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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Torn on new Editing system

P

Peter Cote

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I'm really torn on what to do for a new editing system. I don't want to go with a Mac Pro because the current generation is so outdated. I have been tempted to wait for the next generation but fear that it has been discontinued. I don't want to go PC so that only leaves an iMac. I have a current generation iMac with maxed out specs. It's great for 2K but it leaves something to be desired for 4K workflows.

Depending on how things pan out I may need to get a new system as early as a couple weeks from now, but can't see myself waiting any longer than late February. Obviously as Thunderbolt devices slowly creep into the market, it opens up potential for more power in an iMac but that's a ways off.

What are your thoughts?
 
To me the writing is on the wall regarding the next Macs.

I have 5 of them in the house, but my next edit platform will be a maxxed-out PC.

I know of a LOT of other post houses in the area doing the same.
 
I know that more and more people are going PC but I still have to deliver in ProRes so much of the time that I can't make the switch anytime soon.
 
I'm a big PC advocate when it comes to working with graphics in general.

5 things that everybody should have in mind when building a system:
1. Ram - More ram = more RCP buffering and better playback. Fast ram is a big plus too.
2. Storage Space - It's pretty easy to fill up 1TB with R3D material. Fast drives are a plus. If you've got cash SSDs are nice.
3. CPU - Transcoding? Encoding? Bigger, faster CPUs will help. Red Rocket Cards help even more.
4. Adobe Premiere Pro - Native R3D workflow. Do that. There really isn't a better/easier way to do this. (yet)
5. nVidia Graphics Card - Any card with Cuda support that can work with Adobe's Mercury Playback Engine.


Effective systems can be 9-24GB of ram. Any I7 processor with 3+ GHz will do. $1500-$3000 is easily possible these days.
 
Peter Cote said:
I know that more and more people are going PC but I still have to deliver in ProRes so much of the time that I can't make the switch anytime soon.
Click to expand...

Is Avid DNxHD an option for your clients? I hear whispers of ProRes encoding coming to Windows in the near future too.
 
Im loosing faith in the MAC world (I have 6macs). They don't seem to want to support there Pro users.

2012 is when Apple's hold on thunderbolt is lifted and that PC's are allowed to incorporate.
Offline Storage i'd look at Drobo's. I have one and love it. great for storage. Not good for scratch disk.
Online, i'd look into a raided SSD scratch drive for your editing. Once done move to the Drobo.
 
You can use FFmpeg to encode ProRes on Windows or Linux.

Barry Bishop said:
2012 is when Apple's hold on thunderbolt is lifted and that PC's are allowed to incorporate.
Click to expand...

Apple has no hold on Thunderbolt. It is just that no one outside of Apple and Sony have been interested in Thunderbolt so far - USB 3.0 has already become the industry standard outside of the Apple walled garden. While Thunderbolt is a more elegant alternative, Thunderbolt controllers and licensing from Intel simply cost several times that of USB 3.0, and USB 3.0's bandwidth is considered more than adequate for almost all usage. Sony Vaio Z makes excellent use of Thunderbolt for the Power Media Dock though. That said, neither Thunderbolt nor USB 3.0 feature enough bandwidth to power anything more than entry-level/mid-range GPUs. April 2012 is when some Intel motherboards will start featuring Thunderbolt controllers built in, as well as add-on Thunderbolt controllers. I would certainly love to see Thunderbolt go mainstream - but Intel has to drop prices by a lot and preferably make it an open standard like USB 3.0.
 
I think Phil is right Peter. I currently own a maxed out Imac. Even though I think that thunderbolt will bring some advantages I dont think that the I mac will be enough for the Scarlet or Epic workflow. To be fair it eats through HD footage but its nowhere near as intensive as a Raw workflow. Remember also that with the Imac you cannot take advantage of the Cuda graphics cards. Maybe with thunderbolt in the future you might. But not for a while I suppose. We are going to build a new system based on Jeff guidelines. New generation I7 and good video cards. Only be carefuly about the card placement if you are going to use it as a sole system. He said its superfast and is working comfortably in 4k. Personally only Davinci was holding me to Mac. Now not anymore.
 
Phil Holland said:
Is Avid DNxHD an option for your clients? I hear whispers of ProRes encoding coming to Windows in the near future too.
Click to expand...

No they are very specific about their deliveries. If anything is slightly off they come back and ask for it again. Do you have a source for these whispers? I'd be more interested if PreRes encoding was coming to Windows.

Im loosing faith in the MAC world (I have 6macs). They don't seem to want to support there Pro users.

2012 is when Apple's hold on thunderbolt is lifted and that PC's are allowed to incorporate.
Offline Storage i'd look at Drobo's. I have one and love it. great for storage. Not good for scratch disk.
Online, i'd look into a raided SSD scratch drive for your editing. Once done move to the Drobo.
Click to expand...

