Underwater Bubble Blowin' Users Group

[GATES]

Greetings all,

The monitor encloses the RED 5.6" monitor. Both 7" and 5.6" are the same resolution (1024x600), so there is no is no advantage other than size. The LCD - Camera connection is unchanged save for a bulkhead connector in between. Yes, that 'crazy bulk of shielded wires' was a challenge.

Filters can be accommodated on the lens.

Port extenders will be ~$600. More for long macro lenses which require a longer extender.

Regarding the EVF we are asking people to try the LCD first. With an adequate shade (and shade extenders if you wish) I believe it will overcome the objections people have when using the LCD topside (they can't see it). We do, however, listen to our customers and will wrap a shell around the EVF if so desired.

As for EPIC and Scarlet it is impossible to predict compatibility without details on what they actually look like. That said, the ports, lens drives, motor zoom and many other details in DEEP RED will carry forward to future digital cinema housing designs.

J-

 

[Pawel Achtel]

J, I agree with your comment about the EVF - I don't find them practical underwater except for maybe tripod macro work. However, for the same reasons I find the 7" better than the 5" - simply easier to see the detail on a larger screen. But, the 7" would come at an extra bulk, so there are pros and cons of using larger LCD.

Is the monitor housing available separately? I imagine it would be compelling accessory for many existing housings (Aquavideo, etc..).

Filters can be accommodated on the lens.

Unfortunately not. Most cine lenses do not have front filter threads, specially ultra-wide.

 

[Michael Hastings]

Is the monitor housing available separately? I imagine it would be compelling accessory for many existing housings (Aquavideo, etc..).

I actually talked to John at the DEMA show about this. If he is willing it would be pretty easy to use with our housings, we have an external monitor case for the RED LCD but two differences - 1) a little larger and not as slick looking. and 2) The LCD cable is an uncut actual RED cable (we did add shrink tube and "armor" sleeving to the in water portion to protect it) with special compression seals for sealing against the cable with a removable o-ring sealed plate that attaches to the side of the housing on what we call the LCD port with four 8-32 screws. To remove the LCD you have to remove the four screws and replace it with a blank coverplate. A two minute job but not as quick as just unplugging.

The reason we did it that way was that Jarred (last summer?) told me that they had a lot of problems just getting the signals to work reliably with the normal lemo connectors on the longer cables, so were not supporting any third party cables or modified or extended cables and if we cut the cable it was a potential warranty voider. Since the 2 foot cable made things a little tight we requested a longer cable and Jarred got us some prototype 6 footers and then later came out with the 6 and 10 foot cables in the store. Since by then we had figured out how to waterproof it reasonably without cutting, we have stuck with that. And I haven't heard anything (but will ask) regarding whether it would still be a warranty problem if we were to use cut or third party cables. But either way, the waterproof connectors are tough to make (and more importantly to make reliable) for these very compact multiconductor digital cables so they tend to be very expensive (we all use pretty much the same 2 or 3 u/w connector companies) so you could probably buy 2 or three of the RED cables for the cost of the "u/wconnectorized" versions.

Unfortunately not. Most cine lenses do not have front filter threads, specially ultra-wide.

In this case - the RED 18-50, which is the only currently supported lens on the deep red according to the specs I have seen, I don't think that's true. I believe the RED lens has a 72mm (77?) thread.

BTW it has been strongly suggested by a number of people (and I would concur) that the RED 18-50 is a "cine-housed" Sigma 18-50mm f/2.8 EX DC Macro which has the same threads.

If you are wondering, look at the close focus specs of the sigma:

Sigma 18-50 F2.8 Minimum Focusing Distance 20cm/7.9".

