Tripod, what to buy

[Brian Ferguson]

Hiya folks...
There are two threads here about heads... I am heading up this part of the Red configuration support issue. We are investigating this in house as the parts come together and we figure out weight, balance, etc. You might want to go to this thread...
http://www.reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?t=590&page=2

Hope this helps.

 

[Billy Summers]

Yeah, but in that scenario you're probably going to be making a trip to the rental house anyway (most owner-operators won't own everything they'd need for a major production), so just rent a more serious tripod head while you're there. Unless you're doing jobs like this all the time, or you need something that can support a heavy camera rig for your own everyday use of the camera, it probably doesn't make sense to buy.

GOOD POINT!

but how many accessories will you buy for your camera?
and how much is all that going to end up weighing?

 

[Pig]

Hello.
I need to buy a tripod soon. And i want to buy something that i can use with the Red One.
Right now i have a manfrotto 510 (i think the new version is called 518) which is quite nice if the camera weights less than 4 or 5 Kgs.

macgregor, if you need something soon, check out the Bogen 526 with some 528XB legs. That is not much money (~$1700.00) and should handle the Red pretty well. No, not an O'Connor, but quite nice.

Here's a link for ya:
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/con...s&Q=&sku=408412&is=REG&addedTroughType=search

 

[Blaine Golden]

I love my Cartoni Focus but if it turns out to be too small for RED, I'll probably give them the first look. Not exclusive, but first.

 

[Ralph Oshiro]

My favorite head is Vinten. Sachtler is great, but expensive.

 

[Blaine Golden]

Outfitting is definitely going to be a difficult decision making process.

 

[PaulClements]

macgregor, if you need something soon, check out the Bogen 526 with some 528XB legs. That is not much money (~$1700.00) and should handle the Red pretty well. No, not an O'Connor, but quite nice.

Here's a link for ya:
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/con...s&Q=&sku=408412&is=REG&addedTroughType=search

Hi Pig,

I brought this setup up earlier in the thread, I was wondering... Have you actually used this or do you know of any good reliable reviews or comparisons. I know it's aimed at the the High end ENG EFP market, but I look at the RedOne's size and weight as possibly falling into that category rather than it's heavier film counterparts in some respects. From a small indie budget point of view it looks to make a fair bit of sense.

Thanks

Paul

 

[Pig]

Re: Bogen 526 & 528XB legs

Tried the combo at NAB2006. Had a 2/3" cam on it. It was a VERY impressive performance!
Felt much better than Vinten or Miller equivalents.

 

[PaulClements]

Thanks alot Pig, from what I can see at the moment it certainly sounds like a possible budget alternative, the 1030HD from O'connor only holds 4lbs more and some people are touting that as a viable option for Red One setups.

Comparisons (From a spec viewpoint and not an actual comparison):

O = O'Connor 1030HD Fluid Head Packaged with tripod (Link)

M = Manfrotto 528XB Heavy Duty Tripod with 526 Fluid Head (Link)

Price:
O = $5100
M = $1700

Load Capacity:
O = 39lbs
M = 35lbs

Counter Balance System:
O = Dual-Axis Sinusoidal
M = Adjustable Spring

Tilt Range:
O = -90° to +90°
M = -70° to +70°

Tilt/Pan Drag:
O = Continuously variable fluid
M = 0 plus three step

Tilt Lock/Pan Lock:
O = Yes/Not Specified
M = Independent/Independent

Temperature Range:
O = -40 to +60°C
M = -20°C +60°C

Warranty:
O = 5 Years
M = 2 Years

Otherwise I believe most other specs are equivilent with the only other question on build quality and durability. Would love to hear from anyone that's used both of them and can give us some first hand feedback.

 

[Jeff Kilgroe]

Thanks alot Pig, from what I can see at the moment it certainly sounds like a possible budget alternative, the 1030HD from O'connor only holds 4lbs more and some people are touting that as a viable option for Red One setups.

Good general spec comparison. The Bogen/Manfrotto 526 may fit the bill for a lot of people.

Be careful using that Manfrotto head outdoors in cold weather! It's surprisingly only rated to -20C/-4F, that's not great at all. In fact, that'scould be problematic for anyone shooting winter sports or any other activity in the cold/snow with a potential wind chill. Or maybe I'm just being paranoid because -10F was enough to screw up my Cartoni Focus head that's rated for colder weather than that.

That aside and if the limited tilt angles and adjustment steps don't bother you, this could be a nice tripod/head combo for a tighter budget.

The OConnor 1030 still has my vote for the heads that I've tried, but I would still like to test drive a Panther. I may take a look at this Manfrotto 526 head, but I need cold weather performance and would prefer the increased tilt and motion adjustments.

 

[Pig]

In fact, that'scould be problematic for anyone shooting winter sports or any other activity in the cold/snow with a potential wind chill.

 

[PaulClements]

I may take a look at this Manfrotto 526 head, but I need cold weather performance and would prefer the increased tilt and motion adjustments.

