Underwater Bubble Blowers User Group Thread NEW

[Pawel Achtel]

Do you really have to take every post as an opportunity to twist it into an argument for your deepX?

Mike, My post had nothing to do about DeepX and didn't mention or referred to DeepX in any way, yours did. I was responding to hypocrisy of Ross' post and referring to what he said. I guess regardless of what I post, you see an argument for DeepX in it.

...And of course if he could go wider he would. Does it leave room for an argument for side by side Nikonos epics with its massive interaxial? Yes - just as it does for side by side GOPros (or the new sony action cam) with their much better interaxial than deepX 3d.

The angle of view has nothing to do with with interaxial distance. These are two separate things and I'm surprised you are confusing the two. Why you are bringing this issue for any other reason than confusion and "bagging" our products. For clarification, by "bagging" I mean posting incorrect information aimed at competitor. You have been doing this a lot.

BTW, for clarification, we offer dual DeepX with a wet beam splitter, another first in the industry, that does not have fixed interaxial distance and it is adjustable from 0mm to 50mm, offers 75 degree wide angle and fully resolves Epic sensor with no geometric distortions or field curvature and weighs less than 30kg. It is all about choices. Can you explain how 0mm -50mm interaxial is bigger than a Go Pro, because I think you have no idea what you are talking about?

It is pretty sad to read your constant trolling and attacks on me, our company and products, in circumstances when your customers are writing to me upset saying that you do not respond to their emails and refuse to fix your faulty products.

 

[Tom Hamilton]

Pawel, you were warned by the mods, Jeff Kilgroe specifically, to stop engaging in these kinds of marketing tactics. We all know the ins and outs of your product, aggressively rammed down our throats repetitively for many months now. Please desist with the war drums, my ears are ringing, thanks.

 

[Frazier Nivens]

Agreed...always a negative response and critique and we all just don't need to hear it anymore...

 

[Ross Isaacs]

So now I am a hypocrite!!! GIVE ME A BREAK PAWEL!!!!!!

 

[Mark_Thorpe]

Guys, the simple solution is to create a separate thread per post. Whilst this whole arena was created at the outset with the best intentions it is clear now that claims have been laid to this thread and to use it as a means to steer it down a one way street. It will be harder for 'anyone' to continually hijack individual threads with the same tactic, and if they do then simple reports to moderators will probably put an end to certain memberships.

Sick and tired of hearing the same message over and over.

Cheers,
Mark 'The unsubscribed' Thorpe.

 

[Johnny Friday]

Mark, you devil you!

 

[Mark_Thorpe]

Hey Johnny, how's it going mate? Keep the bubbles heading north and the wet on the outside...

 

[Pawel Achtel]

Pawel, you were warned by the mods, Jeff Kilgroe specifically, to stop engaging in these kinds of marketing tactics. We all know the ins and outs of your product, aggressively rammed down our throats repetitively for many months now. Please desist with the war drums, my ears are ringing, thanks.

Tom, can you quote Jeff Kilgroe specifically referring to any of my posts, if so which one that would be? Can you explain exactly what tactics are you talking about?
If you are unable to provide such quote, I will gladly take this argument to the mods myself as personal attacks and trolling are not welcome on this forum.

The problem here is that Michael Hastings made specific and unsolicited post relating to our product and provided false information about it. Namely that DeepX rig has fixed interaxial distance in a 3D configuration, where the truth is that it doesn't.

It is none of Michael Hasting's business to post false information about our products and I find it only fair to offer a clarification. Stop posting false and incorrect information about our products or making personal attacks on me and I'm sure the moderators will have no problem with this thread.

So now I am a hypocrite !!! GIVE ME A BREAK PAWEL!!!!!!

Ross, I never called you a hypocrite or any other derogative name. I was hoping you would explain your views better as your posts seemed to contradict each other. In particular, I found your post #1815 hypocritical because of your remarks to "bagging" someone elses products and your earlier vocal criticism of maximum angle of view of 75 degrees being not wide enough did not seem to reflect your own practice. You are welcome to respond on the merits to my post $1816 and offer a proper explanation, if you can. I can see you jumping up and down a lot but very little reasoning or factual accuracy behind it.