****
RED 18-50
Maximum f Stop f/2.8
Close Focus from Lens Front 1.73 inches
Length from Front of Lens to Image Plane 6.16 inches
1.73 +6.16=7.89"
****

It would be extremely unlikely that the two would have those exact same specs and NOT be related. And then maybe go purchase a sigma from b&H for $375 and examine the front and see if you aren't convinced.

http://www.sigmaphoto.com/lenses/lenses_all_details.asp?id=3320&navigator=6

http://www.popphoto.com/cameralenses/4118/lens-test-sigma-18-50mm-f28-ex-dc-macro.html

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/463428-REG/Sigma_581101_18_50mm_f_2_8_EX_DC.html

This is nothing against the RED or sigma lens - it is an excellent lens and the price for the "cine-ized" RED is very good. (I am a century/schneider dealer and if you look at their PL mount rehoused SLR lenses in this range they go for about $15K - and that's for much older designed lenses. The sigma was designed in the last few years and specifically for digital sensors.

The point (besides the obvious price difference) is 1) Now that birger is shipping, if you want that range the Sigma is a very viable option - with excellent focus and iris control without gears - which means you can also easily use other lenses like the Canon 10-22, Tokina 11-16, Canon 60mm, 100mm and 180mm Macros etc. - switching without the need for any gear changes - which would be impossible with a gear system. (And if you are mad at Birger, the Alesniak smart mount should be out soon.)

About half of the 20 or so housings we have delivered were set up to be able to use the RED 18-50 (sometimes with others like the Arri 12, 8R, 14mm, etc.) and some good results were obtained but 18mm really isn't close to as wide as you normally would like to be - remember that 18mm is equivalent to 28.8 mm on an 35mm SLR yet 14, 15, or 16mm lenses are the standard for most high level u/w 35mm photography - with a 20mm being the poor man's u/w wide angle.

Typically on a RED you would want at least a 14mm and would like to get down to the 12 or 10mm range (even for clear, Caribbean type water) to be equivalent to what we have been using in the underwater video world over the past 20 years or so which would be at least 90 to 110 degrees diagonal (Even on inexpensive systems).

RED 4K is (diagonal)
70 degrees at 18mm
84 degrees at 14mm
93 degrees at 12mm
103 degrees at 10mm
115 degrees at 8mm

This is sort of a problem for any geared system as the Cine lenses that we want to use - i.e. the Arri 8R, 10, 12, and to some extent 14mm - are drastically different in physical size and gear position than the more "normal" range 20 to 100mm cine lenses which were typically designed to be the same length and have the gears in the same place for easy lens switching.

 

[Amund Lie]

Topside shooting

Topside shooting

Gates:

Does the design of the battery and disk bracket system allow the camera to be taken fairly quickly out of the housing?

I often find that I need to shoot some topside footage right before or after I dive, but getting a camera in and out of an underwater housing is not usually a rapid undertaking. Does the Deep Red allow me to unmount the camera with the battery and drive still attached and shoot dry?

Amund

 

[Tony Covell]

For No reason, other than its interesting. SCUBACAM have just produced their first RED houseing. They do have a website.
Tony Covell.

 

[Costelloe Michael]

Hey Tony,

Just had a word with them, 4 meters max. so not quite in the same arena as others, but useful for some applications I suppose.

Mike C

 

[Joe Holley]

This is sort of a problem for any geared system as the Cine lenses that we want to use - i.e. the Arri 8R, 10, 12, and to some extent 14mm - are drastically different in physical size and gear position than the more "normal" range 20 to 100mm cine lenses which were typically designed to be the same length and have the gears in the same place for easy lens switching.

This is one of the great things about the Gates housing. The gearing system has been designed (quite nicely) to fit any lens. You can see the gears pretty well in this hi-res image. http://www.marinevisions.com/_/i/g/deepred/deep-red-with%20port.jpg

 

[GATES]

The process for removing the camera from the housing is:

* Remove the port / port extender
* Release the lens gear drives
* Remove the rear shell
* Disconnect the GPIO, LCD and any other connections (audio, HD-SDI, etc)
* Remove two side mount screws and one thumbscrew securing the camera
* Remove the camera

The camera can indeed be used topside withe the top mounted battery/drive bracket. This bracket incorporates the RED Cradle components, so it will familiar to any user. And no, you need not disassemble your RED Cradle. DEEP RED comes with all the necessary bits.

J-

 

[Michael Hastings]

This is one of the great things about the Gates housing. The gearing system has been designed (quite nicely) to fit any lens.

