choice but it will not work in 4K will it?
Did you see any zoom lenses like this but for S35mm?
Yes, I was watching Cave the movie. Nice shots. Do you know what caves they were shooting it in? Not many large underwater caves shown in the movie.
From my experience in the caves, one thing is to shoot close-ups of the caves features.
Completely other thing is to shoot the large completely submerged caverns or caves.
The 30 to 60 zoom range is required then. It is my experience from still photography though. You don’t use the artificial light though, cave have to have small opening somewhere up there, so we are talking natural light. In such conditions these are the best views you can get. When you are down there it is like you are in the other completely different beautiful world.

The two pictures of the gears marked “AuctionSetup” are coming with the enclosure or you buy it separately?
Andrew
 
The Red 18-85mm will be a sweet piece of glass but the FOV at the wide end is the equivalent of a 28mm lens.

Why RED 18-85 is only 28?
28/18=1.555

I think if you use 4K it is S35
S35 size / 35 = 1.09 (24/22) ??? is that correct?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/35_mm_film
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_film_formats

Now RED lenses are rated for S35 or just 35mm? should be for 35mm
So if RED is rated for 35mm (22mm picture width) then S35 of 4K should make this lenses even more wide angle by 1.09 so it should be 18/1.09 = 16.51

or I mixed it all up?
 
Ya baby...

Ya baby...

By the way - forget Cameron - let's do it ourselves! I'd like to see IMAX size on that baitball of Mark's.

Mike I LOVE IT! - That's funny, but alas Cameron will be first cuz he's smart and has the cash. BUT>>>

I am going to ask my 3-D guru if the 8R on the red is the ideal underwater 3-D setup, if so, count me in on the 8R coop for a couple shares and definetly make it a pair - also figure in coop insurance in share costs. Geez what is rental a day $300-500 per lens?

As for the 10mm Zeiss I'm just gonna' write the check if the tests go well.

I think the prime lens chart/test shoot next month(?) with you and George should include the 8R - let's ask George about that?

Will you be in LA anytime, like around NAB, to come see the interoccular 3-D rig based on F900's that I can't wait to adapt to redones making it maybe 1/3 the size, and then put it in a housing made by you and pass it to mark on the bait ball.
 
Hah,
Sounds like I get the fun part of that job. Good stuff, I'm planning to go hit the baitball again in about a week as thats the best time so far as tides go. Three dives over the incoming tide in the channel should get some nice footage. Cameron may have the cash but I live on this baitball, day in day out! Its on my doorstep and I can film the crap out of it daily without having to pay a massive support crew to keep my coffee warm.

Mike, I have not tried the SWP44 in conjunction with any other glass. The lens can be used topside as well as underwater so when I get the chance I will see how I can go about testing it. Being in Palau the possibility of technical expertise and backup, labs for testing grounds etc, are very limited. I know David (h2opixels) was planning to do some tests along those lines with an SWP44 owned by the BBC NHU but not sure if he has the chance to be able to do that anymore. Regarding the 8R purchasing group, I could be interested but I want to make the decision of shooting format and then go for that.

The whole dream of getting RED is very real but unlike some I am not loaded with beer tokens waiting to take charge of #954 and then go out on a shopping spree to make it the biggest baddest cam on the block. It could very well be in my case that I get the cam, wait to be able to get the lenses I need, wait to get the accessories that will allow me to be able to bugger off into the wilderness for a month or so, wait to be able to afford the editing equipment, wait to be able to afford the storage medium.

Lets not also forget that the housings are gonna be just as much as the camera again so belts have to be tightened eh? Whilst I'd love to be able to think, "Yeah, this time next year I'm gonna be shooting 4K", in reality it may be just a little bit further off than that. So Ken, you're probably gonna get the drop on me with your archives but when I get geared up, living in Palau, boy I aint gonna stop.

Cheers,
Mark.
 
It doesn't go away.....

It doesn't go away.....

The bait ball is still surviving the onslaughts. Dived there yesterday on a whim and had a great encounter.

Today is a special day for me. We have an annual event here in Palau we call Shark Week, run by the dive shop where my office premises are located its a week long shark diving extravaganza. Past speakers and guests have included executives from Nat. Geo, Al Giddings, David Doubilet and a whole host of marine biologists, specializing in sharks.

Among this years guests is Rodney Fox, an Australian who survived a Great White Shark attack back in the 60's and who went on to making a very nice living by taking people and film crews out to dive with and film the White Sharks in Australia. His was the support boat for the movie 'Jaws'. Well he's my dive buddy today so I'm hoping to film him with the baitball. Should be a blast. I'll let you know how we get on.

Oh, this is from yesterday.

BaitballGRS.jpg


Cheers,
Mark.
 
Wooww!! Mark, you have a good life...
Great picture, looks like I will get hooked now on sharks instead of caves.

Could you post original size of it, please?
 
Hey Andrew,
Bills still need to be paid in Paradise. Its a great place to live temporarily whilst collecting imagery but for a lifetime??? For me, maybe not. I do realize I will move back to 'Civilization' one day. Maybe sooner rather than later due to RED and the obvious networking I will have to accomplish to get started. Who knows where that will go. Fingers crossed.

Unfortunately we got skunked on the bait ball today. As part of the dive routine I have to dive with the divers who are paying to attend the event. Rodney and I did dive the channel where the bait ball action occurs but the divers stayed too long at the mouth of the channel to be able to also get to the back given the air consumption before the start of the drift through the channel. Such is life. We did happen on a small school of Surgeonfish being hounded by a bunch of Grey Reef Sharks and a huge Dogtooth Tuna which was nice to see.

I'll post an image soonest on my Blog.

Cheers,
Mark.
 
