Transformers 2

[Liam Hall]

I think what's happening here is that we are just seeing a huge clash of TASTE.

**This is my own opinion and in no way am I claiming it as fact**

In the last few years, I have decided that there are FILMS and then there are MOVIES. Some people have a taste for films: There's rich characters, drama, multi-layered stories, and it leaves you thinking when the credits role and have an emotional affect on you. I.e. the Wrestler, Slumdog, what have you.

Then again, there are Movies. They allow us to escape for two hours into a theater and simply be entertained. Cool explosions, hot babes, funny dialog, whatever you want. Movies are good, plain old fun. I.e. Transformers, Anchorman, etc.

There is nothing wrong with either type, and I often watch both. Some days, I want something with substance and meaning. Other days, I just want to zone out and watch cars flipping over Martin Lawrence's head. There's no wrong answer. It's all about TASTE. So from a film-lover's perspective, Michael Bay sucks a big one. From a movie-lover's perspective, Terry Gilliam makes absolutely no sense, ever

I personally am a HUGE fan of Edgar Wright/Simon Pegg films because they own the middle ground between films and movies (in my book). Lots of great characters, substance, story coupled with gore, action, explosions, slick editing, etc. A close second to Wright/Pegg are Apatow films.

Judging by the box office numbers for Transformers 2, there is a higher population of movie lovers than there are film lovers. That's the way the cookie crumbles.

I know what you are getting at, but if you factor in the marketing spend for a movie like Transformers 2, you begin to understand why the box office figures are so high.

I like all kind of movies, but I'm finding it increasingly sad and depressing that there are so few movies that are aimed at an audience who demand more than simple titillation and loud explosions.

 

[Jay A. Kelley]

LOL!!! Can´t believe I read this!!! That was a really nice joke!!! :laugh:

My friend,

If you were faced with one day of having to direct one of Michael Bay's larger scenes, you'd walk on to set, look around, shit your pants in public, dance on one foot, and lie down in a fetal position crying for your Mommy.

You can not like his stoires, but to diss is ability and talent is to show you have very little understanding of the film making process.

These things are hard... Damn hard. And to operate at the size he does, is exremely difficult.

Jay

 

[Shawn Nelson]

My friend,

If you were faced with one day of having to direct one of Michael Bay's larger scenes, you'd walk on to set, look around, shit your pants in public, dance on one foot, and lie down in a fetal position crying for your Mommy.

You can not like his stoires, but to diss is ability and talent is to show you have very little understanding of the film making process.

These things are hard... Damn hard. And to operate at the size he does, is exremely difficult.

Jay

Agreed, his ability to logistically coordinate and direct massive spectacle is impressive, regardless of his obvious lack of storytelling ability. He's more like a successful military general than an artist.

 

[Jeff Kilgroe]

Thanks for this nice summary - so nobody here or elsewhere has any right to critizise the way Hollywood is going (down the toilet). The movies are 90% shit except vfx but people nonetheless watch and pay for them - well done! :thumbsup:

Uh, I'm not really sure what you're trying to say here. I criticized it plenty... The story was shit, the acting was crap, the dialogue was painful. And anyone who expected anything else from this film is off their nut. :crazy:

Hollywood is not going down the toilet. They've been there for some time. The studios are a business, in it to turn a profit. Movies like Transformers are merchandizing machines. To call them a "film" would be entirely inaccurate and completely insulting to the marketing forces that drive them. What confuses me are the people who are actually disappointed in the quality of the cinematic elements within this movie. Did no one here see the '07 Transformers movie? It was shit. ...And I still watched it and had a good time.

These are movies based on a cartoon, designed to sell toys. The merchandizing on these films will outweigh the box office many times over.

Like any other sequel, this movie had a lot to live up to... It had to conform to the swiss-cheese story style and brain-numbing dialogue of the original cartoon, and the '07 movie that preceded it. It delivered the goods.

I guess what I'm saying is that I don't understand all the complaining over the terrible story, acting, dialogue, etc... These "flaws" were entirely by design. This is the way this movie is supposed to be.