JF while I understand your enthusiasm for the Gates housing, my two points were primarily that because the REAL underwater lenses are those in the 8 to 14mm range and have substantially different gear position than the normal lenses it will require some significant readjustment and that probably WON'T BE a snap process (otherwise I suspect there would be immediate support for other lenses than the RED 18-50 which is not even a GOOD starting focal length - 28MM 35ff equivalent - for UW work much less an IDEAL one.) We have incorporated nice gearing into our housing for the Arri8r which has some flexibility in positioning, and another customer is working on a gearing system with more positioning flexibility.

However, I would be willing to stipulate that the DeepRED will have somewhat more flexible gearing than what we have done (not because we have seen it yet, but I have seen John at GATES' work - and saw the DeepRED at DEMA in October - and I know he is very creative with very high engineering standards so I am sure that was a high priority. BTW The waterproof joystick actuator is a work of art - but I have a comment on maybe a more cost-effective alternative that I'll save for later.)

However, that is working on the presumption that you are using mechanical gears. I have said all along that even if you need to use cine lenses which would normally be due to a client demand since cine lenses don't have any real advantage for U/W (except maybe the superfast, superexpensive masterprime T1.3 14mm), using mechanical gears is kind of a step back into the seventies and that motors were the way to go. While Heden motors and such are expensive - about $2200+ per motor

http://www.abelcine.com/store/product.php?productid=10932&cat=0&page=1

they are not that much more than we have to charge for gearing - and even a full set of Hedens plus our housing would be many about 10K less than a Deepred AND you would own a kickass $6-10K lens motor system for regular use. I have attached a picture of Heden motors being used in one of our housings. Sebastian in Germany had a one day commercial shoot but wasn't sure he wanted to go whole hog on a new housing, so I sold him the 2nd prototype pvc one that we made in December 2007. He got the housing on Friday for the shoot on Tuesday, so all of the work you see was done by him over a weekend. You can see that he left some adjustment on the motor mounts for back and forth movement to accommodate different lenses and given more time to design it, I am sure that type of rig could accommodate more adjustment.

The reason we haven't done more of this is most don't have those gears (Sebastian already owned the Hedens) and many of the purchasers have been video crossovers so wouldn't have needed motors. (And quite frankly when I quoted $2k per gear for a gear setup, most decided against it.)

So they have either been waiting for the Viewfactor Impero/Inclino motor setup for the RED which are only $1295 per motor,

http://www.viewfactor.net/khxc/index.php?app=ccp0&ns=catshow&ref=Inclino1

or the Birger Canon EOS mount - WHICH WAS REALLY THE MAIN POINT OF THE POST - that the smart mount/SLR lens combination is by far the easiest to use and most flexible solution in terms of multiple lens capability and with some additional capabilities that are soon to be announced this will be even more true - EVEN SETTING ASIDE THE PHENOMENAL FINANCIAL BENEFITS.

So the bottom line is: 1) we can do mechanical gears - expect to spend about $2K per gear. 2) We can do motors - expect to spend $6-8K and

3) We can do birger - expect to spend about $5500 TOTAL!!! for mount+lens controller+underwater lens controller (iris/focus) AND PLUS a kickass F2.8 11-16mm superwide zoom, PLUS an f2.8 100mm macro, and PLUS an F2.8 17-55mm zoom with image stabilization for normal shooting - all of which could be instantly changed with no gearing adjustment needed.

ALL of those lenses are AT LEAST AS GOOD OPTICALLY as the RED 18-50 and quite probably slightly better (I believe the sigma is optically this $375 lens:

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/463428-REG/Sigma_581101_18_50mm_f_2_8_EX_DC.html

The 17-55 gives an even better zoom range PLUS optical image stabilization which NO cine lens has and is based on the very latest digital friendly L-type optical components and construction. (Canon has stated that they don't give any EF-S lenses the "L" designation to avoid confusion, i.e. that ALL L-series will work on full frame SLRs. The EF-S lenses only cover the smaller EOS40D and RED S35 sized digital sensors).

Food for thought.?

