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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Truth or .... False Color

Mark L. Pederson said:
David - there is a now a TOOLS checkbox in the monitor setup that allows you to EXCLUDE the false color from the SDI feed - that problem is solved - what is NOT solved is that it only works as correctly when you are in RAW view mode. Which I would NEVER send out a monitor path.
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yup. I agreed with you on that one in the last line of my post.

This is seems to be why red stresses goal posts and histogram as the most important tools, but you kinda need RAW (closest thing linear light) at the camera level, to know what is going on.

Also, base ISO and light meters have to be stop accurate as well.

Battistella
 
While I agree that people should understand photography, I have no issues with making unobvious stuff (like the exposure-metering) more useable and simpler to understand. :)
 
Trent Lillehaugen said:
Hit the "Help" button when in the tools dialog and everything should be clearly documented. This same documentation can be found in the user guide.

In this documenation under Exposure mode it reads:
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Hey Trent - please try this on a camera. Swing your ISO and watch the Purple and Red change. Then - switch to RAW view - and try the same thing. You will see that it only works correctly in RAW view mode.

Unless I have completely lost my mind ... which is always possible.
 
Mark L. Pederson said:
David - there is a now a TOOLS checkbox in the monitor setup that allows you to EXCLUDE the false color from the SDI feed - that problem is solved - what is NOT solved is that it only works as correctly when you are in RAW view mode. Which I would NEVER send out a monitor path.
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For the sake of implementing a quick fix would also having a checkbox in the Monitor Setup that excludes Raw View essentially do what you'd like? That way you could enable Exposure Check and Raw View and get what you want on camera, but not through the SDI.

I don't have my camera here at the moment, so I can't poke around for inspiration. However, I think the current exposure modes should remain. Though I'm all for any new mode being implemented or any new features added.
 
David Battistella said:
This is seems to be why red stresses goal posts and histogram as the most important tools, but you kinda need RAW (closest thing linear light) at the camera level, to know what is going on.

Battistella
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What you need "to see what is going on" is EXPOSURE meter that will work over Redgamma3 or Redlogfilm and not be tied to ISO :)
 
Gunleik Groven said:
While I agree that people should understand photography, I have no issues with making unobvious stuff (like the exposure-metering) more useable and simpler to understand. :)
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Yup, im agreeing with making false color read raw data all the time. But is is not a simple thing, because once you get rid of raw, well, if you think it through then things could get very complicated and not really more simple.

How would it look/be without raw view in camera? Maybe now, with dragon it's possible.


battistella
 
Phil Holland said:
For the sake of implementing a quick fix would also having a checkbox in the Monitor Setup that excludes Raw View essentially do what you'd like? That way you could enable Exposure Check and Raw View and get what you want on camera, but not through the SDI.

I don't have my camera here at the moment, so I can't poke around for inspiration. However, I think the current exposure modes should remain. Though I'm all for any new mode being implemented or any new features added.
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Phil - how do you "exclude" RAW from the monitor path? As in, keep the monitor path Redgamma3 or Redlog and RAW on the Touchscreen???? That would be awesome - but it ain't possible now.
 
This sounds pretty reasonable.

I guess because I never waver much off 320 ISO I don't get into these issues much, because I don't fake the image much at time of capture, but I know many people need to do this.

What would be good is to take away ISO in camera and just leave it fixed at 320 or 500. Then people would know what's going on all the time and bring in a bit more light. LOL. :)

Battistella



Phil Holland said:
For the sake of implementing a quick fix would also having a checkbox in the Monitor Setup that excludes Raw View essentially do what you'd like? That way you could enable Exposure Check and Raw View and get what you want on camera, but not through the SDI.

I don't have my camera here at the moment, so I can't poke around for inspiration. However, I think the current exposure modes should remain. Though I'm all for any new mode being implemented or any new features added.
Click to expand...
 
I think this might just be a BUG/ERROR/OVERSIGHT on RED's part - since the description that Trent from RED posted in this thread from the HELP menu is EXACTLY what I want.

Pretty sure I'm not insane and it only works correctly in RAW mode. Anyone have a camera handy?
 
Maybe the ISO range in camera should be limited from 320-1200 on MX and 250-2000 on dragon.

Perhaps only a REDlog film view and a red gamma 3 view (ie, with and without gamma correction)

so maybe REDlog film view replaces raw view.

the problem is that every exposure tool would then have to point to something. Because there needs to be a reference. Now that reference/base sensitivity of the exposure tools is about 320 ISO. So if I take a common photographic tool for measuring light (like any decent light meter from the past fifty years) and meter a scene at 320iso, then I have a reference point for my internal camera tools.

Now, if everyone rates the camera at 800Iso that is fine too. Just base those exposure tools on an 800iso rating.

These in camera tools need to reference actual light hitting the film plane/sensor as per accepted industry and photographic standards set and followed by every professional still and motion capture camera ever made.

When it comes to all these silly side by side tests, I think this is why things get fucked up all the time because the red always looks about 1 1/2 stops under Alexa at 800. And that goes back to people not exposing correctly based on the tools.

this really does need to get sorted out.

battistella
 
David Battistella said:
Maybe the ISO range in camera should be limited from 320-1200 on MX and 250-2000 on dragon.
battistella
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No No No No.

Leave ISO alone - no limits needed.

Make the EXPOSURE tool work correctly - and all is well.

With respect to dropping RAW view - we already have a LOG view - so ... I would love a real argument why we need RAW view - and who actually uses it - and why? (other than using it to get the exposure meters not effected by ISO)
 
Gunleik Groven said:
Confirmed
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Especially on Dragon - IMO - this tool is VERY, VERY helpful - I had to use it a lot at first to re-program my brain as I was so use to looking at the MX histogram and knowing what was up. Just sucks that you need to go to RAW mode to get it working correctly - but again - based on the language in the HELP menu - I think it's a BUG that they can easily fix.
 
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