Welcome to our community

Be a part of something great, join today!

  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Trade-in Epic X for Epic FF35

ehehehehe on that bimonthly basis you're right.. you're missing something thou.. wrote at least.. when a truly indy movie project goes on a several-monthly basis.. to succeed.

red is the difference between to be or not to be.. truly indy.
 
Agreed, Roberto. . .

We shot our first feature over 3+ months. We are planning on shooting our second one over 4 months. Rentals just don't work in that environment.

Stephen
 
This is an interesting thread to read how some of you are dealing with the old and new business models of dealing with amortization and rejuvenation/upgrade.

The modular foundation is really something that we just touched on with the RED ONE ( upgradable sensor, media modules and mounts, ) and have taken to a whole new level with the DSMC cameras, I think will be interesting to watch over the next couple years how this plays into everyone's accounting.

If there are any Medium Format guys here you can see how the Mamiya RZ67 has lived a very long life, and is still used extensively in the fashion world, mostly due to the fact that it was developed almost 30 years ago to be somewhat modular.. even today almost every digital back company still makes an adapter to keep that camera in service with the newest technology.... on a body that really hasn't changed over three decades.

It is a bit of an contradiction now a-days with the current 18 month technological revolution cycles to anticipate holding onto a piece of digital kit for longer than a couple years, but hopefully we have done our job and created a solid foundation to bring back some of that investment longevity with the DSMC family.

Who really knows though.. There is nothing permanent except change. :)
 
This is an interesting thread to read how some of you are dealing with the old and new business models of dealing with amortization and rejuvenation/upgrade.

The modular foundation is really something that we just touched on with the RED ONE ( upgradable sensor, media modules and mounts, ) and have taken to a whole new level with the DSMC cameras, I think will be interesting to watch over the next couple years how this plays into everyone's accounting.

If there are any Medium Format guys here you can see how the Mamiya RZ67 has lived a very long life, and is still used extensively in the fashion world, mostly due to the fact that it was developed almost 30 years ago to be somewhat modular.. even today almost every digital back company still makes an adapter to keep that camera in service with the newest technology.... on a body that really hasn't changed over three decades.

It is a bit of an contradiction now a-days with the current 18 month technological revolution cycles to anticipate holding onto a piece of digital kit for longer than a couple years, but hopefully we have done our job and created a solid foundation to bring back some of that investment longevity with the DSMC family.

Who really knows though.. There is nothing permanent except change. :)

As I wrote long ago RED1 has a perfect body.

I would just need always a new sensor upgrade the same as Mamiya RZ67 can have a brand new digital back.

Also I'm say it again because I have got a perfect mount for the most of new sensor upgrade sizes (unfortunately it is still in a pirate stage).
 
As I wrote long ago RED1 has a perfect body.
Totally disagree. Looking forward to DSMC's big time. No nostalgia about the RED1's wonky physical form.

This is not to be confused with my total enthusiasm for the images that you can make with it. I love the sensor, PL lenses, and redcode. They all rock. those will be in the DSMC, updated, with a better designed body - whats not to like about that ?

Matt Uhry
www.mattuhry.com
 
No nostalgia about the RED1's wonky physical form.

www.mattuhry.com

Love it or Hate it, we are very proud of RED1 and what it has accomplished. It is by all means not perfect, but IMHO It really isn't as bad as some people make it out to be.. to each his own though.
 
Love it or Hate it, we are very proud of RED1 and what it has accomplished. It is by all means not perfect, but IMHO It really isn't as bad as some people make it out to be.. to each his own though.
“A man who uses his hands is a laborer. One who uses his hands and mind is a craftsman. He who uses his hands, and his mind, and his heart is an artist.”
 
ho hum..here we go. If you read the subject line "trade in Epic-X for Epic FF35" it suggests buying an Epic FF35 after the Epic X.
What will it cost to have an Epic X for the 4-5months until the Epic FF35 is available ...>$20,000?
That's $4,000 - $5,000 per month!!...something to think about!
So the thread is intended to weigh up business case/ROI scenarios in your particular business...not some twitter about gifts/sony cameras.
Dave,

Just seemed to be a lot of whining in the thread over thousands of dollars... NOT TENS OF THOUSANDS =

I don't understand your point frankly, but to me, the point of modularity is to be able to keep your acks and simply swap out brains.

YES, RED confirmed you can use RED ONE Acks with EPIC/SCARLETT.

But with modularity, we plan on having one of EVERY Brain and 2 EPIC Systems.

Plus 2 Scarlett Systems 1 S35 and 1 Fixed. I see no point in going Scarlett F35 as for the money differences versus performance gains of the PRO SERIES EPIC. I dont get it.

