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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Two informative reviews (possibly from the same shoot)

I think it's still just meta-data. I've changed color gain settings in camera, opened up RedCine, reset all values back to default, and you get the same thing you would've if you didn't use in camera Gain.
 
There is an in-camera gain setting. It's in the video settings portion of the menu and has a range of 0.0 to 4.0.

I was under the impression that this worked just like the ASA or WB where it has no direct effect on the recorded RAW data, but is rather passed on for digestion by REDCINE / RED Alert and can be tweaked in post.

Or am I wrong? Does gain actually have an effect on the data before being encoded to R3D in the camera?

Edit> I took too long to post, but I'm thinking what kenn michael said above...

Graeme?
 
This is a biggie for first time (post) users.

RC is defaulting to the in-camera ISO settings, and that seems so right, but it's not. I think RedCine should default to 160'ish to avoid some confusion....

Gunleik
 
There is no gain before ADC. At least I havn't found one. 320 ASA seems to be a good value to start with.

All parameter except exposure time and framerate change only the LUT for viewing, be it HDSDI or LCD/EVF.

Hence it would be nice to load a LUT that would mimic the RAW Data as closely as possible. Nontheless, a full 4K deabayer on HDSDI out is not possible, noise is hardly to evaluate even then. Footage has to be fully developed in RC to evaluate correctly.

Gunleik,

I found 320 ASA the way to go for most shots I had to tackle. So default for me would be 320 ASA. I second that there should be a default settinging in RC regardless what ASA the LUT on the shoot had.

Hans
 
chuckt said:
RED is the inexpensive, poor man's promised land. Now you are saying it cannot be operated without a host of specialists on hand! Where is the savings? Where is the simplicity of Pany / Sony?
Click to expand...

Well, RED is obviously something completely new, and that's the reason why so many people are wasting the rest of their lives gazing at the REDUser forum. :tongue:

It's new and people just have to go back to school again. Professionals and also regular addicts like me.

I guess that when one learns the language of the camera, things will be fine, but it'll take time, cause it's not a film camera and it's not a video camera.

And, IMO, the simplicity of Panny\Sony-type cameras is actually taking away your processing freedom.

Now that I start to understand RAW and the REDCine workflow, I'd say it's super-important.
 
gunleik said:
http://www.cinematography.com/forum2004/index.php?showtopic=29375
http://www.surrealroad.com/research/archives/2008/the-red-experience-part-1-the-shoot/

Gunleik
Click to expand...

KIT WE USED:

RED camera- Build 14
18, 32, 85mm Cooke Ultra Primes
2 RED brick batteries
4 PAG V-lock batteries (yes they're perfectly compatable)
8X 8GB Compact Flash cards (I'll explain why)
RED 6" LCD on-board monitor
Red Cradle
Red Shoulder pad/mount

Gotta get me some of those Cooke Ultra Primes.. sorry, childish of me...couldn't resist :innocent:
 
chuckt said:
RED is the inexpensive, poor man's promised land. Now you are saying it cannot be operated without a host of specialists on hand! Where is the savings? Where is the simplicity of Pany / Sony?
Click to expand...

Like film camera doesn’t need specialist now, however film specialist have to be retrain very soon, otherwise he will have hard time to find the job.

Also I am surprised how specialist becomes the plural in you post
 
taubkin said:
Wait, you have to buy it? :umm:
Click to expand...


A camera with 35mm DOF should come with 2 things;

1 (most importantly) a marking showing where the focal plane lies.

2 somewhere to hook a tape measure

Based on Red's pricing I don't understand how the focus hook costs $45. It is a bit of plastic and a small bolt. In comparison the body cap, also plastic but a lot bigger and more complex, costs only $12. Go figure.

Solution: get a bolt for a few cents and a small strip of metal. Drill a hole in one end of the metal that the bolt will fit through. Bend the other end up in a tape-hook like fashion (so that the bend will be on the focal plane). Attach it to the camera. Tape hook. Cost? Probably about 10 cents. And it's made of steel. Make 2 of them and you can have one each side of camera.

But the camera really should come with a focal plane indicator and a tape hook. I'm sure even panasonic do that with their varicam don't they? (the focal plane indicator)
 
redicule said:
Based on Red's pricing I don't understand how the focus hook costs $45. It is a bit of plastic and a small bolt. In comparison the body cap, also plastic but a lot bigger and more complex, costs only $12. Go figure.
Click to expand...

The focus hook that I got isn't plastic. Maybe they used to be, but I got mine after it had been backordered.
 
macgregor said:
Yeah, the cooke ultra primes are the best lenses in the world!
Click to expand...

I couldn't tell if this was a joke or not, but Zeiss makes the Ultra Prime lens line, not Cooke. And if you were to point to the current state of the art in lenses in the Zeiss product line that would be the Master Primes.
 
The need for a good DIT is very important with the RED One. A good DIT is not a glorified camera assistant position. A good DIT should understand:
Camera settings, RAW workflow and overall knowledge of how this NEW camera works in order for the client to get the best results in the field and during the post process.