-------------

PS. For those that haven't been around for awhile: The price for the AquaVideo RED aluminum housing with standard power, trigger, white balance/user/focus assist buttons plus two controls for friction focus and friction iris; mountplate for camera, reddrive, red battery plate, and LCD mounted at rear and visible through the back plate; interchangeable port system with standard 6" acrylic dome; is $8,599.

Optional controls for friction zoom, rear lcd controls and user buttons, etc. are $125 each. Mechanical gears $2K per gear set.
Optional 8" acrylic dome is $429, Extended length Macro/long lens port $429, 1/2" extension rings, $109, and 8" AR coated glass dome frontplate $2399 (simple frontplate swap - no need for removal of other port from std. frontplate.)

All of these items have been shipping for many months.

CLICK ON THE PHOTOS TO ENLARGE.

The photos show the 1) Heden motors in housing 2) Gears we used in the 3) housings from almost a year ago, with the housing on the left using those gears and the one on the right using simple friction controls for the 18-50 and 4) A housing I put together for myself (although didn't get to use since a customer bought it out from under me.) with 2 controls on top and 3 side controls to hit the iris buttons on the birger because until now we didn't have control knobs. The two top controls allowed shifting focus and zoom on the Canon 10-22 but those same control positions plus one at the spot with the red dot would also (with slightly different shafts) control the RED 18-50 iris/focus/zoom using friction to move the rings. The lights are our SuperNova 350s (9800 lumens per head by the way and sold by us since the Mid-80s) with lithium ion battery and special lightweight battery case to keep us near neutral. The funny looking grey things are bouyancy blocks which make the head neutral. The mounting was a kind of a rig, I am working on a slicker mountplate for the battery cases with a quick release to simplify getting in and out of water - although it isn't that bad as is.

 

[Joe Shemesh]

JF while I understand your enthusiasm for the Gates housing, my two points were primarily that because the REAL underwater lenses are those in the 8 to 14mm range and have substantially different gear position than the normal lenses it will require some significant readjustment and that probably WON'T BE a snap process (otherwise I suspect there would be immediate support for other lenses than the RED 18-50 which is not even a GOOD starting focal length - 28MM 35ff equivalent - for UW work much less an IDEAL one.) We have incorporated nice gearing into our housing for the Arri8r which has some flexibility in positioning, and another customer is working on a gearing system with more positioning flexibility.

However, I would be willing to stipulate that the DeepRED will have somewhat more flexible gearing than what we have done (not because we have seen it yet, but I have seen John at GATES' work - and saw the DeepRED at DEMA in October - and I know he is very creative with very high engineering standards so I am sure that was a high priority. BTW The waterproof joystick actuator is a work of art - but I have a comment on maybe a more cost-effective alternative that I'll save for later.)

However, that is working on the presumption that you are using mechanical gears. I have said all along that even if you need to use cine lenses which would normally be due to a client demand since cine lenses don't have any real advantage for U/W (except maybe the superfast, superexpensive masterprime T1.3 14mm), using mechanical gears is kind of a step back into the seventies and that motors were the way to go. While Heden motors and such are expensive - about $2200+ per motor

http://www.abelcine.com/store/product.php?productid=10932&cat=0&page=1

they are not that much more than we have to charge for gearing - and even a full set of Hedens plus our housing would be many about 10K less than a Deepred AND you would own a kickass $6-10K lens motor system for regular use. I have attached a picture of Heden motors being used in one of our housings. Sebastian in Germany had a one day commercial shoot but wasn't sure he wanted to go whole hog on a new housing, so I sold him the 2nd prototype pvc one that we made in December 2007. He got the housing on Friday for the shoot on Tuesday, so all of the work you see was done by him over a weekend. You can see that he left some adjustment on the motor mounts for back and forth movement to accommodate different lenses and given more time to design it, I am sure that type of rig could accommodate more adjustment.

The reason we haven't done more of this is most don't have those gears (Sebastian already owned the Hedens) and many of the purchasers have been video crossovers so wouldn't have needed motors. (And quite frankly when I quoted $2k per gear for a gear setup, most decided against it.)

