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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Tripod, what to buy

I'll be honest for a minute and say I don't know much about equipment, so in the coming months I might be asking a lot of questions regarding what to get etc. so if you could bare with me I would be grateful. In this case I'm wondering what makes a tripod better or worse? I hear about the O'connor as being one of the best from a lot on here, but what makes it the best? for a fluid head $7400+ (2060) I have to question what does that money buy that makes the system even worth that much? for a system that pans and tilts a camera, something which seems not all that technical, how do you rate which is better?
 
For fluid heads what makes one better is typically a combination of things. Construction quality, load capacity, how easy it is to adjust drag and how many potential settings, how easy it is to repeat a setup, ergonomics in terms of balance, how well the arm attaches and allows the operator to make camera moves... It's just a matter of which unit is "better" and much of this is subjective.

When shopping for a head or tripod system, go to some of the local shops and try some out. Have them mount a camera system comparable in weight and size to what you're using (or bring yours along). You may find that you prefer an O'Connor over another brand or that you really like Vinten.

As for price, fluid heads are one section of the market that is truly overpriced. A huge problem is the majority of large vendors (O'Connor, Sachtler, Vinten) are all owned by Vinten and its parent company. There's some price fixing going on... Other companies like Cartoni are selling some of their products cheaper, but only just.

I really liked my Cartoni Focus head until it failed. They replaced it under warranty, no questions, sent me a new one. But I'm moving on, it won't fit my needs over the next couple months, let alone when my RED ONE arrives. Besides, I think the cold combined with having it maxed is what did it in. I re-added the weights of my gear and I was right at 18lbs. In severe cold for a few days straight on a 22lb rated head, that may have something to do with the failure. Anyway, here I am. going for that Bogen 526 kit. We'll see how it works out. I'd prefer the O'Connor 2060 -- I've rented it before and played with it on several occasions. I love that head. But my current tripod budget is about $5K, or less than the 2060 head alone. And I've searched in vain for the last few days trying to find a used one.
 
AppliedVisual said:
I'm going to order the 526+528XB combo. If I don't like it, I'll send it back in favor of something else.

Paul, I'll definitely let you know how it works out. You'll have your RED before me I think with your #445, so I probably won't be ready to trade this tripod system in at that time.
Click to expand...

Great Stuff Jeff, I look forward to your review. I was only joking about buying it off of you anyway (Although if you were selling it and I needed it then I'd be interested of course :))
 
Hey that's OK. I still haven't ordered it... I'm trying to haggle a better rental deal from a local shop before I just blow $1700. I'd probably do better buying and then re-selling, but I'd rather just go pick up the tripod, use it and return it and hope I can get by for $1K or less.

I need the new tripod system to actualy be here next week, preferably so I can start using it on thursday/friday. So I'll have to make up my mind here pretty quick.
 
OK, here's the update on the tripod...

I did order the Bogen/Manfrotto 526 head w/528XB legs combo -- it includes a bag too, btw, which the B&H site doesn't specify. Anyway, B&H called to inform me that it's actually out of stock and will take another 7 to 10 days for them to get it in stock and then it ships to me. Wasn't going to work... Because of their pricing with Bogen, they couldn't sell me the head and sticks and the bag (all in stock as separate items) as the same discount bundle. Oh well... They did make me the offer of 15% off any tripod legs and bag I bought to go with the 526 head. Not a bad deal, but I couldn't come up with anything (that they actually had in stock, which is like nothing) that would fit my needs and the budget I've set. Since I'm going with the cheaper 526 head, I wanted to keep this as a cheaper kit since it's an interim solution..

So, I did some more searching and thinking and happened to do a search on nextag for the 526. And Amazon.com has the same kit for the same price plus free shipping - should've checked there to begin with. 3 left in stock it said, so I ordered on there. Should have it in a few days and will let everyone know what I think.
 
The O'Connor 2060 is an amazing head. I've been checking it out for past week. It's a decision between the Vinten Vision 11 and the O'Connor 1030. However B&H doesn't stock O'Connor and all sales are final :huh:
 
Abu

Make sure you get the 1030HD or whatever they are calling the heavier weight capacity 1030 now. It does not cost that much more but takes quite a bit more weight.
 