Barry storage is not really my concern here.
 
It seems to me that buying right now would be shooting yourself in the foot. If you don't want to go PC, your best bet is to wait it out until mid-year to see what's actually going to happen (in regards to MacPro updates, better NLE .r3d support, CS6, etc.) No point buying when, by that time (in 4 to 6mths) you'll know more or less for sure what the right purchase decision is.
 
If you need it now, buy the Mac that works now. If you can wait, wait.We all worry too much about this sort of decision. In two years it'll be outdated no matter what you do, but you will have earned some money in the mean time.
 
Mike P. said:
It seems to me that buying right now would be shooting yourself in the foot. If you don't want to go PC, your best bet is to wait it out until mid-year to see what's actually going to happen (in regards to MacPro updates, better NLE .r3d support, CS6, etc.) No point buying when, by that time (in 4 to 6mths) you'll know more or less for sure what the right purchase decision is.
Click to expand...

I may not have a choice in the matter. I need to scale to the needs of the company. Lots of projects coming in, not enough systems to handle it all.
 
Peter Cote said:
I may not have a choice in the matter. I need to scale to the needs of the company. Lots of projects coming in, not enough systems to handle it all.
Click to expand...

Yeah, I thought of that right after I posted. In that case, if it were me, I'd get the most inexpensive system(s) that could get the job(s) done, knowing that they may not be primary systems for more than a year. To me, it sounds like MacPros are just too expensive to warrant the additional cost (you could get two iMacs for the price of one).

If you're willing to work around some sticking issues, what about getting somewhatbeefy Macbook Pros to hold you over? That way you could get people to edit/post on the MBPs, then send the projects to bigger desktop systems for rendering... plus, I mean, you can never have too many MBP and they tend to have a better resale value.
 
Peter Cote said:
I have a current generation iMac with maxed out specs. It's great for 2K but it leaves something to be desired for 4K workflows.
Click to expand...

Editing in 4K? Nobody NEEDS to edit in 4K and there is no reason to even edit in 2K. I think you confusing editing with finishing.
 
As a company that has had to scale, but wary ofover investing, we have had great luck investing in second hand Mac Pros, either as outright purchases or Hire Purchases. The body design is rugged and the componentry reliable, and generally there are people outside of the production world who have brought them as the latest Apple product when needing to upgrade, who then refresh them for the next latest apple thing without ever really squeezing any life out of them. Fill them with OWC RAM and New Hard Drives etc and the only cost issue you face is not having access to the most capable graphics card at the best price.

If you are already invested in multiple Macs but don't know whic way to jump, I'd look for a deal on a second hand Mac Pro first and foremost, guess it depends on your market as to how likely you are to get one. If it was a PC or an iMac or a Laptop I'd never recommend second hand purchases for business reasons, but Mac Pros are such work horses in my experience and the 8 core models generally offer all the power you need for most tasks, unless you are doing REALLY graphic and gpu intensive stuff in which case you should be looking at a PC probably anyway as a stand alone suite 3D etc)

The thing being here as well, if the new Mac Pros are more then 5 months away, or simply don't excite, the extra machine also acts as redundancy for your existing suites more than a PC would, because you and your operators can more easily switch from one Mac to another in the same environment than from Mac to PC. Although that's less of the hassle it once was.
 
I'm holding off until after CES next week. There might be some new product announcements. http://www.cesweb.org/
(Hoping for Liquid-Cooled workstation cards!)
 
Peter Cote said:
I'm really torn on what to do for a new editing system. I don't want to go with a Mac Pro because the current generation is so outdated. I have been tempted to wait for the next generation but fear that it has been discontinued. I don't want to go PC so that only leaves an iMac. I have a current generation iMac with maxed out specs. It's great for 2K but it leaves something to be desired for 4K workflows.

Depending on how things pan out I may need to get a new system as early as a couple weeks from now, but can't see myself waiting any longer than late February. Obviously as Thunderbolt devices slowly creep into the market, it opens up potential for more power in an iMac but that's a ways off.

What are your thoughts?
Click to expand...

Everything I've read points to discontinuation OR new mac pro in April/May timeframe with new Intel Ivy bridge CPU
and the new AMD radeon 7970 card which is awfully powerful with 4K output.
 
N.D. Paolo said:
Everything I've read points to discontinuation OR new mac pro in April/May timeframe with new Intel Ivy bridge CPU
and the new AMD radeon 7970 card which is awfully powerful with 4K output.
Click to expand...

As good as the 7970 is, it does not support CUDA - which is essential for software like Premiere Pro CS5.5 or Davinci Resolve. On the other hand, for software that feature extensive OpenCL acceleration, like Vegas Pro, HD 7970 is the new benchmark.
 
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