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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Tripod suggestions, can't decide

J

Jon Furtado

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Hello,

I'm debating buying my first tripod for my Canon XL2 but also want it to last for a bit when i eventually get a basic red system, (RED ONE or probably a RED SCARLET).

Does anyone have any suggestions on brands? I'm looking at the following:

Vinten Vison 3 Double Stage System
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/234296-REG/Vinten_V3_AP2_VISION_3_Aluminum_Tripod.html

Cartoni Cartoni F106 Professional Tripod System
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/537008-REG/Cartoni_F106_Cartoni_F106_Professional_Tripod.html

I know the red can get alot heavier than these tripods support, but I just want to get an idea of a good first tripod to buy to get started. I'm trying to make my money go towards the best equiptment for price.

Does anyone know any place that has better pricing than B&H? I just joined the reduser group and want to learn from all of your vast experience pool!
 
IMO, neither of those tripod heads are good enough for even a basic RED setup - the 22lb max capacity just isn't going to cut it. Both would be great for your XL2.
 
So would it be better to buy a beefier tripod now? or just resign to the fact that i'd have to buy another one at a later date?
 
The primary difference, obviously, between a Red and Scarlett is that Red can interchange lenses... which means it can drastically increase in weight. The 18-85 I believe is 10 lbs alone. I heard a tricked out Red can reach 40lbs+. So deciding whether you're getting a Red or Scarlett is key to what you should get now.

The "lightest" tripod head that will handle a Red is something like the Oconnor 1030 and the Cartoni Delta (Miller, Panther, & Sachtler have their versions too). And even these will max out in the 40's. Some Redusers are using the Oconnor 2060. Personally, I chose the Delta. There's another thread where I give my reasons. As far as tripods themselves, most mid-level tripods can easily handle the weight, so look at the other features like a mid-level vs ground spreader, etc. Of course, if you're thinking of putting on a jib, then that changes the ball game for the tripod too and you'll have to get a heavy duty tripod to handle the extra weight.

Good luck.
 
Most fluid head systems perform best with payloads in the middle of their rated range. ...Maybe a bit heavier than half-way.

Buying a beefier tripod may not be the answer here. Beefier tripods will cost more money in most situations and they may not perform very well for the XL2. The only beefier tripod I'm aware of that will hold RED and still fall under $2K is the Bogen 526. It handles payloads up to 35lbs, similar to the O'Connor 1030HD. But it's nowhere near as nice. It does work OK with heavier loads and some people here are using them. I originally bought one to try it out and returned it -- did a review on here about a year ago. The 526 won't work worth a crap for that XL2 system. I tried rigging up an HVX200 + monitor + some other gear and it was still too light. An O'Connor 1030HD would probably perform OK with the XL2 due to it's flexibility in adjustment. That is if you want to spend that much... And it's a little small for some of the bigger RED configurations. I can exceed a 1030 pretty easily just by going with the RED, Cooke 18-100, mattebox, RED Drive, LCD... The RED 18-85 is going to be close to the same size and weight as that Cooke lens.

I would recommend buying what you need now. Try to find a good deal on used gear. I see those Cartoni Focus systems come up for sale every now and then. I love using the Focus head with the Miller Solo CF sticks. It's a great tripod setup for mobile work and a very popular configuration for DVX and HVX shooters -- several of which are upgrading to RED and may need to dump some of that gear over the coming months.
 
I recently received my Miller Sprinter II CF 2- Stage sticks w/ midlevel spreaders and the OConnor 1030HDs head. I am thrilled with the package. It will be a very nice field package, light but sturdy. I will be using Red lenses and Canons maybe after I see and hear more about the adapters from Bridger. My max load on this rig will be about 35 lbs. Red/Brick/HD/cradle/lens/bottom plate/top mounts 2x/universals 2x/18"rods 2x/Red MB/follow focus/top handle & ext/shotgun mic .
If you're going to load up more I'd suggest at least the 2060. Good luck and remember this is supposed to be fun. That's why we do what we do.
Michael
 
You're not going to get one setup that will work with both cameras unfortunately, they are at two ends of the spectrum as far as possible configuration and weight.