I think many who believe the insane rental rates that were had for RED ONE
will return on Epic are mistaken, as RED has also grown infrastructure, learned a ton and will ship faster.

With the exception of Mark P who has 6 and 7 and will obviously have some lead time... Id say that for the first 50 to 100 and hopefully the first 105 :)

Not to mention films and TV shows are being shot successfully on RED ONE
and making money... so the extra 2 stops may be awesome for guys like you and David Mullen etc, but to guys like me...

Im more worried about having a great story to match the technology capturing it... much much more.

best
 
I see no point in going Scarlett F35 as for the money differences versus performance gains of the PRO SERIES EPIC. I dont get it.
the majority majority majority coming from the convergence dont get your mind.
 
horses for courses...

back to the thread title.

David, do you believe shooting S35 (cropped sensor) with the FF35 and S35 glass will be superior to just shooting S35 with the S35 brain?

I thought I read there were going to be limitations to that... ones that exceed any DR gains?

Because, if indeed, that S35 cropped on a monstro will be superior to S35 full sensor,
then I think Epic resale value will suffer for sure.

As this means essentially one would be getting two great cameras for the price of one with FF35... i.e one that takes both S35 and FF35 glass...and works better than having separate brains.
 
do you believe shooting S35 (cropped sensor) with the FF35 and S35 glass will be superior to just shooting S35 with the S35 brain?

I thought I read there were going to be limitations to that... ones that exceed any DR gains?
Well, as far as I see it, the only downside to shooting S35 on the FF Epic vs the S35 Epic is resolution - on the S35 you get a resolution of ~4.5K (for an actual S35-sized portion of the sensor) or 5K (for X35 or whatever we're now calling the Red "S35" chip size) vs 4K and ~4.4K respectively on the FF Epic.

In compensation for that resolution loss you get around 2 stops more DR and higher framerate capability.

I would suggest that unless you are finishing in 4K there is no contest - the extra latitude and (presumably) lower noise of the FF system will win out over the extra resolution for 2K and HD finishes without a doubt.

What will be interesting to see is whether when finishing at 4K the extra resolution for a "true" 4K frame (which assuming similar stats to the Red One's bayer detail when measured will need a 5K originating resolution) will outweigh the other visual factors of the FF system...

In part the answer to that will be subject and budget dependent - if you've got the budget and/or time and/or opportunity to keep the contrast ratio within the lower dynamic range of the M-X chips, then you might well favour the S35 camera for 4K finishes. If, however, you are exceeding the range of the sensor (or stretching it close to it's limits) on a significant amount of setups, then I'm guessing the FF's higher DR will outweigh the slight lack of post-debayer resolution.

That's my thinking, at least. Me? I'm holding out for the FF Epic...

Dom.
 
My prediction is a large price drop on the FF35 brain. $33k/$9750 for just the brain? Yeah, I don't see that holding for long (maybe still on release, but just watch).

When Canon releases a FF RAW 24fps that doesnt line skip for <$3k, I'm betting Red will have to fight the price wars. They can take the Apple approach of "we're better so you can pay more", but they can't be 400%->1000% more.

But we'll see, i'm just the bird on Jim's shoulder saying "make it cheaper Jim!" :-)
 
My prediction is a large price drop on the FF35 brain. $33k/$9750 for just the brain? Yeah, I don't see that holding for long (maybe still on release, but just watch).

When Canon releases a FF RAW 24fps that doesnt line skip for <$3k, I'm betting Red will have to fight the price wars. They can take the Apple approach of "we're better so you can pay more", but they can't be 400%->1000% more.

But we'll see, i'm just the bird on Jim's shoulder saying "make it cheaper Jim!" :-)

Hi Shawn,

I think Canon will have an economy of scale advantage over Red. Remember Red is giving a credit of $17,500 so that has to be factored into the Epic price structure, Scarlet only has a small allowance built in to the price.

Stephen
 
My prediction is a large price drop on the FF35 brain. $33k/$9750 for just the brain? Yeah, I don't see that holding for long (maybe still on release, but just watch).

When Canon releases a FF RAW 24fps that doesnt line skip for <$3k, I'm betting Red will have to fight the price wars. They can take the Apple approach of "we're better so you can pay more", but they can't be 400%->1000% more.

But we'll see, i'm just the bird on Jim's shoulder saying "make it cheaper Jim!" :-)

=Good point, but Im thinking the caveat "doesnt line skip" could be a bigger hurdle than we know. And I remember Jim saying (trying to find the thread) that nobody was as close to RED in compression tech and FPS... thats obviously a HUGE difference and cost. Not to mention cooling systems...
the latter is what has my interest as shooting 250 FPS is going to generate some incredible heat issues.

I am now wishing their was a trade in allowance on the FF35 EPIC
 
Back
Top