 

[Will Keir]

Well it's clear a few bubble blowers have trouble in communication with Pawel, but I see no reason to ban him. He might have a little swagger to his posts, thought he's pretty much always on point, dedicated and sharp, keeping issues to facts, even scientific. He is most likely the most scrutinized member on this thread, yet he continues to fight and give valid points and arguments. His energy is just no stop. You CAN NOT beat Pawel in a battle of words. You will give up before he does. Maybe you see him as the director from "Hell." But I see him as the director that will strive constantly to get the best out of people and equipment and beyond. Stressful as it may be, he's a perfectionist and in the unforgiving world of H20, this is what I like. Pawel is an interesting human being, someone should do a story on him, the good, the bad. I guess I understand a man like Pawel a little better than most. Pawel is a part of the community, he's not going anywhere.

 

[Michael Hastings]

Mike, My post had nothing to do about DeepX and didn't mention or referred to DeepX in any way, yours did. I was responding to hypocrisy of Ross' post and referring to what he said. I guess regardless of what I post, you see an argument for DeepX in it.



The angle of view has nothing to do with with interaxial distance. These are two separate things and I'm surprised you are confusing the two. Why you are bringing this issue for any other reason than confusion and "bagging" our products. For clarification, by "bagging" I mean posting incorrect information aimed at competitor. You have been doing this a lot.

Your post obviously was referencing your product when you brought up the 75 degree reference.

I know that angle of view has nothing to do with IA, the whole point of the post was that there isn't anything hypocritical about Ross's post - it points out that there are substantial tradeoffs right now with all of the available 3D systems - you can have the flexibility of 0 to whatever IA with the highly respected Atom beamsplitter in a waterproof housing with the tradeoffs of limited FOV that has; or wider angle with two Nikonos side by side but tradeoff of massive IA; or small IA and extremely low cost with two GoPros and some image quality tradeoffs, etc.

BTW, for clarification, we offer dual DeepX with a wet beam splitter, another first in the industry, that does not have fixed interaxial distance and it is adjustable from 0mm to 50mm, offers 75 degree wide angle and fully resolves Epic sensor with no geometric distortions or field curvature and weighs less than 30kg. It is all about choices. Can you explain how 0mm -50mm interaxial is bigger than a Go Pro, because I think you have no idea what you are talking about?

I never said anything about a beamsplitter IA being bigger than a gopro. I was comparing to a dual Nikonos setup that you had promoted previously and could be done easily by any other manufacturer that thought the massive IA of side by side epic/nikonos would make sense. But congratulations on weaseling in a promo for your new product - if it works, it is your first offering that actually makes much sense to me.

 

[Mauricio Handler]

DIrector? No. Asshole - Yes.

I say we just ignore him by not responding to his posts why should he continue to spoil this party?
I say we put 50lb of lead and send him to Deep X!

Sorry Will- with all the professional respect to you and those that share on this forum in a positive way I vote to
just ignore the MF. I have no patience for this continued tone, attitude and disrespect.

Being accurate in ones technical and dare we call it scientific know how does not give anyone cart blanche
for being a penis. In the end this whole business is about people, camaraderie, good will, etc etc etc
That is what draws me to individuals, even if less endowed with all the correct know how- like myself.

Its amazing how one can come to really dislike someone that one has never met face to face.
I personally do not care to meet Mr. P- I do not want to buy his products, refer my client base to him or god forbid take one of
his workshops- can you imagine the poor bastards attending that week from hell?
This is not because of his products capabilities. My assessment is strictly because of the MAN- plain and simple.

Anyway- you all get MY point.
And yes I did call him an Ahole of the highest caliber.

Off to Indonesia- for some a one month long trip to test the new Rouge housing, a lot of creative image making, sharing with a great bunch of
creative guests that have over the years become my personal friends and for some peace- without e-mail, internet and a negative individual to sour my every morning.

 

[Tom Hamilton]

OK, thread is up again. That was a quick week.

One extra rule: if you have made a new product, you can mention this once. Constant discussion of one particular product, and belittling of other products/manufacturers, will result in a ban.

Enjoy.

Not Jeff Kilgroe, Martin Weiss.

 

[Mark_Thorpe]

DIrector? No. Asshole - Yes.

I say we just ignore him by not responding to his posts why should he continue to spoil this party?
I say we put 50lb of lead and send him to Deep X!

Sorry Will- with all the professional respect to you and those that share on this forum in a positive way I vote to
just ignore the MF. I have no patience for this continued tone, attitude and disrespect.

