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TOKINA 11-16mm vs. Duclos Cine Mods

G

Gary Britton

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​Hi everyone,

Forgive my ignorance... But,
I was wondering, if we can use the regular Tokina 11-16mm lens on Red cameras or does it HAVE to be the modified version made by Duclos?
I notices many many Red users have one, but was wondering WHICH ONE you all are using?
THANKS!
 
you can use the regular version, however - the duclos version can modify the mount to PL, but the real deal is reworking all the innards for better performance. you can check his site for all the benefits.
 
Thanks for the reply!

Right... I've see the site,
I have a Canon mount anyway, but, was wondering the REAL distinct advantages to pay over five times the price for the Duclos lens.
doesnt really seem that big a difference to me. (?)
 
depends on what you're using it for...

for me, i'm just fine with the original as of now. if you're used to canon still glass, it'll likely do you just fine - but definitely try it out first.
 
This has been pretty well covered on this site.

A) The Duclos version is hand selected glass. He makes sure that what he's "modding" is THE BEST.

-->As many people have noted on these boards, when you are buying mass produced glass (Canon, Tokina, Sigma, Nikon, whatever)...the production standards are not as excruciating as with a $20k Master Prime. Some are sharp, some aren't depending on the batch. Matthew Duclos makes sure his copies are RAZOR.



B) The Duclos version has total CINEMA MECHANICS.

--> this means it has a REAL APERTURE RING, it focuses the right way, has an 80mm front, a FOCUS RING, and is even PL mounted.



Point is....he's ripped this entire thing apart and remade it into a real PL zoom. That's why it costs 5x more, because it takes him a long time to do this. There are very large benefits.


That being said, "optically" if you get a real sharp copy of the Tokina, it should behave similarly, yes.
 
Gary-
In other words, if you find a razor sharp Tokina, the optics will be exactly the same. The pricetag comes from the PL mount conversion mostly, although the rebuilt focus/aperture rings are an added benefit in order to make it to "cine standards."

If you have the canon mount and dont feel the need to have the built in focus/aperture rings (you can always put your own focus rings to adapt to FF), then save the cash and go for the regular Tokina. When you actually NEED to have the cinevised version from Duclos, just upgrade then.
 
Yousuf Abbasi said:
Gary-
In other words, if you find a razor sharp Tokina, the optics will be exactly the same. The pricetag comes from the PL mount conversion mostly, although the rebuilt focus/aperture rings are an added benefit in order to make it to "cine standards."

If you have the canon mount and dont feel the need to have the built in focus/aperture rings (you can always put your own focus rings to adapt to FF), then save the cash and go for the regular Tokina. When you actually NEED to have the cinevised version from Duclos, just upgrade then.
Click to expand...

Hey Yousuf, I completely agree with you....

And I know the Duclos 11-16 is much more expensive...but you certainly get what you pay for.

The man works hard for his money!
 
Thanks Yousuf, Nick and Paul for your advice.
I appreciate it.
 
I agree with Tom, you might get lucky. I own two of the Canon mount versions (used for simultaneous timelapse on DSLRs), and have also used them on my Scarlet. There is a difference between my two - one is softer at the corners at closer to widest zoom range, like between maybe 13mm and 11mm, and is especially noticeable wide open if there is anything close in the foreground. I can definitely agree that they vary from batch to batch. The good one is great, very sharp corner to corner between f4 and f8. I haven't ever used it on the Scarlet stopped down more than f8, so am not sure what it would do, but as with most DSLR lenses they start to lose sharpness beyond 11 or 16 for sure. I've been on the waitlist for a duclos for a few months - for the real benefit of being able to pull focus with a real barrel. Don't expect to be able to pull focus (on the Canon mount version) with moving humans if they're really close to camera and you're at 2.8, the throw is painfully short. But for the money, you cant go wrong with the Canon mount version IF you get a good one. Not like there's a lot of critical focus issues at 11mm anyway! My 2 cents...
 