Yeah, I'm lovin the O'Connor heads - my favorite of all the ones I've tried. I just couldn't squeeze one into the budget on short notice and I didn't want to spend that much before I get my RED setup and before NAB. I almost bought a Vision 11 package from B&H with the 2-stage CF sticks, carry case, mid-level spreader. It's about $6,500. But I'm concerned that a fully loaded RED may get to 35lbs or so and put a real strain on these heads.... So I think this Bogen will work for starters... I'm also glad that I ordered from Amazon too -- if the Bogen kit is junk I can send it back and not pay that nasty 15% restock fee from B&H.

If the Bogen is junk, then I'm probably going to just say fk it and go for the Vinten Vision 100. It's about $1K more than the Vision 11 for a complete package, but then I can support any camera system up to 44lbs and that should prove to be a nice comfortable limit for the RED ONE. Other than that, the Vision 11, Cartoni Delta and O'Connor 1030 are all great, but top out at 35 to 39lbs. ...If I could afford $10K for a tripod system, I would just get the O'Connor 2060 and some really nice stix to go with it, a nice spreader, padded bag and some other goodies.
 
Finner said:
Abu

Make sure you get the 1030HD or whatever they are calling the heavier weight capacity 1030 now. It does not cost that much more but takes quite a bit more weight.
Click to expand...

1030HD 39lbs or 1030HDS 53lbs

Similar to the 1030HD, the 1030HDS has a greater load bearing ability, but with a reduced tilt range of -60° to +60°

Finner, so your suggesting the HDS?
 
Finner said:
Make sure you get the 1030HD or whatever they are calling the heavier weight capacity 1030 now. It does not cost that much more but takes quite a bit more weight.
Click to expand...

There's the 1030HD and the 1030HDS. The 'S' model supports about 14lbs more, but you compromise the tilt range -- it's only +/-60 instead of +/-90. Other than that, they're are identical. Oh and the 'S' model is about $550 more.

<edit> Abu beat me to it... :)
 
Abu Reno said:
1030HD 39lbs or 1030HDS 53lbs

Similar to the 1030HD, the 1030HDS has a greater load bearing ability, but with a reduced tilt range of -60° to +60°

Finner, so your suggesting the HDS?
Click to expand...

Thats a tough decision I was not aware of the tilt reduction factor.

my advice for what it is, is wait for NAB. There has been a bunch of little hints on this site by key people that seem to know quite a bit that we should wait till NAB. People in the RED loop of information have hinted to wait for both software and hardware camera support products because there will be a bit of a surprise. I have a feeling there could be a bunch of companies teaming up with red to offer support equipment at a fair price.
 
Plus, if you are going you can try all of your opions out and see what works best for you.
 
Abu Reno said:
The O'Connor 2060 is an amazing head. I've been checking it out for past week. It's a decision between the Vinten Vision 11 and the O'Connor 1030. However B&H doesn't stock O'Connor and all sales are final :huh:
Click to expand...
Have you actually tried operating with Vinten Vision heads? I think they're awesome! I love their drag system--much different from Sachtler. No matter what drag you set, you can always pull off a whip pan, if needed. I mean, Sachtlers are arguably the best, IMO, but I prefer the Vintens. I use Sachtlers at work for our BVW600s, but bought a used Vinten Vision 5 for only $1,000, for my full-sized, 15-lb. Sony DSR450.
 
I purchased the Sachtler DV 8/100 SB Fluid Head. Believe it or not I wasn't to crazy about it. However, I did get a chance to visit the Vinten booth a few years back at NAB. I was impressed with their products.
 
I'll second Ralph's opinion of Vinten! I've really been checking out the Vision 11 and Vision 100 heads / systems. When they told me the cheap Bogen kit was out of stock, I almost went for a Vision 11 package (even though it blows my currrent budget by $1500). The Vision 100 would be the Vinten to get, but that starts pushing $7500 with the head, sticks mid-level spreader... But we'll see what the Bogen is like. Even though it's only $1700, I have this sick feeling like I just bought a real turd and I'm not too confident about the whole thing. But it should hold me until NAB and hopefully until I get my RED (August if my prediction holds up).