I know many DIT’s that were camera assistants then purchased the “Cook video manual”
And started marketing themselves as DIT’s.

You do not need to be a “Rocket Scientist” to operate this camera, but it is above and beyond the level of most camera assistance’s at this point in time. With time the more technically minded camera assistant may rise to the DIT level, but most lack engineering training for non linear work-flows and have only recently, (last 5 years) become familiar with “Video cameras” .

This post reminds me of a discussion I had with a co-worker about a specific engineer that had a bad show “He’s a great engineer if everything goes well”
I pointed out that a good engineer is defined by their ability to fix problems and anyone can be a good engineer if nothing ever failed!

Dave
 
redicule said:
But the camera really should come with a focal plane indicator and a tape hook. I'm sure even panasonic do that with their varicam don't they? (the focal plane indicator)
Click to expand...

I believe there are NO other professional cameras built without a focal plane mark. There is no excuse for this.

It is difficult enough to get this digital cinema thing accepted on our shoots. Explaining that they 'forgot' something as critical the mark that tells you where you are focusing does not add to that acceptance factor!
 
Wow, that reviewer on cinematography.com doesn't have a clue!

First of all, you shouldn't be talking about 'gain' and grain if you don't understand what shooting RAW means. Why was the so-called DIT not there explaining it to him? Why did the rental house let the camera go out without the crew understanding these most basic things?

Rebooting the camera for lens changes? W-T-F?!?

Doing a black balance for every lens change? Uh dude, last time I checked Black is still Black. A different lens isn't going to magically make black something different.

Running a beta build on a real shoot (rental house's fault, but still an issue). This would be why the LCD was noisy and why they had rocketIO errors.

Complaining about 4 minute mags? Guess he doesn't come from a film background.

Complaining about the card formatting time? Just format them all in the morning/lunch/downtime

His comments about using third party batteries are accurate however. This needs to be addressed.

All in all, an embarassing admission of cluelessness forever etched into the electrons of the Internet. How unfortunate.
 
Typical film load is 10-11 minutes, maybe closer to 14 if you shoot 3-perf -- 5 minute loads are only used on Steadicam and handheld shots usually. I would would find shooting a whole movie on 4-minute loads annoying and it's silly to to start making excuses for that limitation after years of digital being touted as being superior to film partially because of the longer record times!

You guys have to stop beating up and insulting anyone who finds faults with using the camera. There are going to be a lot more of guys like this using the RED over the next decade -- professional AC's jumping around using different formats and cameras -- than guys like you (owners, engineers, naturally computer-minded, etc.). It would be better to educate them politely rather than call them idiots or clueless.

And there have been plenty of people on this site who have wanted the RED to behave more like an HD camera with processing options like gain and outputs like 1080P than like a RAW camera. You're going to keep finding people who have to use the RED camera for a commercial or weekend shoot wondering where the gain switch is. Educate them.
 
David Mullen ASC said:
5 minute loads are only used on Steadicam and handheld shots usually.
Click to expand...

The reviewer stated that the production was entirely handheld, which is why the 4 minute mag comment was relevant.

I am happy to educate people about the camera and I do regularly. I just think people should not write about what they don't understand.
 
CrewPix (and everyone.) Just consider your tone before you write. Everyone is coming up to speed on the RED One and will be offering opinions from their current level of experience and expertise. As Mr. Mullen notes, educate, don't attack. You have a great opportunity to empower others right now. Instead of bitching about the c.com reviewer's remarks on reduser.net, politely offer your corrections on the forum to which the remarks were posted.

I, myself, found a professional 1st a.c.'s remarks very valuable. I work in a variety of capacities from D.I.T. to D.P. and, no matter what my role, I always have an opportunity to educate my "clients" and crew. That is what inspires clients to hire me the next time - not my reel, not my gear - my attitude.

Believe me, there have been times when I was ready to wring a rank amateur director's neck. But, a deep breath and remembering I was just like him/her not so long ago allows me to continue with grace and poise.

Best,

Michael
 
"You do not need to be a “Rocket Scientist” to operate this camera, but it is above and beyond the level of most camera assistance’s at this point in time."

back in sept 2007 i may have agreed ... but today !
i have to ask the question- have you used a RED ?
if you are a DIT and have used whatever camera etc - i'm asking about using a RED ..

any persons that earns their living as a AC will have no problems with RED.
the camera is SIMPLE ... for an AC it's like learning any new Film camera and
much easier then hd/video camera's where you need a GPS to navigate the menu ... AC's are very sharp & learn very quickly ..


workflow= that should be work out before the 1st day of shooting ...
seems many are very worried about getting the data copied/backed up correctly ..
then don't reuse the CF cards/hard drives on the same day - have enough storage so it rotates in/out every 2-3 days .. at the end of the day data goes to editorial or 3rd party to be backed up etc ...

i haven't been on a set where i see them take a full/exposed tape/film/hard drve and they check every shot on set to see about dropouts etc ( or they run the film down to the lab as they are exposed - and have somebody down there checking every frame) ...

"This cameras is amazing at this price point and will need a good engineer. "

from your RED experience could you shed some light on WHY Red will need a good engineer ?
 
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