Tripod System Suggestions

[JT Thurlow]

Hello,

I’m looking for a new tripod system. I’m often a one-man unit and carry everything so need something that is transportable but achieves perfectly smooth results. I would ideally like to use a slider (not huge) on a single tripod too, if that is realistic.

I tested a Sachtler Flowtech 75 with my Scarlet-X a while ago and wasn’t pleased with the results in regard to pans and tilts. Should I really be looking for a 100mm bowl?

Is buying used safe?

Is it a good idea to spend significantly more on a great head?

I’ve read good things about Miller (and have thought about maybe getting a used Arrow 25 system), and know from experience that O’Connors are great (rented an enormous one), though am not sure what heads/sticks are worth trying to find used, if used is an option.

My budget is flexible ($2K-4K, maybe more), but essentially the smallest required to get perfectly smooth shots.

Many thanks

 

[Alex Lubensky]

Try looking at Sachtler 7+7 or 9+9 heads. Both have 100mm options and are easy to carry alone. I own 7+7 head and it fulfills my Epic MX with RPZ 18-85 2.9 lens combo. Setup weight is around 17.5 kg and you have even more weight and counterbalance room. Pan/tilt of the head is close to 150mm ones. Also for heavier setups you can always adapt to 150mm legs.

but the head itself still has some wobble if you shake it. To completely eliminate this issue you have to look at 150mm heads.

also miller has some nice price/performance heads among 150mm ones

 

[M Harvey]

Alex's advice is good-- the Sachtler 100mm heads are nice.

All that said, keep in mind that there's no magic bullet for smoothness. You can have a great head and sticks-- and find that wobble is introduced by your baseplate, or that there's flex from your rods when you use a follow focus. These heads will get you 75% of the way there, but then you may have to adjust little things.

By "not huge," I'm imagining you're talking about sliders like Rhino, Edelkrone, etc. These are totally different from sliders made by Trost, MYT Works, Matthews, Proaim Flyking, etc. The following doesn't apply to those, which will travel in a case bigger than your tripod and won't mount on any common single tripod.

In my experience, a lightweight slider on a single tripod is a difficult proposition if you also want to be able to pan/tilt with a camera/lens of moderate size. With most lightweight sliders, they're so narrow that whatever you mount on top wants to pitch forward or backward. It's also the case that they tend to flex as the camera moves. And even with moderate weight-- say an 8 lb camera package on a slider that advertises it can take 25 lbs--, you may find that your 100mm bowl adapter (connection to tripod) slips when the camera is 14" past the center of gravity.
The lightest weight way to help with the issue of the slider flexing or the bowl adapter slipping: you can try monopods screwed into either end of the slider (with tripod in the center). Once you do that, you've only secured the platform-- you still have the problem of the fluid head and camera stacked on top of the slider vibrating/bouncing as you move.

Keep in mind too that most lightweight sliders will not accept a bowl-mount (75mm or 100mm) head-- most have only take a flat base (with screw mount). If you add a 6" riser that accepts a 75mm/100mm bowl head, you'll find that you've just raised the center of gravity, and all of the smoothness problems will be far worse.

I don't mean to be a downer! Just want to keep expectations reasonable. Practice helps a lot, and you'll find that you'll need to do a lot of tweaking of little things.

 

[Nick Gardner]

I think you will get more bang for your buck with something other than Sachtler. Honestly they haven't been the same since they started making them in Mexico. i am a fan of Cartonis. I have several. The gamma or the delta used would do nicely. As far as sticks go, here's a link to my favorite lean crew tripod. It goes from hi hat to 6' tall, is light, rock solid, and doesn't need a spreader. By far my favorite tripod if i have to lug it around, or if it's only me and assistant.

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/prod...8ZJu8BZ1_5Td5QeNARRKfurMJP6y5qv0aAohFEALw_wcB

 

[Cameron K]

I think you will get more bang for your buck with something other than Sachtler. Honestly they haven't been the same since they started making them in Mexico. i am a fan of Cartonis. I have several. The gamma or the delta used would do nicely. As far as sticks go, here's a link to my favorite lean crew tripod. It goes from hi hat to 6' tall, is light, rock solid, and doesn't need a spreader. By far my favorite tripod if i have to lug it around, or if it's only me and assistant.