That said, I'm a sci-fi guy and I'm appalled at what Hollywood has done to the sci-fi genre. Or I should say, has not done with it. I've ranted over it before, not going to start here because I'd fill pages and pages. :incazzato: ...I will say that a wise man would do best to not set their standards too high for the over-hyped Avatar. Just sayin' And I'm a James Cameron fan, too.

 

[Tom Lowe]

Sci Fi is the genre that has been most lacking in recent decades, IMO. There was a time in the late 70s and early 80s when Sci Fi was thriving -- Blade Runner, Alien, Star Wars, etc -- but since then, good Sci Fi films have been few and far between.

To some extent, that it has been anime that has had to pick up the slack, with films like Ghost in the Shell. Like many people, I am hoping that Avatar will jumpstart the genre, once again.

 

[Liam Hall]

And to operate at the size he does, is exremely difficult.

Does size matter?

 

[Steven Caesare]

I've come to believe that the Bay movies I've enjoyed (TF1, The Island) have been accidents, and in general he knows how to make pretty pictures more than he knows how to depict compelling stories.

I will say the man does know how to shoot miltary gear...

-sc

 

[Ryan Manes]

Way to start a flame war, dude.

Not my intension.

But when people exclaim with a lot of passion that something is a stinking pile of shit, ya gotta know that the other side is gonna stand up and retort.


All I know is I was fully drawn in by this movie and never lost the suspension of disbelief.

And all this talk about Movies aren't Films and Films aren't Movies suggest that one is art and one is not.

They are all works of art. Some You like and Some you don't.

 

[Craig W. Bickerstaff]

and it leaves you thinking when the credits role and have an emotional affect on you. I.e. the Wrestler, Slumdog, what have you.

Well I don't know about you but I get this leaving almost every film I see weather its Transformers or Munich there is always something I take away from a film.

Does size matter?

The Godzilla marketing told me "yes it does"

but since then, good Sci Fi films have been few and far between.

I can't say I agree with this.

 

[Joyfool]

my favorite part was when the bureaucrat asks to speak with Optimus and the "truck" takes like 3 minutes to unravel into the 4 story giant. I was like dude did you contort yourself into the wrong thing??? I know there's a spoof in there somewhere. Optimus changes into a toaster by accident....

Did it really need to be 9 hours long? And what's the deal with Torturro pastey white ass? Did we need to see it up close and personal, pimples and all?

On a side note we saw another silly movie (silly in a good way)...Black Dynamite. He delivers, sign on the dotted line and he'll hand you yo' ass!


peace

 

[Gavin Greenwalt]

For every Star Wars of the 70s you have a movie like Silent Running. Which is far far far worse than Transformers.

And honestly I don't think Alien, Aliens, Terminator or Blade Runner are exactly exceptional in the entertainment or thinking department.

I think they each have a place in film history and were significant due to the iconography they contributed to the genres visually. But Blade Runner as a story I think for instance has really poor pacing.

I would say we have had quite a few good sci movies over the last 10-15 years:
Children of Men, Minority Report, Iron Giant, The Matrix, Twelve Monkies, The Chronicles of Riddick (Director's cut). I even think the fifth element deserves a nod.

Alien(s), Terminator and Blade Runner and Star Wars are really the only movies I would say are truly noteworthy from a 20 year period. I think there is a bit of historical compression of goodness. If you take any 20 year slot of movies you're bound to find a good list of great movies.

 

[Tim Griffith]

As BigLu and others above have said, this is a movie based on a cartoon. It is a marketing machine, designed to sell toys, t-shirts, and allow kids and young teens, and all of us "adults" who geeked out over the original cartoon in the '80s, to spend money and be entertained.

Not just kids Jeff, I have my little Optimus prime and Megatron right here on my desk fighting it out to save Planet Earth, Mwuhhhh huh huh...... :leaving:

 

[Michael T O'Connor]

Am I the only one who felt like a few of the FX shots were a bit sub par?

I saw in on IMAX, and there were two shots that stood out to me:

1) The twins fighting in the Indiana Jones set (come on Bay, you're better than that!). The shadows in a few of the shots were just off.