Being accurate in ones technical and dare we call it scientific know how does not give anyone cart blanche
for being a penis. In the end this whole business is about people, camaraderie, good will, etc etc etc
That is what draws me to individuals, even if less endowed with all the correct know how- like myself.

Its amazing how one can come to really dislike someone that one has never met face to face.
I personally do not care to meet Mr. P- I do not want to buy his products, refer my client base to him or god forbid take one of
his workshops- can you imagine the poor bastards attending that week from hell?
This is not because of his products capabilities. My assessment is strictly because of the MAN- plain and simple.

Anyway- you all get MY point.
And yes I did call him an Ahole of the highest caliber.

Off to Indonesia- for some a one month long trip to test the new Rouge housing, a lot of creative image making, sharing with a great bunch of
creative guests that have over the years become my personal friends and for some peace- without e-mail, internet and a negative individual to sour my every morning.

Hey Mauricio,
If you get close to or visit the 'Island of the God's' as in Bali, would love to hook up. To take a closer look at a Rouge would also be a request as this is one housing currently under consideration for the planned documentary.

If Bali is on your itinerary drop me a PM when on island and I'll send you my cell and other contact details.

Cheers,
Mark.

 

[Ross Isaacs]

Hey Mauricio,
If you get close to or visit the 'Island of the God's' as in Bali, would love to hook up. To take a closer look at a Rouge would also be a request as this is one housing currently under consideration for the planned documentary.

If Bali is on your itinerary drop me a PM when on island and I'll send you my cell and other contact details.

Cheers,
Mark.

I hope Amphibico have fixed those annoying electronically controlled handles as I have observed they eventually always break down and fail in the field when you need them the most. It happened to me on numerous occasions. The Gates housings controls never fail as they are purely mechanical.

 

[Johnny Friday]

I hope Amphibico have fixed those annoying electronically controlled handles as I have observed they eventually always break down and fail in the field when you need them the most. It happened to me on numerous occasions. The Gates housings controls never fail as they are purely mechanical.

....where is Ken Corben to tell a great, funny story about those Amphibico controls on a shoot a dozen or so years ago....Yes i agree...hope they are not same technology as they do fall apart and let you down. That said, i would think it would be one of the first things they would have addressed this time round.

 

[Ross Isaacs]

It is beyond me why people would spend so much on a Amphibicam only to be plagued with failing control handles. The housing itself is beautifully engineered but these electronic controls is the weak failure point. I would definitely have second thoughts going down this path. Perhaps with the amalgamation of Amphibico and Aquatica they might finally address these problems in the new Rouge.

 

[Pawel Achtel]

Not Jeff Kilgroe, Martin Weiss.

The message doesn't say that responding to incorrect statements made by another poster/manufacturer is not allowed and neither Martin Weiss nor Jeff Kilgroe referred to me specifically as you falsely stated, I will appreciate if you could desist making personal attacks on me using your false accusations.

I do however see Mauricio Handler having great difficulty with this and other forum rules with his advertising posts: #1272, post: #1781, post: #1782, not to mention his post #1832 in which he calls me "asshole", "MF", "Penis" and "Ahole of the highest caliber".

I find it extraordinary that you and others find such conduct aproppriate and acceptable for whatever discussion you want to have on this forum.
Perhaps you could contribute something interesting about underwater cinematography instead. Just a thought.

Well it's clear a few bubble blowers have trouble in communication with Pawel, but I see no reason to ban him. He might have a little swagger to his posts, thought he's pretty much always on point, dedicated and sharp, keeping issues to facts, even scientific. He is most likely the most scrutinized member on this thread, yet he continues to fight and give valid points and arguments. His energy is just no stop. You CAN NOT beat Pawel in a battle of words. You will give up before he does. Maybe you see him as the director from "Hell." But I see him as the director that will strive constantly to get the best out of people and equipment and beyond. Stressful as it may be, he's a perfectionist and in the unforgiving world of H20, this is what I like. Pawel is an interesting human being, someone should do a story on him, the good, the bad. I guess I understand a man like Pawel a little better than most. Pawel is a part of the community, he's not going anywhere.

Very nice post, Will. Thank you!

Your post obviously was referencing your product when you brought up the 75 degree reference.

My message did not refer to our products more than Ross's messages referred to the same. I found it hypocritical of him stating that 75 degrees angle was not enough for him and, at the same time, using a housing crippled to less than 45 degrees and bragging about it.
Ross was aware for many months and well before anyone else about our Wet Beam Splitter DeepX 3D rig. Hence, I completely reject your argument that it is because he is shooting with a beam splitter therefore his angle of view must be limited to less than 45 degrees. It was his choice to use such rig and hence the hypocrisy of his posts.