So they have either been waiting for the Viewfactor Impero/Inclino motor setup for the RED which are only $1295 per motor,

http://www.viewfactor.net/khxc/index.php?app=ccp0&ns=catshow&ref=Inclino1

or the Birger Canon EOS mount - WHICH WAS REALLY THE MAIN POINT OF THE POST - that the smart mount/SLR lens combination is by far the easiest to use and most flexible solution in terms of multiple lens capability and with some additional capabilities that are soon to be announced this will be even more true - EVEN SETTING ASIDE THE PHENOMENAL FINANCIAL BENEFITS.

So the bottom line is: 1) we can do mechanical gears - expect to spend about $2K per gear. 2) We can do motors - expect to spend $6-8K and

3) We can do birger - expect to spend about $5500 TOTAL!!! for mount+lens controller+underwater lens controller (iris/focus) AND PLUS a kickass F2.8 11-16mm superwide zoom, PLUS an f2.8 100mm macro, and PLUS an F2.8 17-55mm zoom with image stabilization for normal shooting - all of which could be instantly changed with no gearing adjustment needed.

ALL of those lenses are AT LEAST AS GOOD OPTICALLY as the RED 18-50 and quite probably slightly better (I believe the sigma is optically this $375 lens:

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/463428-REG/Sigma_581101_18_50mm_f_2_8_EX_DC.html

The 17-55 gives an even better zoom range PLUS optical image stabilization which NO cine lens has and is based on the very latest digital friendly L-type optical components and construction. (Canon has stated that they don't give any EF-S lenses the "L" designation to avoid confusion, i.e. that ALL L-series will work on full frame SLRs. The EF-S lenses only cover the smaller EOS40D and RED S35 sized digital sensors).

Food for thought.?

-------------

PS. For those that haven't been around for awhile: The price for the AquaVideo RED aluminum housing with standard power, trigger, white balance/user/focus assist buttons plus two controls for friction focus and friction iris; mountplate for camera, reddrive, red battery plate, and LCD mounted at rear and visible through the back plate; interchangeable port system with standard 6" acrylic dome; is $8,599.

Optional controls for friction zoom, rear lcd controls and user buttons, etc. are $125 each. Mechanical gears $2K per gear set.
Optional 8" acrylic dome is $429, Extended length Macro/long lens port $429, 1/2" extension rings, $109, and 8" AR coated glass dome frontplate $2399 (simple frontplate swap - no need for removal of other port from std. frontplate.)

All of these items have been shipping for many months.

CLICK ON THE PHOTOS TO ENLARGE.

The photos show the 1) Heden motors in housing 2) Gears we used in the 3) housings from almost a year ago, with the housing on the left using those gears and the one on the right using simple friction controls for the 18-50 and 4) A housing I put together for myself (although didn't get to use since a customer bought it out from under me.) with 2 controls on top and 3 side controls to hit the iris buttons on the birger because until now we didn't have control knobs. The two top controls allowed shifting focus and zoom on the Canon 10-22 but those same control positions plus one at the spot with the red dot would also (with slightly different shafts) control the RED 18-50 iris/focus/zoom using friction to move the rings. The lights are our SuperNova 350s (9800 lumens per head by the way and sold by us since the Mid-80s) with lithium ion battery and special lightweight battery case to keep us near neutral. The funny looking grey things are bouyancy blocks which make the head neutral. The mounting was a kind of a rig, I am working on a slicker mountplate for the battery cases with a quick release to simplify getting in and out of water - although it isn't that bad as is.

Hi Michael,
It's incredibly frustrating to try and get your attention this way, but since you don't seem interested in replying to repeated e-mails and phone messages (even though as a customer we paid you US10,000 back in early December 2008) this will hopefully serve as a warning to others. Your total disregard to repeated inquiries regarding delivery of our purchase is nothing short of astounding. We sent you monies in good faith - now get your
F?????G act together and at least have the balls to get in touch with us and let us know what the hell is going on with our delivery!!!
Since it's inception, REDUSER has helped bring together a tight community of like-minded professionals who's dealings are always in good faith, don't take it upon yourself to destroy this reputation!!!