2) The big transformer, when knocking apart the pyramid. When the blocks were falling, they looked bad.

Now, some of this may be just the state of CGI, but I think some of it may have also been Bay's last minute editing. From what I know, he was sending in updates up until the last minute.

 

[Craig W. Bickerstaff]

I didn't have any problems with the visual effects.

 

[Michael Schrengohst]

The only thing I hated was when they were supposed to be in the Air & Space museum and then the transformers busts the door down and they are out in the "bone yard" which is near Tucson, AZ. Of course not many people will pick up on that.

 

[Steven Caesare]

Am I the only one who felt like a few of the FX shots were a bit sub par?

I saw in on IMAX, and there were two shots that stood out to me:

1) The twins fighting in the Indiana Jones set (come on Bay, you're better than that!). The shadows in a few of the shots were just off.

2) The big transformer, when knocking apart the pyramid. When the blocks were falling, they looked bad.

Now, some of this may be just the state of CGI, but I think some of it may have also been Bay's last minute editing. From what I know, he was sending in updates up until the last minute.

Yeah, I got the impression that the sheer number of FX shots may have forced some of them to be a bit rushed.

 

[Gavin Greenwalt]

Only irky vfx shot for me was a soft roto on Megan Fox in the garage. But I'm sure it was the correct decision since myself, the artist who did it and 8 other people out of the 20 million people who watched the movie probably noticed it.

 

[Danish P.V.]

My friend,

If you were faced with one day of having to direct one of Michael Bay's larger scenes, you'd walk on to set, look around, shit your pants in public, dance on one foot, and lie down in a fetal position crying for your Mommy.

You can not like his stoires, but to diss is ability and talent is to show you have very little understanding of the film making process.

These things are hard... Damn hard. And to operate at the size he does, is exremely difficult.

Jay

"look around, shit your pants in public, dance on one foot, and lie down in a fetal position crying for your Mommy" - ...summarizing your own experiences, right? :-D

But kidding aside, a movie set of these dimensions definately must be an interesting sighting, all the hard working people on set and those who manage the stuff (for sure, not Michael Bay ROFL). But it`s like stating that something MUST be great, awesome etc. as long as it`s a huge spectacle. There`s a difference in the scope of galaxies if there`s a magician at the controls on a Blockbuster as James Cameron or on the far other side..."Bay" (ah...that reminds me of that cinematic masterpiece "Armageddon" aka "Dumbnuts and a child molester in outer Space").

 

[Mark Phelan]

The only thing I hated was when they were supposed to be in the Air & Space museum and then the transformers busts the door down and they are out in the "bone yard" which is near Tucson, AZ. Of course not many people will pick up on that.

Yes, I did notice that, leaning over to my son to make a comment. I think it falls under the "abandon all thought and reason, so just shut up and give us your money" clause that some movies operate under. I've never noticed that behind the museum either. Seems just like it's Independence Avenue.

 

[Benni Diez]

I hated the crap out of TF2 the first time. But I did watch it a second time. And I must say, it was a slightly less painful experience. This time I knew somehow what the story was, where the incredibly stupid plot points were and had somewhat of an idea which robot belonged to whom.
So this time the action was a bit more enjoyable. But it's still just too damn long, the humor is ass-dumb and the pacing still doesn't work very well.
The actors did an overall decent job considering they must have had no f##king idea what was going on. And the VFX guys, well they did what they were told to do, and they did a hell of a job at that.
And to all the people saying 'meh meh meh it's just supposed to be a popcorn movie': A good popcorn movie provides MULTIPLE layers of enjoyment, ONE of them being the sheer enterteinment and eye candy. It still has to be well crafted in all the other aspects of filmmaking.
You can't just spend 150M on eye candy and expect people to say it's a good film. This is a good 2 1/2h compositing and pyrotechnics showreel.
Again, it's more enjoyable with the 2nd viewing, but it's still far away from being a wholly enjoyable film.
I think a good example for a bigass enterteining film working for the intellectuals and the numbnuts alike is Starship Troopers. I still love it on so many levels, it just doesn't wear off.
Just my 2 cents... now back to Bay-bashing