Of all the heads I've tried lately in the local shop, the O'Connors are still my favorite. The shop had an XLH1 mounted with a mini35, rods, mattebox, follow-focus, 7" monitor. I was ready to buy that 2060 package until they quoted me just under $11K ($7400 for the head, $2600 legs, plus other goodies). The O'Coonors are so silky smooth and the continuous adjustments work the same every time. The Vintens are a close second. They have a nearly continuous drag system, technically it's 9 levels, but you can dial in between. I wasn't as impressed with the Sachtler or Miller heads, but I think I like the Sachtler tripod legs the best. I'd like to try some of the nicer Cartoni heads (Delta, etc..), but no local shops stock them - special order only.
 
Wow, that was quick!

Wow, that was quick!

Well, UPS has amazed me... They delivered that Bogn 526/528XB kit just now. Not only did Amazon ship it 2-day air for free, UPS brought it from KY to CO and delivered it in less than a day. sweeeeet...

Anyway, I'm going to go unpack it and set it up. I'll report back. I'll take some pictures and whatnot too I guess.
 
My initial impression of the 526/528XB combo...

IT'S CRAP! ...more to come in a bit.
 
OK, I was going to write up a detailed review, take pictures and all that, but honestly it's not worth it. If anyone wants to see pictures of the 526/528XB combo kit, let me know I'll snap a few before I box it up monday morning.

This package is complete shite. That's the nicest I can put it, but I'll elaborate with a mini-review.

The good:

Cosmetically, the 526 head looks pretty good. It doesn't have that beefy, robust, rugged quality look of the bigger Sachtler or O'Connor heads, but it looks good. The 100mm bowl mount works as it should and even though the spirit level isn't illuminated, it's still easy to see and level-up the head before tightening it down, it has a nice rubberized grip to tighten the bowl clamp which is easy to work with and nicer than some of the steel or aluminum shaft I've used on some other heads in the past. Directional locks for pan and tilt work as they should and do lock the head/camera firmly in place. fluid motion for panning horizontally is smooth all the way around the full 360 degrees and very consistant. However, it doesn't allow for a whip-pan type action and tends to tighten if forced if moved too quickly.

As for the 528XB tripod... It's solid built, decent mid-level spreader is included, the end shafts with rubber feet can be flipped over for heavy duty steel spikes.

The carrying bag included is nice. Holds the legs, head and there's an internal zippered pouch for pan-bar and other goodies. It dual nylon strap handles on each side of zippered opening that velcro together. There's also a shoulder strap that can be detached or adjusted. The spreader has 5 steps to it's teloscoping arms... so that's handy.

The bad:

Fluid drag only has four settings -- 0=totally off, 1=low, 2=medium, 3=high... Setting #3 should also be known as the must weight-down tripod with sandbags setting, because you'll push the tripod over if you're not careful, even with 20lbs of crap mounted on the head. With the drag system off, it's free motion. Panning is smooth most of the way around, but as you come full circle, it catches or rubs slightly and consistantly in the same spot as you continuously rotate 360 degrees. Doesn't matter if you rotate clockwise or counter. The tilt isn't as smooth as the pan by far, with or without the drag. The internal spring system gains tension the farther you tilt the head and more so tilting forward than back. There is a tension control knob that shifts spring tension front to back or back to front to help counter-balance your camera gear. I found it is nearly impossible to turn this knob in most situations, and I often felt as if I was going to break something by turning it. The trick is to find the point where spring tension between front and back is relatively even and turn the knob slowly as you tilt the head to keep spring tension constant. But even with that, I can't see any effects of this tension control, or at least not with any significant amount of gear mounted. With just the stock HVX and nothing else or with an empty head, the tension does have an effect. The pan bar is cheap and crappy and uses plastic ring clamps with a thumb screw to tighten the clamps and hold pieces in place. I can see where over time these will easily wear and become non-functional.... Deliberately cheap and poor design for the pan bar as well as the lock-down mechanism for the quick-release plate.