I'd be very interested to hear your thoughts on it AV, if and when you do. Personally I have no experience to compare it to so I rely on those who do to tell me the pro's and con's of choosing the cheaper option.

When you say "-10F was enough to screw up my Cartoni Focus head" what actually happens to it when it's that cold? Does it just seize up? and is it fine once it is back in a suitable temprature or does it leave lasting damage?

 

[Jeff Kilgroe]

Yeah, a few of those and some string to tie 'em on. ...Problem solved.

 

[Jeff Kilgroe]

When you say "-10F was enough to screw up my Cartoni Focus head" what actually happens to it when it's that cold? Does it just seize up? and is it fine once it is back in a suitable temprature or does it leave lasting damage?

I spent 2 days in -10F (about 6 hours each day) with my Focus and then did it again at -5F a couple days later. Immediately in the cold temperature on that third day, the head would no longer hold its position and would slowly sag or drift with the weight of the camera on it (HVX200 with no additional lenses or gear in this case). I was trying to do a timelapse sunrise and it wouldn't cooperate and within minutes the camera would go from pointing at the horizon to pointing at the dirt. Taking the camera off and playing with the head showed that there was very little resistance to any directional movement and it felt "sloppy" or like none of the components were fitting together properly anymore. Like it was worn out.

After taking the head back inside and letting it adjust to room temps (about 68F), everything seemed fine again. It would adjust, everything felt OK moving the head alone. As soon as I mounted the camera back onto it, it still felt a bit sloppy. But it would hold position, it just wasn't right. I attemtped to contact Cartoni (their support request is e-mail only on their web site -- never got a response). I contacted Ste-Mann, the US distributor and they had me send it in for repair/replace. I don't know what they ever determined or anything like that... But I received a brand new Focus head in exactly 1 week from when I handed my broken one to the FedEx guy.

I haven't had it out in the cold since then. I've only had the replacement for a couple weeks now and it's been warmer here, in the 40's and 50's -- at least until today, about 15F right now, probably won't get much colder than that with this current storm or until next winter, but who knows really. I'm planning to sell the Focus head & Cartoni sticks in favor of something like the OConnor 1030 to use with RED.

Anyway, that's all there is to say about that... I really like the Focus head and I was very, very pleased with it for the last 10 months or so that I've owned it, right up until it failed. The cold was the only thing I could figure that would cause it to fail in the way it did. I never abused it or used it excessively -- maybe 8 hours/week on average and it was only out in the cold on occasion. Those two days at -10 were not typical - usually it's more like +10 or warmer if I'm shooting snowboarding or other such things. If we have blowing snow or significant moisture, I usually cover the tripod and have the HVX in a rain slicker.

 

[Steve Gibby]

Jeff, by process of elimination with your Focus head problem, either it was a unique problem with that particular head, or it indicates that Focus heads aren't made for -10 Fahrenheit work. I haven't heard other similar complaints about Focus heads, so maybe you just had one that wasn't happy in the cold.

Having directed and shot a lot of action sports programs in extreme environments, I've seen tripod heads take a real beating. Some take it well. For example, I was on the ESPN, Fox, NBC, and OLN crews that covered the pro snowboarding tours worldwide for several years. We shot with Betacam SP equipment, switching to Digi Beta and DVCPro50 later on. Occasionally we'd use Satchler tripods, but more than anything else we used Vinten. On a typical shooting day we'd setup on the mountain early in the morning, sometimes when it was as cold as -30 degrees Fahrenheit. I never remember a Vinten failing in those conditions. Right after that shoot, we would leave for tropical shoots in Hawaii, Fiji, and the Caribbean to cover pro water sports tours (surfing, sailboarding, etc.), and use the same Vinten tripods in 90-degree heat and tropical rains - uncovered. I don't remember having a Vinten fail in those conditions either. We'd beat them to death year in and year out, and they'd still work fine! They were the mid-sized Vinton tripods, rated for around 28 pounds, because we often had to hike long ways with a camera, tripod and backpack.

I've also had good luck in adventure travel, action sports, and doco shooting with Satchler tripods. For heavier, more stationary work I've often used O'Connor, with very good results.

I do a wide range of production genres, so one tripod simply won't work for all of them. I'll probably buy a Miller Solo #1514, with carbon fiber sticks, for mobile work with lighter weight RED one equipment/lens setups, and perhaps a mid range (up to 35 lbs rating) Vinten or Satchler for the rest. When I need to load up my RED One cameras, and the production will be more stationary, I'll rent an O'Connor on a per project basis. For heavier systems, I've also heard good reports about the Vinten Vision 100 heads/tripods, which have a payload range of 15 to 44 lbs.

This all fits my career-long motto: "Buy what you will use regularly, and rent the rest on a per project basis". I buy used, reconditioned equipment whenever possible.