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/prod...8ZJu8BZ1_5Td5QeNARRKfurMJP6y5qv0aAohFEALw_wcB

Confirming that. Haven't used Cartonis but on my last full-time gig we bought six newer Sachters and they were all sad. Older 75,100, and 150mm Sachtler heads and legs are still great and can be rebuilt to be silent no matter how badly they've been abused.

 

[Josh Rainey]

I bought an used from OConnor 515s, which came from a University Film department = $1300, then sent it to Trans Film in North Hollywood for a service which was $400. Then stuck that on some Flowtech 100 legs. Best of old and new. I have not used it in conjunction with any slider, but normal pans/tilts are solid up to an 85mm. Punched-in to 2k crop can even be smooth with perfect balance and less coffee. Komodo, loaded heavy. Pretty good value considering the new OConnor 1040 flowtech system is 10k, and overkill for my camera weight.

I wanted stepless counterbalance adjustment, if I hadn't been able to get the OConnor I would have probably gone Cartoni as the value seems high, and stepless counterbalance. I was wary of the new Aktiv sachtler heads.

 

[Alex Lubensky]

Cartoni are good, but I've used only the 150mm ones. IMHO 150mm is usually too heavy to carry alone

But price-wise one can find some really good options on ebay for c40s head.

 

[M Harvey]

OConnor 515s,

Good head. So you'll need a slider that accepts a 100mm bowl, which typically means one of the large ones I'd mentioned (MYT, Matthews, Trost, etc.). I'm not sure what single tripod would handle a slider of that type-- if any.

 

[Christopher A. Bell]

Look for used Vinten 100’s on eBay. They are usually absolute steals today, since so many people fancy themselves “filmmakers” and look down their noses on “broadcast” gear. There is a reason that almost every broadcast/network camera shooting sports, studio and live shows is sitting on a Vinten head.

Give me a Vinten or O’Connor any day. Sachtlers are smooth, but I don’t like the way they operate(stepped counterbalance and stepped drag that freewheels when you change settings). The old Cartoni’s are nice, but not a fan of the newer stuff. Miller and Manfrotto and the like are just toys.

I shoot long lens on a Vinten 100/Sachtler Flowtech 100’s if I need to be more portable/nimble or Vinten 250/Sachtler Flowtech 100’s if weight/ease of transport isn’t as much of a priority.

 

[Josh Rainey]

Good head. So you'll need a slider that accepts a 100mm bowl, which typically means one of the large ones I'd mentioned (MYT, Matthews, Trost, etc.). I'm not sure what single tripod would handle a slider of that type-- if any.

Yeah, I haven't made it that far and might not....

So maybe less appropriate for this thread, I'm just in for the pans and tilts.

 

[Alex Lubensky]

Look for used Vinten 100’s on eBay. They are usually absolute steals today, since so many people fancy themselves “filmmakers” and look down their noses on “broadcast” gear. There is a reason that almost every broadcast/network camera shooting sports, studio and live shows is sitting on a Vinten head.

Give me a Vinten or O’Connor any day. Sachtlers are smooth, but I don’t like the way they operate(stepped counterbalance and stepped drag that freewheels when you change settings). The old Cartoni’s are nice, but not a fan of the newer stuff. Miller and Manfrotto and the like are just toys.

I shoot long lens on a Vinten 100/Sachtler Flowtech 100’s if I need to be more portable/nimble or Vinten 250/Sachtler Flowtech 100’s if weight/ease of transport isn’t as much of a priority.

The problem with Vinten is that it's not a topload head. Putting on and off a 15kg setup is a nightmare with a sliding system. Otherwise Vinten is OK, nothing more. Of course, the older ones I'm speaking of. Everything new from Vinten is basically Manfrotto. Also most Vinten systems range below 12kg, which isn't really good for a cinema-style setup with matteboxes, monitors etc. (the centerweight height and the length of the camera vastly change the capacity of the head to withhold the powers applied)

 

[JT Thurlow]

Alex's advice is good-- the Sachtler 100mm heads are nice.

All that said, keep in mind that there's no magic bullet for smoothness. You can have a great head and sticks-- and find that wobble is introduced by your baseplate, or that there's flex from your rods when you use a follow focus. These heads will get you 75% of the way there, but then you may have to adjust little things.

By "not huge," I'm imagining you're talking about sliders like Rhino, Edelkrone, etc. These are totally different from sliders made by Trost, MYT Works, Matthews, Proaim Flyking, etc. The following doesn't apply to those, which will travel in a case bigger than your tripod and won't mount on any common single tripod.