I was checking out a Red One the other week that had arrived in South Africa for a test shoot. It was at Panacam Africa (our S.A. Panavision rental house), and they had it on a Ronford Baker F2004 head and Ronford Baker medium duty tall legs with spreader. Absolutely fantastic!

I mentioned to them that I was considering the O'Connor 2060HD and they shook thier heads... tried it, hated it. I haven't used the 2060HD myself, but from the looks those guys gave me I dropped that idea right then and there.

They suggested I could look at the O'Connor 2575C but I can't afford it. So, I'm buying the Ronford Baker setup with a set of baby legs too.
 
Richard, did they intimate what it was about the 2060 that they didn't like? I know its a popular if expensive option for RED on the forum. The 2575 seems to be promoted as both a great option or overkill, but with things like the 18-85mm zoom I think still a possible if $$$$$ avenue.

Do you know what the weight limit for the RB F2004 is? Its always good to hear about working alternatives.

-Coz
 
Draegar said:
Richard, did they intimate what it was about the 2060 that they didn't like? I know its a popular if expensive option for RED on the forum. The 2575 seems to be promoted as both a great option or overkill, but with things like the 18-85mm zoom I think still a possible if $$$$$ avenue.

Do you know what the weight limit for the RB F2004 is? Its always good to hear about working alternatives.

-Coz
Click to expand...

It was something about balance, and just the overall weight of the setup they had on the head. I don't know if they were simply pushing it too hard, I'll give them a call and speak to the guys, see what thier exact reasons are.

To be honest, I would take thier reaction with it's due pinch of salt. I don't really buy it. I took thier advice on the Ronford Baker, because I was very impressed with the head, but still, I don't think the 2060 can be such a bad choice at all. It has a large following with Red users, and that can't be without reason.
 
Frankly, O'Connor builds the finest fluid heads in the industry. Most big pictures are shot with them or with gearheads from Arri. There is a reason. The downside is their weight.

IMHO, the best compromise between weight, perfomance, durability is the Sachtler Video 25 system:

http://www.sachtler.us/index.php?id=1721&exp_mode=product&exp_cid=111&exp_pid=362#111

It's with its 11.6 kilos light enough for a 3 men docu crew but strong enough to carry a fully tricked out RED. A payload of 36 kilos will be sufficient. Only an Optimo 24-290 will bring this head to its limits.

Hans
 
Hans von Sonntag said:
Frankly, O'Connor builds the finest fluid heads in the industry. Most big pictures are shot with them or with gearheads from Arri. There is a reason. The downside is their weight.

IMHO, the best compromise between weight, perfomance, durability is the Sachtler Video 25 system:

http://www.sachtler.us/index.php?id=1721&exp_mode=product&exp_cid=111&exp_pid=362#111

It's with its 11.6 kilos light enough for a 3 men docu crew but strong enough to carry a fully tricked out RED. A payload of 36 kilos will be sufficient. Only an Optimo 24-290 will bring this head to its limits.

Hans
Click to expand...

Sure, but I think this is mostly true of the 2575C which is in my opinion, the best fluid head on the planet and as you say, a workhorse of the 35mm world for sure, but the 2060HD isn't quite the 2575C, it's not really in the same catagory. Still in the top of it's league I would think, despite what the guys at Panacam that I spoke to say.
 
Two years ago I bought the Vinten Vision Head3 with a two stage aluminium tripod and I don't even find it good enough for my JVC 201. I couldn't make pans and tilts as smoothly as I like. Also the legs are worn allready (too much tightening the handles by camera-assistent) so right now it might collapse with the camera on it. After advise here on Redusers I decided to order O'Connor.
Getting the Red I will have to leave some other compromises aswell...
 