Others needs may be different depending on the types of projects they do. I think it would be wise to hold off on buying new tripods until RED One ships and we can test it on various tripods with different weight loads of accessories/lenses.

 

[Jeff Kilgroe]

Thanks for the comments, Gibby!

Yeah, my Focus head may have been a bum unit or they may just not handle the cold all that well. I don't know. But like I said, I really like the Focus head and outside of it taking a dump on me a few weeks ago, it's been great - especially for the price. Head with 2-stage carbon sticks and soft bag was right at $1100.

I do shoot snowboard events on occasion, I'm not following tours or anything like that, but it's more promotional or commercial video work for some of the local board manufacturers. Other than that, I tend to just do a lot of shooting year round in various conditions for my own purposes.

I'm planning to buy one tripod setup that will serve most of my general day to day use. So far, I'm liking the OConnor 1030 as I gave one a test drive. I've looked at Miller and Vinten at the local shop/rental house, but I plan to also give them a more thorough look before making a final decision. Input from guys like you is really helpful too.

 

[Jeff Kilgroe]

Well crap... I need to buy a tripod now.

Well crap... I need to buy a tripod now.

OK, I'm resurrecting this thread...

I was going to hold out for the RED ONE, but I'm in a bind. I need to pick up a new tripod system and want something pretty good. Ideally, I'd like the O'Connor 2060 head, but the budget for it just isn't here at the moment. So, if anyone wants to chime in with suggestions, I'm listening. I need something that has a load rating of at least 30lbs, preferably 40lbs or more. And the budget is $5500 or less.

I'm seriously thinking I'm going to just order that Bogen 526 head with the 538XB stix package from B&H. At $1699, I don't see how I'm going to beat it and that way, I can still try and use it with my RED ONE (it supports 39lbs I think). And perhaps later this year I can spring for the O'Connor 2060 head.

Anyone care to comment? Anyone know of any good deals on used/refurb heads anywhere? I'd just go for the O'Connor 1030, as it will work just great now, but I don't know if it will handle a full RED setup. I'd hate to spend all that money now only to replace it in 7 months. That's why that Bogen kit is so attractive at the moment.

 

[Pig]

I'm seriously thinking I'm going to just order that Bogen 526 head with the 538XB stix package from B&H. At $1699, I don't see how I'm going to beat it and that way, I can still try and use it with my RED ONE (it supports 39lbs I think).

A good choice, me thinks.
But in any event, you should probably go try it out first yourself. I have the tripod's predecessor, the Manfrotto 132XB, and those sticks are SOLID. Flex? I don't think so.
The 526 head was the highlight at NAB 2006 for me....wait, no, there was this cam that was the highlight...can't remember the name now, but it had a color as its name... :tongue:

The 528XB, by the way, is not very transportation friendly; that is to say, it is quite bulky and not light. However, I checked out another combo that Bogen/Manfrotto offered with the 526 at NAB2006, and it was a joke. That 526 head demands SOLID sticks, and the 528XB sure are that.

It's a totally underrated piece IMO; and for $1600 a real steal. A shame some apparently reject the Bogen/Manfrotto brand as being "non-professional", as it [526+528XB] really is deserving of praise.
The 526 is on our shopping list...

 

[PaulClements]

One thing you might consider Jeff is the resale value of the O'connor over the Manfrotto, then again the ammount you might lose reselling it might cover the cost of buying the whole manfrotto setup.

I'm seriously considering buying the Manfrotto myself and it would be great to hear your opinions on it with a similarly weighted setup to that expected of RedOne. The Manfrotto setup is aimed at the high end heavy ENG/EFP market, but in my opinion that's the kind of size and weight that RedOne is more comparible to than film cameras.

I don't see why this shouldn't work out too well and if you did choose to upgrade in a few months when you get your Red I'd buy it off you for $1300

 

[Jeff Kilgroe]

Thanks, Pig. Are there any other sticks to recommend? Reading the specs, I was figuring it to not be transport friendly, which will probably be OK for this setup. Considering the head alone is $1500 and B&H is throwing in the sticks for another $200 (vs. $600 for sticks alone) I don't see how I can go wrong.

I'm going to order the 526+528XB combo. If I don't like it, I'll send it back in favor of something else.

Paul, I'll definitely let you know how it works out. You'll have your RED before me I think with your #445, so I probably won't be ready to trade this tripod system in at that time.

Anyway, after losing one Cartoni head already and now I have two projects starting that will use the tripod system continuously, I need a new one. I've sold the Cartoni Focus system I had and this time around its 22lb capacity wasn't going to cut it anyway. I'd try to tough it out and rent a tripod until my RED shows up, but I just can't... The local shops have O'Connor 1030, Vinten Vision 11 and some Miller offerings that fit the bill. But at $125/day for most 30lb+ tripod systems, (that seems high to me), it makes no sense. After two weeks of use, I've already paid for the Bogen kit and the projects I'm starting will take 4 to 5 weeks to complete.