Trouble Renting?

[Jonas Nyström]

DON'T BUY THIS CAMERA OR ANY CAMERA IF YOUR BUSINESS PLAN IS RENTING IT OUT! Unless you really want to be a rental house it's just bad business. It takes a hell of a lot more than a RED to do well in that market.

If your a DP that wants another hammer in his toolbox then great, but don't expect to be competing in the rental market.

Couldn't be better said, Mike! If you don't own a bunch HS Primes.

 

[John DeBoer]

Min investment for a red package is 200 thousand if you want to support a studio feature film. Hope this helps.

Just did the quick math on your package.......without the steadicam and technocrane, you are at 600,000+......

Plus paying all the staff etc....

Some people are in for a suprise....
BTW....I LOVE the master primes as well......

 

[Russ McDonald]

We just wrapped a 25 million dollar feature on the red. here is a list of equipment we used on feature.

6 x Reds,
2 x EVF's
6 x Arri 19mm Base Plate Sliding Dove Tail & Full Cinema Support
6 x Hot-Swap Battery Supply for RED Cameras (non-stop shooting)
1 x Set of Arri Master Primes: 14, 18, 21, 35, 50, 75 & 100mm T1.3 (best lenses I have ever seen)
1 x Arri Ultra Prime 180mm T2.0
1 x Arri Prime 100mm T2.0
1 x Arri Prime 135mm T2.0
1 x Cooke 18-100 Mark II T3.0
1 x Cooke 25-250 Mark II T4.0
2 x Steadicams
1 x Super Techno Crane
2 x ArriHead 2 Geared Head
9 x Panasonic 8.4" HD LCD Monitors with Waveform
7 x Panasonic 17" HD LCD Monitors with Waveform
1 x Panasonic 26" HD LCD Monitor with waveform
5 x Preston Full Fiz Wireless Follow Focus Systems
1 x Viewfactor Prototype Remote VTR Start and Stop
6 x MB20 4 x5 Mattebox
2 x MB14 6x6 Mattebox
2 x LMB5 4x5 Clamp-on Mattebox
6 x FF5 Follow Focus
4 x Cine Tapes
6 x Ambient Clockit Boxes
1 x HyperDrive (This is the world's Fastest Memory Card Backup system)

The major cost was in the support that went with the camera not the camera its self, The reason we got the job is because of the support we offered with the camera. From the prep we setup workflow with apple and red to meet the directors needs. During production every day we answered questions of producers and bond companys, Each night we logged and transfered footage while trouble shooting problems we saw on set. Anyone can own a camera and rent it out and thats why so many people have a bad taste in there mouth for red. If you dont come with the support and the team to get them through prep to post then they should shoot 35mm. A director recently told me the devil you know is better then the devil you dont know. In the end if you buy a camera for rental be responsible with the technology and give the support it needs. Also dont plan on making any money on the RED camera body, you will make all your money on everything the ACs want to put on it and the post solutions you can offer. Min investment for a red package is 200 thousand if you want to support a studio feature film. Hope this helps.

John lands

This is the point I was making when the whole rental discussion started months ago. Skyline you also need to think in terms of your Knowledge base, all you owners who have your Cameras (lucky Bastards) are the most knowledgeable techs & artists in this burgeoning market. That is your true value. You power now is your ability to make other peoples projects go from the page to the stage as it were.

Start looking for projects you are a Producers who have a camera package, and a post production solution. So take short money and ownership, invest in your community. It will pay dividends, especially when your outside of LA....

 

[Steve Sherrick]

...Start looking for projects you are a Producers who have a camera package, and a post production solution. So take short money and ownership, invest in your community. It will pay dividends, especially when your outside of LA....

That is one of the keys right there. Offer full solutions that give you an advantage. Having a RED doesn't make you a Rental house. But having a RED package, with good on-set management tools, and the ability to facilitate the footage through the post process, that starts to add value.

 

[falcon418]

Is this a competition?