The tripod is excessively heavy. All stainless steel construction, the spreader is a bit weak for this level of tripod and so is the plastic top piece/bowl mount with leg hinges. The inner leg pipes that telescope out are locked into place by a locking knob or thumb screw that simply applies pressure against the pipe. These inner pipes aren't all that thick either. I wouldn't trust the locking knobs with a full 30lbs of camera gear on this thing and obviously Manfrotto felt the same way. There are holes in the internal pipes at about 8" increments and they give you a solid-steel pin attached to each leg by a thin steel cable. The pin is to go through these leg holes as a safety measure or even as a means of support and then the lock knobs are there just to aid in holding position. The reversable feet are relatively weak at the point where the rubber foot piece is attatched to the steel spike. It's a thin piece of stamped steel bent into a tube shape and open 1/8" along the side. if this tripod were dropped onto the rubber feet or spikes (even in it's bag), it could pop the feet or spikes out of this metal holding piece. Another example of just crappy design. One of my rubber feet was loose, but I fixed that with some water-pump pliers and a dishrag (so as not to scuff up the metal piece). Did I mention this tripod is heavy? It is, tripod legs and head in the bag weigh 34lbs. And it's 48" long. Not exactly the most portable unit, but I knew that going into it.

The ugly:

Oh where to begin... Let's pick up with the quick-release plate. The anti-rotation pin is loose and sloppy and is pushed into place by a thin spring. There's hardly enough force there to even consider it functional. Even with the 1/4" screw titghtened down as far as I'm willing to crank it, the anti-rotation pin fails to firmly hold the HVX from shifting slightly on the front if pushed on without much force. I don't foresee this as a huge issue, but it is something representative of the overall quality of this unit. The plate slides onto the head from the front or rear and another wimpy-ass spring latches in to keep the plate from sliding all the way out on either side (uh, yeah, right). Balancing the camera is accomplished by turning the tilt drag to 0/off and positioning the plate forward or backward of center to balance. There is no spirit level or indicators for leveling the camera - so have one handy or trust your eye. Even with the drag off, the spring tension in the head is enough to screw with your leveling efforts if that's not adjusted right too. Anyway, once you're leveled up, you tighten down the plate with a singel thumb screw that does nothing more than push against the side of the plate. This is a serious joke... If this thumb screw fails, and that isn't far fetched at all, in fact quite likely in outdoor shooting environments if the temperature drops rapidly or other factors kick in. But if it fails and your camera/plate starts to slide if you're tilted, there's no way that wimpy-ass spring clip I mentioned is going to hold back 20lbs of camera.

The fluid drag settings are selected by a dial for pan/rotation and another for tilt. The dials lock into place on each setting. When engaging a drag setting of 1, 2 or 3, the head must be moved a bit for it to lock-in and take effect.

There is no way on Earth to actually balance any camera on this head. None. Turning the tilt drag off and doing my best to adjust tension and veriftying that jsut my stock HVX at about 8lbs is perfectly balanced and level, I can switch on the drag and let it sit for 10 minutes. It will be tilted slightly up or down when I come back. The head does nothing to return to a level state other than what the internal front/back spring tension dictates and even with that, when the fluid drag is on, all bets are off on it being consistant. If I let the camera sit and it tilts up, I can push it back to level and let it sit again and in another 10 minutes it could be tilted slightly down, without adjusting the plate positon or anyting and even using an 8" spirit level to verify the camera is stitting balanced and level before I walk away.

Heavier loads fare even worse. In fact, there is no way this head could handle the full 35lb rated capacity. My 22lb rated Cartoni Focus 100 handled 20lbs of gear a lot more elegantly than this head does. At least it would properly balance and remain consistant. It would also tilt smoothly and consistantly.

As I mentioned before, the tension increases as you tilt further off-center. It's bad, on drag level 3, I felt as if I was going to break the pan-bar free from its tooth-washer and cheap plastic thumb-screw before I reached the full +70 degree tilt.

The end...

There you have it folks, my review of the $1700 P.O.S. tripod kit. I don't know what I'm going to do now, but I'm going to keep hunting for deals or I may just suck it up and buy that Vinten kit I've tried at the shop. Why do those O'Connors have to be so expensive? Probably because they work, whereas this one doesn't. I wouldn't even recommend this Bogen/Manfrotto head to a casual hobbyist. And I'm not any elitist filmmaker either. I suppose it's possible that I received a dud, but I already spent a whole day playing with it and I'm done. I'll go ahead and snap some pictures tomorrow morning then the light is better and I'll post a couple.

So if you guys read all the way through this, thanks for your time. All I can say is don't buy this tripod head/combo -- even if you're on a really tight budget. It isn't worth half of what I paid. It was $1700... I only paid $1200 for my Cartoni Focus setup and while it's rated for 13lbs less, it's an overall much better and more elegant unit.
 
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