Joe Shemesh

 

[GATES]

Pawel,

To answer your earlier question: yes, we will sell just the monitor housing separately. It will require that we make the mating bulkhead cable assembly as well. You'll get mounting instructions/tap sizes too.

Contact me by PM for other details.

John

 

[Michael Hastings]

Hi Michael,
It's incredibly frustrating to try and get your attention this way, but since you don't seem interested in replying to repeated e-mails and phone messages (even though as a customer we paid you US10,000 back in early December 2008) this will hopefully serve as a warning to others. Your total disregard to repeated inquiries regarding delivery of our purchase is nothing short of astounding. We sent you monies in good faith - now get your
F?????G act together and at least have the balls to get in touch with us and let us know what the hell is going on with our delivery!!!
Since it's inception, REDUSER has helped bring together a tight community of like-minded professionals who's dealings are always in good faith, don't take it upon yourself to destroy this reputation!!!

Joe Shemesh

Joe:

My apologies for the delays and lack of responsiveness, there is no good excuse - this should have happened quite a while ago and I will get this taken care of in the next few days.

Not an excuse, well, maybe it is, but by way of explanation, since this is now on a public forum:
1) I got married November 13th so with the moving/integration of two families things have been even a little more disorganized than usual,

2) You changed the order from the proforma invoice that I had sent, from an aluminum housing to a PVC housing and because you added the glass dome option the dollar amounts came out about the same on the wire transfer and I didn't even realize the change for a little while. I had several aluminum units nearly ready at the time we originally spoke and have actually delivered those a while ago to a couple of other customers that ordered about the same time, but no PVC units were on hand (other than the used one I sold Sebastian).

3) I had decided to go to the thicker wall PVC that is about the same thickness as the aluminum so I had to order that since I didn't have a long enough piece on hand for the RED housing.

4) Then it turned out I needed to make a slightly different set of mountplates because the ID is just slightly different than the aluminum and the height wasn't right for the standard lens position and, while it was fairly easy to setup and put a slightly different hole position on the normal frontplate because it is cut from just one side out of a large disc that already has the threaded hole in it so it is just setting a different center position in the program, I can't do that on the glass dome plate because it is a very complicated setup and has to be machined from both sides, so I have to make the mountplates fit the frontplate rather than the reverse. None of this is huge stuff, but it takes some time and setups on the CNC, etc. and wanting to make multiple parts for more of the PVC units to be somewhat efficient, AND there were a couple times where I said "let me take a day or two to get this other guys aluminum housing finished and out the door and then I can focus"

5) Production work gets fairly disjointed during the week because I also have to spend a lot of time on the phone with sales calls, or questions, daily Birger mount updates, etc. (and I honestly was on the phone with another overseas call yesterday when you called). Usually I can take the weekends to catch up and actually get things done, but with the recent marriage I have been trying to be a little more of the family man on the weekend.

6) As you know Birger mounts are actually starting to ship, but the knob situation is still delayed and also the new standard knob setup isn't that great for our underwater stuff so I decided to go ahead and make our own control circuit board (I made a brief pre-announcement about this on the birger thread a couple days ago.) And I decided to make this a crash priority for two reasons: first because a lot of current owners plus most of the new ones (including you Joe I believe) are pretty desperate for the Birger mount to work in their housings and second: because a long time friend that is an excellent hardware/software guy that has made boards for me in the past just got downsized out his job and I wanted to seize the opportunity to get this done while he was available. We are finished with my part and it goes to the circuit board manufacturer next week, so I can refocus on getting housings done.

Small, semi-custom manufacturing is quite a juggling act and I dropped the ball on your order. But I promise your housing is now the priority, and apologize for the neglect.

I'm a little bummed that this became public, but maybe it is for the best. My service and support has been very up and down over the last year (really the last couple years with the divorce/life changes). And things have been compounded with the RED housings because besides the normal changes that happen early in the development, there were several things we expected to happen quicker that altered various orders (in particular the birger mount which for a year was shipping "next week") and made things more difficult.