How can you make money when high volume rental houses are
renting a whole red setup incl. Glass for 650/ day 3 day week!!!!!

WHERE can I find that rate?

 

[Russ McDonald]

That is one of the keys right there. Offer full solutions that give you an advantage. Having a RED doesn't make you a Rental house. But having a RED package, with good on-set management tools, and the ability to facilitate the footage through the post process, that starts to add value.

Steve is brilliant here recognizing my unquestioned insight when it comes to all things, in what I like to call the Business of Show.

Fallow the link, if you haven't seen this yet. LOOK AT IT NOW

This is the key to your advantage, better, faster, and leaner... I am privy to lot of shit here in LA, the deluge of projects turning to 4k is soon approaching. TV is going to be insane.... All you lucky bastards who unlike me were very very smart, and have your gear are going to see a return. I'll be Hiring you, the problem is I opened my big mouth, now I can't screw ya.... My soul sucking black producer heart, foiled again by my tree hugging, commune loving Directors Heart. It always gets in the way....DAMN IT:whistling:

 

[Harry Clark]

Lots of great replies, fellas...
The rental business is a tough market, especially for the second- or third-tier players. DPs and ACs who own packages are value-added, so there can be a little fat in the rental budget and the producer can still see value. Big rental houses can move big volumes of gear, and can make a go of it on a slimmer margin. Small players or people who are not already established craftspeople may have a tougher go, especially as a glut of cameras appear.
Cheers,
Harry

 

[sparkhope]

If you want to shoot something you get a Red, if you want to rent something then grab some glass.

Agreed!

Already some folks are renting the cam out for around 2k/week. As the supply climbs that number will drop. Pure & simple.

If you want to be a rental house you're gonna need several REDs to provide a high sla to your customers in case of failure and such. At some point the camera will be a loss leader to move high end accessories and lenses where the rental markup tends to be nearly double that of the camera.

 

[Mark B.]

Eventually, Red owners will pay off their investment. After that, they won't be as desperate to rent out their camera. So the total number of cameras available for rent will diminish, demand will remain unchanged, and subsequently the rental income might pick up at that point, probably a year or two from now. :blink:

 

[dino g]

In the end, it is like any other business, it comes down to customer service and taking ownership. do right by your client and you should get repeat business, repeat business is what builds businesses. even if the director or the dp get a camera, they still need a back up body and someone on set to watch their back and cover their A$$.

i agree that demand has not even started. there are 84 weekly prime time 1 hours slots on the top 4 networks, not to mention cable and the other so called over the air networks. not to mention the rest of the world, and feature, music videos, shorts, industrials, student...RED's are shooting not even 1% of this stuff here in LA, when we get to 10% thats when the floodgates will open, but also by then keslow, birns, camtec, tch, otto, clairmont, panavision,....will all have 10 or 20 or 30 bodies..so it is going to be fun to watch and participate. if you have 18k sitting around, it is a better bet than the stock market, or bonds and for damn sure real estate right now. all those are loosing money...if you rent your body for 500 a week, it will be paid for in 36 weeks, which is a record for a camera.

 

[Noah Kadner]

Yep- if you are an owner-operator type and not an existing rental house it's going to be really hard to recoup your investment unless you plan on spending a *ton* of dough on a massively tricked out package, especially in a competitive market. Why would a producer spend say $1500 a day on a bare bones Red with the Red Zooms(which all told will still set you back up to $30K) when they can get a fully decked out Red with nice Cooke or ARRI Primes say for $600 more along with 24/7 support? And how about all of the infrastructure and overhead that go along with running a true rental service- prep, insurance, shipping, sales, etc.

Not to say you can't work with a local rental house to add your camera to their rental pool or try anything you like. But I think most folks looking at this camera as an entree into the rental world in the truly competitive markets(which increase each day as more REDs proliferate) will be in for a shock. Buy it to use it and enjoy but don't expect it to become an instant rental house.

Noah