I love my Ocon 1030B, but always considered the 30lb max payload a limit (use an old Cartoni for heavier loads).
Now with Epic we see that future will give us lighter and lighter cams ... guess 1030 is really a good investment, still very portable in case you're kind of rebel without a crew.
 
Anyone looking at the O'Connor 1030HD should also seriously consider the Miller Arrow55. It has a higher payload (up to 55lbs) and is very nice. I'm seriously pleased with mine. Gibby is really liking his too. The miller is very similar in size, weight and price to the 1030HD. ..The Miller 950HD CF sticks are awesome - very solid, not too heavy. The Sprinter II CF sticks are nice too and lighter, but not as solid.
 
I heard from several people at NAB that there was some sort of issue/discripency of that rating versus how high the center of gravity is from the Miller head... or in other words it was that high because it was only rated from 3 inches away from cg, but it the payload was actually lower. Not that it matters if it's working for users and they're liking it. How is the Miller Arrow55 counterbalance? Can you easily set up the counterbalance and then tilt the camera at an extreme angle and will it stay put?
 
I'm not having any trouble with it, but I don't think I've exceeded a 40lb payload on it.

Yes, the 55lb payload is rated with the center of gravity at 3", 39lbs @ 6". No secret there. The O'Connor 1030HD rates their payload as 39lbs at 4" and 30lbs at 6".

If you need a 45lb payload or larger with a 6" cg, then take a serious look at the O'Connor 2060 -- can't go wrong there if it fits in your budget.
 
I've had loads as high as 52 lbs on my Miller Arrow 55 tripod - and it handled that maximum load quite well. Example: last December for one week in Hawaii I shot with a fully accessorized Optimo 24-290 zoom on RED #8, which also included a RED EVF, Element Technica EVF mount, ET V plate, ET ARRI bridge plate, ARRI matte box, etc. The weight of the bare Optimo alone was 24 pounds. I'd estimate the total load on the Miller 55 each day with that rig was about 52 pounds. The pan and tilt functions of the head were flawless - plus since we had to hike along beaches with the rig to get to where I was shooting big wave surfing, the relatively light weight of the Miller 55 for the hike was a plus.

My Miller 55 uses single stage alloy sticks. I also custom adapted my Element Technica 12" V plate with two additional drilled and tapped screw holes so i could use my Miller mini-plate on the ET V plate. My ET ARRI 15mm or 19mm bridge plates then slid directly onto the ET V plate.

Sidelight: The ET accessories seriously rock. I have been beta testing their entire line of accessories for several months now, long before any of them were finalized, and long before most of the other people on RED User who now use them ever saw them, let alone used them. Me and Ken Corben also invited Stephen Pizzo of ET to our LART testing in early December, and that's where many of the posters here who were LART team members, and who now love ET products, got their first look at and use of ET accessories.

Back to the Miller 55: The Miller Arrow 55 costs about $5,400 on B&H, and IMO is the best performance to price ratio of any tripod someone could use for mobile production with RED ONE. By the way, we also have an O'Connor 2575 in our company for those more stationary productions with hyper-heavy loads.
 
Hey Gibby. Any thoughts on Cartoni's Delta? I compared the Panther, Arrow 55, Oconnor 1030, Sachtler, and Delta. I'm going with the Delta. But I'm still open.
 
Jason Ing said:
Hey Gibby. Any thoughts on Cartoni's Delta? I compared the Panther, Arrow 55, Oconnor 1030, Sachtler, and Delta. I'm going with the Delta. But I'm still open.
Click to expand...

Hmmm...all those tripods are excellent. You just can't go too wrong once you get to a certain level and function of tripod. I've used all of the tripods you named and have a good opinion of each. I've also used several good Vinten tripods over the years. That said, I use a Miller 55 for mobile production, and an O'Connor 2575 for stationary big load production.
 
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