So, to Joe and to my other customers, I apologize but also assure you that I'm not out to screw anybody and things usually get worked out reasonably. My life is settling down quite a bit and I really expect things to run a lot smoother in the future.

And we just finished another run of our SuperNova lampheads (which I had put off for over a year) which make a really nice compact, highpowered (250 and 350 watt) package for the RED housing as well.

The AquaVideo RED housing design as it is now has come together pretty well - compact size with a great deal of flexibility. Whether you choose PL, nikon, or Canon EF lens solutions I don't think you will find anything that performs substantially better at any price, and then when you consider price I think the choice is a no-brainer. We have delivered about 20 units over the past, year so it hasn't been all bad, and I will work hard to make sure that as we move forward delivery is more consistent.

 

[catfeesh]

underwater beginner

underwater beginner

Hello everyone,
The past couple years, I've been dropping in from time to time reading some of the posts. There is an immense amount of information here on the forums, and I'm trying to get through it all. Some of it is way over my head, but I'm trying to learn.

I would like to get into underwater filming, especially shallow water macro. I think video is a powerful tool for learning and want to get people stoked about the living world.

I do not have experience shooting video of red quality, but I come from an animation background, and have experience in the film making process, editing, and underwater photography.
The technicalities of the red one itself is somewhat overwhelming to me, let alone going underwater so I'm hoping to get some advice.

My questions...

1)What major technical hurdles, or equipment expenses can a beginner expect to encounter attempting to go underwater (with a red one)?

2)Other than the Gates, and AquaVideo housing, are there any other manufacturers out there at this time?

3)Do you have any lens, or gear recommendations for shooting macro?

4)Is anyone kicking themselves for getting into this field of work?

Thanks,
-Richard

 

[Pawel Achtel]

Welcome to the forum, Richard.

For macro I would be looking at Scarlet 2/3", not a large sensor camera. The reason is higher DOF. Sharpness is never a problem with macro. Even some standard definition shots can look very attractive. Even with 2/3" sensor, the DOF is ofeten less then a millimiter!!!

1)What major technical hurdles, or equipment expenses can a beginner expect to encounter attempting to go underwater (with a red one)?

For me and most others the equipment cost combined with the cost of filming underwater is a major hurdle. Filming topside is expensive and requires hundreds of accessories: batteris, lenses, matte boxes, filters, cables, follow focus, fluid head, legs, dolly, ...the list goes on. Now, on top of that list, there is a cost of underwater accessories: diving equipment, housing, ports, lighting, grips, ...it can easily add up to a solid 6-figure expense.

Unfortunately, you can not charge premium for underwater material, so these are the costs you may never recoup.

2)Other than the Gates, and AquaVideo housing, are there any other manufacturers out there at this time?

Those are the main choices. I have a custom housing, which I like most because it has been made exactly how I wanted. But, the cost was substantial - again, something you will never recoup.

3)Do you have any lens, or gear recommendations for shooting macro?

I use servos, which allow you for rear control and precision. All you need is a 5k pot on the housing. If you are interested in a precion servo/controller system at a cost of around $1k per motor (including controller) send me an email at pawel.achtel (at) 24x7.com.au. I also designed an external controller box made out of titanium, but the cost of just the controller box is about the same as the entire AquaVideo housing.

4)Is anyone kicking themselves for getting into this field of work?

You should probably ask, who doesn't I got lazy answering this one and tend to refer to an article (very well) written by my friend Howard:

http://www.howardhall.com/stories/breakingin.html

 

[catfeesh]

Pawel, thanks for the tech advice, It's good to hear from a pro on the inside.
Howards article is just what I needed - a good reality check, I have lots to consider.
The rear control servos sound very interesting...I'll keep those in mind. I've had bad experiences with motion noise from my front end control fumbling.