maybe dumb question : on a scarlet the tokina 11-16mm CANON (made for 35mm photography ) is the equivalent of what in normal PL world ?

i am used to rent an 18mm PL (zeiss ) , is the tokina 11-16mm CANON on scarlet wider than that 18mm ?

what is the crop ratio between full frame 35mm and scarlet sensor ( so i can calculate the focal length of canon glasses on scarlet)

thanks
g
 
Gabriele Turchi said:
maybe dumb question : on a scarlet the tokina 11-16mm CANON (made for 35mm photography ) is the equivalent of what in normal PL world ?

i am used to rent an 18mm PL (zeiss ) , is the tokina 11-16mm CANON on scarlet wider than that 18mm ?

what is the crop ratio between full frame 35mm and scarlet sensor ( so i can calculate the focal length of canon glasses on scarlet)


thanks
g
Click to expand...

Simple answer: the focal length of a lens never changes. An 18mm will always be an 18mm, a 50mm will always be a 50mm. 11-16 is wider than 18mm no matter what camera it is on.
 
well maybe i have explained myself not correctly :

for example using a 50mm canon on a 5D is not the same of using it on a 7D (the crop ratio is 1.6 (i think ) , so a 50mm on a 5D became an 80mm on a 7D...

so i am wondering how looks like for example a 50mm canon lens on a scarlet (since i think the sensor is smaller than a 5D ...)

thanks

g
 
Gabriele Turchi said:
well maybe i have explained myself not correctly :

for example using a 50mm canon on a 5D is not the same of using it on a 7D (the crop ratio is 1.6 (i think ) , so a 50mm on a 5D became an 80mm on a 7D...

so i am wondering how looks like for example a 50mm canon lens on a scarlet (since i think the sensor is smaller than a 5D ...)

thanks

g
Click to expand...

its about FOV not focal lenght
 
ops , i am sorry i messed up the name ..

so does anyone know the crop factor ratio (if there is any ) between canon lenses FOV and Scarlet (off course scarlet @ 4K (which is not even the full frame )

thanks

g
 
thanks shane

that helped a lot

looks like that scarlet @ 4K (not listed there but i have used RED ONE ) the crop ratio VS 5D is 1.6 ... so a canon 50mm should be an 80mm...

thanks

g
 
Just my opinion...

A RED with an electronic Eos mount and a stock Tokina 11-16mm will play nice together using the motors in the lens to drive the focus and aperture.
If you don't mind the flaws associated with auto-focus still lenses for cinema then there is no reason to spend the extra dough for the Duclos 11-16mm.
If you're looking for a more reliable (PL) mount and want a fully manual lens with a more robust housing, then the Duclos version is likely your weapon of choice.
There are a slew of other improvements that are applied to our converted lens but it really boils down to what your needs are.
The stock Tokina is a mere $700 at most retailers. Buy it, try it, see if the inherent flaws are going to be a problem for your type of shooting and decide then.
I would never say that our 11-16mm conversion is hands-down better. It simply depends on the application and how it's being used.
I wouldn't want to use a Duclos 11-16mm to milk a cow. And I simply wouldn't want to use a stock Tokina 11-16mm to shoot high-end motion pictures.
 
+1 on what Matthew said. I've been fortunate enough to see a side by side between the Duclos and stock 11-16mm at Duclos. If you are doing work that will see a big screen you will notice the difference for sure. Especially when it comes to image shift.
 
Just tried today for the first time a tokina 11-16 on a scarlet in 4K , i am noticing that at wide aperture 11mm i have grand part of the right side of the image slightly out of focus (like if the lens focus is not consistent )

is it normal for the tokina 11-16 mm , i have to say that i noticed that even when i was testing on canon 60D @ B&H before buy (on the demo unit )

also that lens on scarlet looks quite soft @ anything below F8 (tried a building @ infinite focus from my rooftop ) ... do you think that backfocus might be required and help for that ?

thanks a lot

g
 
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