...I never said anything about a beam splitter IA being bigger than a gopro. I was comparing to a dual Nikonos setup that you had promoted previously and could be done easily by any other manufacturer that thought the massive IA of side by side epic/nikonos would make sense. But congratulations on weaseling in a promo for your new product ....

You have obviously confused 3Deep (fixed IA) and DeepX in 3D configuration (which uses a wet beam splitter) which I posted about before and did not want to repeat it again just because you did not pay attention. My point was that you should probably stick writing about your own products, particularly if it is something negative and you do not know much about them.

Respect is a two way street.

... the highly respected Atom beamsplitter in a waterproof housing with the tradeoffs of...

I am of a view that using a land beam splitter cased in an underwater housing is like using "the highly respected" Ferrari in a boat race...the trade-offs are just not worth the hassle and expense.

It is beyond me why people would spend so much on a Amphibicam only to be plagued with failing control handles. The housing itself is beautifully engineered but these electronic controls is the weak failure point. I would definitely have second thoughts going down this path. Perhaps with the amalgamation of Amphibico and Aquatica they might finally address these problems in the new Rouge.

Don't be so negative, Ross. Frazier will be upset.

There are many reasons people chose whatever they chose. For example, it is beyond me why people would shoot through a flat port with a 5k sensor camera or a 120 kg housing.

 

[Mark_Thorpe]

I hope Amphibico have fixed those annoying electronically controlled handles as I have observed they eventually always break down and fail in the field when you need them the most. It happened to me on numerous occasions. The Gates housings controls never fail as they are purely mechanical.

Yep me too mate, hence the desire to look at the housing. I worked for seven years between Yap in Micronesia and Palau owning small underwater imaging concessions. The number of times I was asked to fix or take a look at the electronic controls of the whole gamut of Amphibico housings was beyond a joke. If anything electronic is taken into the field we'd obviously have to look at a good supply of spares, which of course means added cost. I soon became a fan of Gates to the max and have had years of infrequent discussions with John as well as owning and testing a selection of their bullet proof products. It's an open playing field though and with the professionalism that John and the folks at Gates treat their product and client base I'm sure they also realize we have to take a look at the full range of options available to us. This in the hope that, as Johnny mentioned, they have indeed addressed and fixed this Achilles tendon that plagued their past products.

Cheers,
mark.

 

[Johnny Friday]

I find it extraordinary that you and others find such conduct aproppriate and acceptable for whatever discussion you want to have on this forum.
Perhaps you could contribute something interesting about underwater cinematography instead. Just a thought.

with all due respect Pawel and on the subject of hypocrisy--well, we are all human and share many of the same shortcomings. You did call me an asshole Ross's Deep Atom down under thread Post# 128 here: http://www.reduser.net/forum/showth...M-down-under&p=1015533&viewfull=1#post1015533

I don't take that personally, but i doubt you would say this to me in person. None the less, please dont play the innocent preacher. for the hundredth or more time, we get that your tube is better than the other guy's.....it's smaller, lighter and can resolve more lines....Your 3d tube is also superior in every way....ok. Enough said i think. Now, we as sub-standard image makers can at least admire the beautiful SD images we produce in peace. Most of us here don't want to talk more about Deep X & deep d3 anymore....there are a miriad of "other" users on this forum and we all seem to get along just fine. There's Mauricio who shoots with Amphibico, Frazier his Aquavideo, Ross his Gates and Mark Thorpe using a hollowed out piece of Bali wood....but we don't kick each other in the nuts. I think Mark's baliwood images are just peachy.....

Would be nice if you could just share some of your work and stop attacking everyone for sharing theirs and having the last word. Just bring some images up and let us marvel at them. This forum is merely for sharing anyway. You don't like it, then don't waste your time posting.

 

[Pawel Achtel]

Johnny, I didn't call you any name. I stated that you were acting like one after being being overly negative after I shared my work. On one hand you are saying: "Would be nice if you could just share some of your work" and the next thing: "Most of us here don't want to talk more about Deep X & deep d3 anymore".

Anyway, I welcome your invitation to discuss our projects.

Your new project sounds exciting and I look forward see some breath taking images that you are certainly capable of.