 

[Joe Shemesh]

UW Housing

UW Housing

Thanks for your post Michael and apologies for my outburst. I had reached the end of my tether, more importantly, ran out of excuses to give some of my long-standing clients - as to why I wasn't getting their work done.
Just wanting to move on, receive our housing and turn out some beautiful RED pictures.

joe

 

[Michael Hastings]

Thanks for your post Michael and apologies for my outburst. I had reached the end of my tether, more importantly, ran out of excuses to give some of my long-standing clients - as to why I wasn't getting their work done.
Just wanting to move on, receive our housing and turn out some beautiful RED pictures.

joe

Thanks for your understanding, I owe you a BIG beer whenever we meet.

BTW for those of you that might be (understandably) a bit concerned about ordering, I did ship 3 of the aluminum housings that month (so I wasn't just sitting on my hands) that were farther along. We had been selling mostly aluminums at that point. It had been several months since selling a PVC unit and the combination of PVC with the Glass dome (which is BTW a very smart economic choice. The PVC housing with glass dome is about the same as an aluminum with acrylic port) - where the glass dome frontplate can't be easily altered for a different lens height - threw me for a bit of a loop.

PS circuit boards for the simple birger mount iris/focus/etc. controller should be in early next week. Probably a week or two for testing but it is pretty simple so don't expect many issues.

Joe gets one for half price...

Picture shows basic layout in a small waterproof case. Waterproof version will probably use toggle switches on a cable so can be placed near your hand. I have to figure out those little push buttons for the other dedicated function buttons. A cable goes into the housing to attach to the birger mount. Board could also go inside the housing with the switch cables on through holes, but it would be harder to implement dedicated function switches but they might not be that important. But it might save a couple hundred dollars.

 

[jim kozmik]

Jim Kozmik here from Canada..Mike I have pushed the ICEBERG from my driveway here in Canada and will be diving/shooting in 5 weeks..I have researched the RedOnes options,all lenses ..the movie industry needs and our Ocean shooting needs for our future Tv shows...we have a local motion picture/HD rental company in Toronto that I will be marketing the Red One housing through as well now..SO...I am just about ready to order a housing from you...we have over 60 RED One cameras in Toronto.at rental houses and privately owned....
A couple of quick questions before I phone you..Does the housing come in RED aluim at all..
100 ft of SDI rear spare back cable to surface..how much...can I send raw data to a surface digital hardrive..

Is the Canon 10-22mm lense and 6 inch dome ready to ship..
Do I also need the the 8 inch dome for larger cine lenses like the 14 zeiss..I have 2 old threaded F3 Aquatica domes in storage as well.

If I ordered first week of March... March 3rd say...could the housing be ready for me to come buy and pickup.and visit Frasier in the keys to play with complete unit..

thats it for today....the wife approves this message and purchase.kozzzzzz

 

[jim kozmik]

Addon..sorry forgot about date...
Mike I can come down to Florida first week of May if possible.kozz

 

[Michael Hastings]

Jim:

No problem regarding having your housing ready to pick up first week of may, and yes the six inch dome - as well as the 8" glass dome are in stock on the shelf. I think there may be some confusion as to why the frontplate was an issue for Joe Shemesh's housing which I will explain in my next post which also will make it a little clearer what the deal is with our frontplate which actually provides a great deal of flexibility.

Our threaded port is for the one Aquatica used for the N8008 housing and is a (very) slightly smaller thread than they used for the F3 housing. We could make a frontplate to accommodate those domes but it would be about $300 extra for the custom plate. My concern would be whether you can get extension rings and such if needed.

With the standard dome you can use the 14mm and older t2.1 12mm but you may need an extension ring or two if we make the housing the standard way which allows you to use things like the 10-22 Canon on the birger mount. We have a bunch of the extension rings and macro ports on hand for the standard size plus about 20 housings out there already with that thread so it is more feasible for us to make more when we run out.

The raw data only comes out the esata drive part and I think the spec only allows a few feet.

HD-SDI is no problem. 100 feet of the highest quality Belden 3 GHZ stranded RG6 cable which we then have coated with a heavy wall neoprene is $3.50/ft so $350 plus the backplate with seal which is $175.00.


Here's a direct link to the .pdf brochure for the AquaVideo RED1 housing:
http://www.aquavideo.com/pdfs/RED1HousingBrochure309.pdf