Many thanks for the responses.

So, in regard to a slider, I was thinking of something like a small (2ft) 100mm bowl Flyking (I previously used one which as about 2.4ft, which was a good size). From the sounds of it I'll need to have additional support, even with small models? Are cheap/light monopods okay, or do they have to be fairly heavy-duty? I'm trying to work out if it will actually be possible for me to carry this gear around all day or if I'll need to think about bringing someone with me.

And it’s possible that a 75mm could actually be an option for an 8lb rig…and 100mm isn't exactly necessary for smooth pans/tilts? Of course, the lighter/cheaper the better, although I'm not sure what 75mm systems would fit the bill.

 

[JT Thurlow]

Give me a Vinten or O’Connor any day.

The problem with Vinten is that it's not a topload head. Putting on and off a 15kg setup is a nightmare with a sliding system. Otherwise Vinten is OK, nothing more. Of course, the older ones I'm speaking of. Everything new from Vinten is basically Manfrotto. Also most Vinten systems range below 12kg, which isn't really good for a cinema-style setup with matteboxes, monitors etc. (the centerweight height and the length of the camera vastly change the capacity of the head to withhold the powers applied)

Affordable O’Connors seem to be pretty hard to come by used (my budget is pretty low, but flexible…$2k is comfortable, $5k is painful, $8k is improbable...but I need a tripod that works perfectly).

Used Vinten Vision 100s are cheap, and tempting. But there isn't a consensus here on that and apparently new ones aren't any good? Is there a way to tell if they old/good?

I am wondering what the practical difference is between say a Vinten/Cartoni and an O’Connor (and are all O’Connors great)? I mean, either pans/tilts are flawlessly smooth, or they aren’t?

My rig is usually fairly light (8lbs) and stripped down, and I mainly use a 50mm. It would be good to use non-heavyweight telephotos (like a Canon 70-200) with it too though.

On my first feature, we used a pretty cheap Manfrotto—a minority of the pan/tilt shots were perfectly usable, most were fixed in post, and in general some shots that I wanted were thrown out (I have very high standards!). So, I really want something that will get it right in camera and to not worry about having to fix or lose things.

 

[Christopher A. Bell]

The problem with Vinten is that it's not a topload head. Putting on and off a 15kg setup is a nightmare with a sliding system. Otherwise Vinten is OK, nothing more. Of course, the older ones I'm speaking of. Everything new from Vinten is basically Manfrotto. Also most Vinten systems range below 12kg, which isn't really good for a cinema-style setup with matteboxes, monitors etc. (the centerweight height and the length of the camera vastly change the capacity of the head to withhold the powers applied)

I'm talking about Vinten's "real" stuff. 100's, 250's and up. Not their toys. Yes, some of their heads native plates are sliding wedges, but most of what I shoot with has VCT wedges/plates and the heads that I'm referring to have payloads well beyond 12kg(26.5 lbs)(which of course, is affected by the payloads center of gravity, etc.). My 100's have a rated payload cap. of 44 lbs and 250 is 72lbs.

 

[Christopher A. Bell]

Affordable O’Connors seem to be pretty hard to come by used (my budget is pretty low, but flexible…$2k is comfortable, $5k is painful, $8k is improbable...but I need a tripod that works perfectly).

Used Vinten Vision 100s are cheap, and tempting. But there isn't a consensus here on that and apparently new ones aren't any good? Is there a way to tell if they old/good?

I am wondering what the practical difference is between say a Vinten/Cartoni and an O’Connor (and are all O’Connors great)? I mean, either pans/tilts are flawlessly smooth, or they aren’t?

My rig is usually fairly light (8lbs) and stripped down, and I mainly use a 50mm. It would be good to use non-heavyweight telephotos (like a Canon 70-200) with it too though.

On my first feature, we used a pretty cheap Manfrotto—a minority of the pan/tilt shots were perfectly usable, most were fixed in post, and in general some shots that I wanted were thrown out (I have very high standards!). So, I really want something that will get it right in camera and to not worry about having to fix or lose things.

I think the poster that called them "basically Manfrotto" is referring to their smaller, cheaper heads(like 8's, 11's, etc). What I shoot with, 100's and 250's are not from their toy line. They are pushing $7K & $10K each, respectively, new.