Thank you Mark, I am getting jealous of your life style, not envious, don’t take me wrong. Yes, the best would be to somehow, be in two places at the same time, civilization and in the place, like where you are. Some people in Canada do live 6 months in the big City (Montreal/Toronto/Vancouver) and 6 month, during the winter, down south.
They call them snow birds. I have to find out how they do it or maybe what they do for leaving?

Cheers,
Andrew
 
La Nab

La Nab

I am going to NAB and my brother lives in Manhattan Beach so maybe I can take an extra few days and come see it - flights get a little wierd with 2 stops. any chance they would bring it over to NAB?



By the way - forget Cameron - let's do it ourselves! I'd like to see IMAX size on that baitball of Mark's.

Will you be in LA anytime, like around NAB, to come see the interoccular 3-D rig based on F900's that I can't wait to adapt to redones making it maybe 1/3 the size, and then put it in a housing made by you and pass it to mark on the bait ball.
 
Mike,

You'll REALLY want to see our recent digital 3-D underwater tests in our 3-D screening room and meet the 3-D gurus. The future is now and your housings for our 3-D rigs will be a significant part of the revolution.

Check your pm/email
 
Awww, C'mon Ken.......share and share alike! I'll need to see what I'm gonna be taking with me to the (bait) ball.

Cheers,
Mark.
P.S Check out the blog for a piccie of Rod Fox diving in Palau. He's a hoot.....
 
Mark,

You are included in the loop when next you make it to LA OR when I show up in Palau with the rig. Is jellyfish lake still alive?
 
Mark,

You are included in the loop when next you make it to LA OR when I show up in Palau with the rig. Is jellyfish lake still alive?

I was there a couple years ago and Jellyfish lake was a fun day. Snorkeling only - but dive down and shoot back up through the jellyfish and sunbeams... very cool stuff.

My friends did a dive on the U.S.S Perry when we were there. Too deep for me though - I stayed on the boat. They had a fairly rough dive... not an easy one.
 
No worries Ken. I've only ever flown through LA on a stopover from Europe to Fiji. Maybe make a stop there someday. Guess that means you'll have to come back to Palau!! Jellyfish Lake is still alive and well. Last census was done in 2006 with an estimate of 16.6 million Mastiga Jellyfish inhabiting the lake (+ - 3 million). Don't worry folks, they don't sting.

joelnet - who did your friends dive with? I was part of a team that dove the Perry in 2005. I was contracted to do all the deco stop filming and three team members took PD150's in Amphibico housings to the wreck. In all that expedition made 24 CCR dives on the U.S.S Perry over 5 days without major incidents. The USS Perry lies in 240ft off the southern tip of the southernmost landmass in Palau known as Angauar Island. It was sunk by a Japanese mine toward the end of WWII.

Cheers,
Mark.
 
joelnet - who did your friends dive with? I was part of a team that dove the Perry in 2005. I was contracted to do all the deco stop filming and three team members took PD150's in Amphibico housings to the wreck.

I was with a group led by a guy named Jeff Gourley. I just checked the date - it was summer 2003. I'm pretty sure they were one of the first groups on the wreck after it was discovered.

In a tragic twist of fate 'Deep Sea Detectives' contacted Jeff about his footage but wouldn't pay him (or pay him enough) and dove the wreck themselves. The host of the show died sadly. http://www.cdnn.info/safety/s031211/s031211.html
 
Another design challenge...

Another design challenge...

From Jim:
Drives are cheaper... Flash is better.
If you ask any questions about shock ratings, weather resistance or security, skip right to Flash and do not use Drives. If you are CAREFUL and on a budget, Drives can serve you well.


So, who's gonna' risk drives in their underwater housing? As we all know, it's getting to and from the underwater locations per Jim's statement above that could create heartache in the field.

RED DRIVE 320GB $900

FLASH Options:

RED RAM 64GB $4,500

RED 1.8" SATA Flash 32GB Media approx $1,500
 
No doubt...I think for adventure travel and sports shooting of any kind, especially hand held, Flash is the answer. If it's just a B camera on sticks picking up b-roll, then a drive is fine.
 
Drives and shock

Drives and shock

I wouldn't worry to much about the hard drives. I have the Ikegami Editcams which have used the same laptop drives since 1999. The drive case has little rubber shockmounts in it (and I would assume the REDDRIVE does too). When powered down during transport it would be almost impossible to damage. Even when operating it would take a severe shock to cause a skip - maybe a really nasty wave pounding ride on the boat - but I doubt if anything you can do underwater would be enough.

By the way - comparing to other technologies - HDV is very G sensitive. We shot a show for Discovery HD called "Crash Test Human" where we simulated driving into a canal, where he has to escape underwater. At the end we wanted a POV simulated shot of the car going into the canal. I did a fast walk with the Sony Z1 and as I got to edge of the canal rotated the camera downward. The picture froze for a frame every time (remember HDV is a long GOP MPEG format), so just the minimal G force of my arm movement caused it to burp in a way that never would have happened on intraframe DV or on my hard drive camera.

Further, we have people using Citidisk and Firestore drives in their housings for both HDV and HVX200. We have one customer using a Citidisk HDV and an HDR-HC3 in a housing that gets dragged a couple miles through a pipe at 200 psi for about 3 hours.


From Jim:
Drives are cheaper... Flash is better.
If you ask any questions about shock ratings, weather resistance or security, skip right to Flash and do not use Drives. If you are CAREFUL and on a budget, Drives can serve you well.


So, who's gonna' risk drives in their underwater housing? As we all know, it's getting to and from the underwater locations per Jim's statement above that could create heartache in the field.

RED DRIVE 320GB $900

FLASH Options:

RED RAM 64GB $4,500

RED 1.8" SATA Flash 32GB Media approx $1,500
 
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