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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Ultra Primes vs Red Pro Primes....not again???

Steve Johnson said:
Given that RED is on a role, I am certain that they are reworking the RPP's - its only a matter of time...

:-)
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cheap, fast, good

ne 2 of the 3 right?

lighter and smaller and keeping them just as good will probably mean more expensive. a lot more expensive. unless they use other more practical methods like rehouse still lenses that already exist, i doubt they'll be able to get them smaller without making them pricier. UP'S and other glass aren't that expensive for no reason...
 
I think the UP's have a few notable advantages: UP's are considerably lighter - making them a better choice for handheld. They have more progressive focus markings (RPP's quickly get to infinity from the mid distances.), making more precise pulls for your AC. And do not suffer from the not so pretty RPP lens flare artifacts. For the money the RPP's are a great deal. But if production would spring for UP's or Cookes, I'd take them over RPP's in a heartbeat. RPP's rent for 300/day and UP's about 900/day for a six lens set. For a short term job that difference might not be as big a deal when you add it all up. I say, get the best glass production can afford, because at the end of the day it's your name on the line.
 
Harcharan Singh said:
HI,
Thanks for your reply. I have read your earlie threads also We have 3 sets of RPPs' for our EPIC-M and Two RED MX cameras but still there is a bias towards Zeiss products from DP's and we are unable to convince them.
I think it just gives them pride and a 'kick' that they are shooting on UP's and MP's
Harcharan
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I don't think the DP's are just being brand conscious. The Zeiss are just better lenses in all respects that matter. Hell, all these lenses are sharper than Cookes, but I'd take the Cookes over them. A pretty picture is more than an MTF chart. ie) My old Nikon 85mm 1.4 I think is a far better portrait lens than a Zeiss ZF, even though the Zeiss kicks it butt on MTF's (just ask Evin Grant). Also, if you're buying lenses to rent, then the UP's are a much better investment. UP's in my market will rent at least four to five times for every time RPP's go out. You can work out the rest of the math.
 
Yeah what Ketch said...

But...Harcharan, After shooting in your county this week and with your (epic) thanks ... I have realised quite quickly that your country men are 100% GEAR snobs. If it hasn't got ARRI on the side of it.. then it must be crap. I know our shoot in bombay really opened a lot of people eyes that week, especially when I was given the worse and oldest set Ziess lenses I ever worked with in my life.. but the images look amazing!.. Thats the power of the RED EPIC 5k chip. It makes crap lenses come alive.

I personally love the RED primes and the Master primes, they are the best !!!! but they are two damn heavy for when I want to shoot in small. (but thats my only qualm). As Lens Quality goes RED PRIMES are Giant killers. If they were 1.3 like the Arri Master Primes.. well.. Then I'd have to say they would be probably the best lense in the world for the price and power.

MAIN REASON:
Since you have to be very conscious of your rental market in India. I'd just purchase what the people in India want to rent. Arri Ultra and Master primes. Keep your RED lenses and never sell them but just keep educating people about them. Over time they will become as famous as the ARRI's, branding takes time.. RED are only new on the lens front so reputation takes time.

Remember how the ZIESS MKIII super speeds you couldn't even sell a set for 15K. Since the invention of RED they now look amazing on a 5K chip and are bright and small and are selling for up to 55k!!!.
They tick all the boxes for me, but not for others.. So personal thoughts a side and being serious for a sec.. Thinking rental only... you have to go with ARRI ULTRAs or MASTERs.... sorry to say. just until your countrymen get a bit wiser to RED lenses.

I don't think RED know it as yet.. But India will be the biggest RED camera purchasers in the world. A office setup up in the centre of Bandra Mumbai next to Bollywood elite... would be like printing money! ..... mmmmm.... thinking thinking.:)


KETCH ROSSi said:
In one word.... NONE!!

I have done this more then once, and it is not easy at all for some one to spot a difference in Image quality form lens to lens, when we are talking about PRO CINE Lenses,
apart form one been faster or bigger or heavier, and or having more Focus Markings, Build is incredible on both lenses, but RED PRO PRIMES are IMO the absolute best lens for the
money and of this there is no question that I would take on even the most experienced DP's to come and proof me other wise.

To my BIG surprise we tested and found out they the 50mm RED PRO PRIME turned out to be SHARPER then my 50mm MASTER PRIME, which costs what? 5+ times more?

If a particle Job demands a smaller lens, then yes Ultra Primes it is, but if there is no such a need, then get yourself a Set of RED PRO PRIMES send it to Duclos, to have the Focus Markings added,
and never look back while saving 4 times equal to that amount of which you spent.
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Nice to hear Mark got great images from old Zeiss primes. My fave on Red. I often point a light (like a dedo) right into the glass to control contrast and suggest often times hot sun etc. With Mk 3's they create a remarkably consistent and organic flare. The RPP's are quite a different story. Finding the sweet spot is not always at the same T stop between lenses. If you do alot of flares in your cinematography test the RPP's to find what is the narrow parameter for getting this approach to look good. When you hit it, they look great.

Also, like to add for green screen work, the RPP's clarity is insanely good for pulling keys.
 
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RPP's

RPP's

I don't think RED know it as yet.. But India will be the biggest RED camera purchasers in the world. A office setup up in the centre of Bandra Mumbai next to Bollywood elite... would be like printing money! ..... mmmmm.... thinking thinking.:)
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Mark,
I have been crying from rooftops to convince RED on doing a setup in India or atleast in Singapore for their Asia market...at least a service center will help and convince people in investing in RED PRODUCTS ....

Harcharan
 
My Girlfriend is a well known Indian Classical dancer, and has been in a few Bollywood movies, but mor importantly her friends are Bolly wood directors, producers, actors, dancers etc...

They shoot 70% RED MX and 30% s35mm Film.

It IS a big market.
 
Misinformation

Misinformation

My Girlfriend is a well known Indian Classical dancer, and has been in a few Bollywood movies, but mor importantly her friends are Bolly wood directors, producers, actors, dancers etc...

They shoot 70% RED MX and 30% s35mm Film.
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I dont know what is the source behind the above figures but it is not the case....It may me totally reverse.....But we expect that with EPIC in 1 to 2 years the figures will be as above.

Harcharan
 
Harcharan Singh said:
I dont know what is the source behind the above figures but it is not the case....It may me totally reverse.....But we expect that with EPIC in 1 to 2 years the figures will be as above.

Harcharan
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of the bollywood productions in the US perhaps it different. I will ask the people I know in that world forsome more info.
 
Ned Wilson said:
...because at the end of the day it's your name on the line.
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Couldn't agree with you more. People don't understand that. Not knocking RPP's but there is a reason why so many Dp's love UP's or Cookes.
 
I'm not sure the two bare much comparison to be honest. In terms of physical size, mechanical operation, focal-length range, and not-least price, the two are substantially different.

Do both produce wonderfully sharp and detailed images? Absolutely, but so will a $150 50mm f/1.8 SLR prime - so I'm not sure absolute resolving power is really the point to compare lenses on so much these days.

Given a choice between the two, I'd pick the UPs without question, each and every time. For the simple fact that they're nicer lenses to work with (as well they should be for the price differential!).

I think CP.2s are a more appropriate point of comparison, because at least they're competing for the same portion of the market.
 
I love the RPPs and I have a few of them but UPs are in a different class.
I never shot charts with them nor would I want to, this is a practical experience I've had with them.
UPs have a wonderful contrast and flare and while I love the brightness of the RPPs they don't quite compare.
 
Deviating slightly off course here, but why are some of the RPP no longer listed for sale on RED's website?
 
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