 

[Eric Santiago]

I had a Scarlet MX and a Miller Compass 25 on Solo CF sticks for years.
Mostly for run gun work int/ext.
Can only do the basics like EF lens, 7" touch, and V-mount battery, sometimes matte box.
That was tricky to deal with solo especially outside.
When the camera did go out for bigger shoots, they provided real support.
The Compass 25 did get used at times on simple jibs, etc...
Great head but maybe just a little under for a medium kitted RED.

In regards to sliders, I can't deal with anything less than a Camtram/TrackinaBox system.
I've had too many bad experiences using lesser sliders.
Had other options in my early days like Edelkrone (sold it in 2 months) and worked for many years with a Cinevate on a Sachtler 15SB/2StageCF using lighter cameras (EVA-1) and when I tried to set up my old Scarlet MX with the basics, I almost lost the camera a few times.
So no to that going forward.

At the moment I am without tripod support so borrowing a 20SB/2StageCF combo currently for personal use.
I too will be shopping around for a head/sticks in the near future.

 

[Christopher A. Bell]

In regards to sliders, I can't deal with anything less than a Camtram/TrackinaBox system.
I've had too many bad experiences using lesser sliders.
Had other options in my early days like Edelkrone (sold it in 2 months) and worked for many years with a Cinevate on a Sachtler 15SB/2StageCF using lighter cameras (EVA-1) and when I tried to set up my old Scarlet MX with the basics, I almost lost the camera a few times.
So no to that going forward.

At the moment I am without tripod support so borrowing a 20SB/2StageCF combo currently for personal use.
I too will be shopping around for a head/sticks in the near future.

I thought I was one of the few old dogs left with one of those set-ups. First shoot I ever did with a CamTram, I used an extension ladder. The guys we were shooting absolutely loved the “ingenuity” of it. But it was a PITA to transport. Then Bruce came up with the TiaB and I jumped on that. I still have it all(and I’ll never sell it), but it rarely comes out anymore. 99% of the time, it’s my MYT Works slider that sees the action, today.

 

[Eric Santiago]

I thought I was one of the few old dogs left with one of those set-ups. First shoot I ever did with a CamTram, I used an extension ladder. The guys we were shooting absolutely loved the “ingenuity” of it. But it was a PITA to transport. Then Bruce came up with the TiaB and I jumped on that. I still have it all(and I’ll never sell it), but it rarely comes out anymore. 99% of the time, it’s my MYT Works slider that sees the action, today.

Haha, yep we used the ladders even when we had the TiaB
Sometimes it just calls for a longer ride LOL!
I don't do a lot of solo slider work and have a Cinevate to suffer with.
Maybe one day I'll look into them cool Trost/MYT options.

 

[JT Thurlow]

Look for used Vinten 100’s on eBay. They are usually absolute steals today, since so many people fancy themselves “filmmakers” and look down their noses on “broadcast” gear. There is a reason that almost every broadcast/network camera shooting sports, studio and live shows is sitting on a Vinten head.

Give me a Vinten or O’Connor any day. Sachtlers are smooth, but I don’t like the way they operate(stepped counterbalance and stepped drag that freewheels when you change settings). The old Cartoni’s are nice, but not a fan of the newer stuff. Miller and Manfrotto and the like are just toys.

I shoot long lens on a Vinten 100/Sachtler Flowtech 100’s if I need to be more portable/nimble or Vinten 250/Sachtler Flowtech 100’s if weight/ease of transport isn’t as much of a priority.

Please can you let me know if you think the Vision 100 would be suitable for a rig that is typically 8.25-8.5lbs? There are other options that are apparently a better fit for this weight range (e.g. 8 or 11) but I haven't been able to find any of those used, or with a mid-level spreader.

I'm not sure what the dangers are of being beneath the recommended load limit and can't find much info about this.

 

[Eric Santiago]

I'm not sure what the dangers are of being beneath the recommended load limit and can't find much info about this.

There are def risks of overloading a tripod.
I've had the displeasure of experiencing it.
I also noticed a difference between a Sachtler 15 and 20.
I had the 15 on CF sticks (mid-spreader) for years and one day decided to try the 20 and wow, I felt more secure.
The 20 is def way overkill for my base setup.
Maybe just in my head but from the pan/tilt alone I can tell the diff.