TOIA - RED MX Latitude test 2 - HI CONTRAST

[Francesco Bonomo]

I'm in London shooting at the moment and once again all I here about is ARRI ARRI ARRI, The big hire joints are just pushing it hard... why? I don't know why.

I cannot speak for London, but I can tell you at least one reason Alexa has become so successful here in Rome (and elsewhere in Italy), and this comes from a die-hard film lover: because, other than it being able to capture great looking images (just as good as Red One for most markets), and having a post workflow that's at least perceived as being easier, it's gotten LOTS of good publicity from camera assistants, and not "just because it's an Arri". Somehow, a lot of people feel immediately familiar with it, because it reminds most of ACs of cameras they've been using for years. So, unless there's a DP (or producer, director, client) who really wants to shoot on Red, when they realize they can get great looking images from both system but one feels more familiar, they go with that one. I'm not saying it's the #1 reason, but it has its influence, at least from what I've seen around here (and let's just say this is not a very digital-friendly place, at least for now).

 

[Roberto Lequeux]

That is a great 45 second grade Mark. I would love to see an all out grade.

Though there is one thing I bet you won't be able to fix, the BG stopping and turning around in the shot on this take.

Please let us know where we can see the final product and thanks for posting.

 

[Michael Hardwick]

Great example Mark.

Can you explain the benefit gained by grading using Camera RGB as your colorspace as opposed to using RedColor2?

 

[luigivaltulini]

WOWO Mark,
thanks again for your posting.:w00t:

 

[Mark Toia]

Great example Mark.

Can you explain the benefit gained by grading using Camera RGB as your colorspace as opposed to using RedColor2?

For some reason I like working from the Camera RGB setting, RED GAMMA2 is great, it's just a phase im going through. I'll probably go RED GAMMA2 after a few more tests.

That is a great 45 second grade Mark. I would love to see an all out grade.

Though there is one thing I bet you won't be able to fix, the BG stopping and turning around in the shot on this take.

Please let us know where we can see the final product and thanks for posting.

hahhahaha... yeah good old BG... this shot was not a shot we will use, it's only a quick camera on off.

I cannot speak for London, but I can tell you at least one reason Alexa has become so successful here in Rome (and elsewhere in Italy), and this comes from a die-hard film lover: because, other than it being able to capture great looking images (just as good as Red One for most markets), and having a post workflow that's at least perceived as being easier, it's gotten LOTS of good publicity from camera assistants, and not "just because it's an Arri". Somehow, a lot of people feel immediately familiar with it, because it reminds most of ACs of cameras they've been using for years. So, unless there's a DP (or producer, director, client) who really wants to shoot on Red, when they realize they can get great looking images from both system but one feels more familiar, they go with that one. I'm not saying it's the #1 reason, but it has its influence, at least from what I've seen around here (and let's just say this is not a very digital-friendly place, at least for now).

Yes, I think your right, ARRI has a great name, camera depts love it and push it, RENTAL companies push it hard, Post houses like it because it's simple and stress free, The PRO RES LOG C function is most certainly a huge huge plus for it as it's a super easy work flow with no transcoding necessary unless you use the ARRI RAW files. And hence hardly anyone does.

If you did a pros and cons list, the RED will will win the bang for buck award, the power in size award, the most resolution award etc etc etc ... except for simplicity, quick playable, quick grade-able, PRO RES files that wins people over because the work flow becomes instantly easier. People are naturally lazy, so Arri are profiting greatly on that point. (and rightly so)

It's great that RED think of the hi end movie guys needs, but it maybe time they also think about the lazy PRO RES user as well. There is way way more small screen people out there than there is the hi end movie guys... Arri have acknowledged this and hence why are really strong in the rental markets.

Once again I think that's why ARRI is pushing RED to the side in TV commercial market. Turn around time, speed and ease is all anyone wants in that world. (As well as great images)

I'd so love if RED spat out REDLOGFILM - REDGAMMA2 PRORES files and RAW R3D's at the same time on one SSD card, no module required. That would most certainly turn the EPIC into my dream camera.

 

[robert browning]

Well done, Sir. I have to say that you have continually displayed for us the amazing latitude of working with RAW files. I can't wait to see what you can do with HDRX. Thank you for your generosity.

 

[Jason Diamond]

Nice test! For a quick grade you really got everything out of that image. Regardless of what may be clipped it's clearly a good "test" example of how to understand whats "in there".
Of course everyone prefers perfectly exposed shots and thats the goal but it's always good know you have a mild safety net when that's not the case.

and now with HDR-X that safety net just turned into a safety tent...

Jason

 

[Vico Martin]

Congrats Mark!, stunning results.

 

[M Most]

Looking at your previous posts on this forum, you seem to be a very argumentative over opinionated soul. So I'll not continue this debate with you as I think it's non productive and you just really enjoy an augment than a realistic chit chat.

Have a nice day.

I guess not saying anything other than "wonderful," "amazing," unbelievable," incredible," and "wow" qualifies as argumentative and/or over opinionated. Sorry if I don't fit your criteria of a worthwhile human being to have a conversation with.

I don't enjoy arguments, I enjoy an exchange of ideas, as long as there are some actual facts involved. Anything else is just opinion, and everyone is entitled to have one. My having a different one than you doesn't make mine any more valid or yours any less valid. It just means that my working circumstances and situations are different than yours, something I tried to make clear when I said "in my world." If you don't want to talk to me, fine. But I think it's valuable to sometimes hear other opinions because it's how we learn. At least it's how I learn. I didn't dismiss you as someone not worthy of having a conversation with. I really don't appreciate being treated that way in return, but, hey, whatever....

On the other hand, you live in Brisbane, one of my favorite places on the planet, so you can't be all bad... ;-D

 

[Erich Ocean]

If I punched this out a PRO RES 4444 file tha same as the Alexia, there was no way I was going to get the same result. 10bit vs RAW 16bit...

Not to be a dick, but ProRes 4444 is 12-bit, and 12-bit log has more range in the high-end than 16-bit linear (but less precision where the two overlap). 16-bit float (aka half) is also an exponential format and is pretty sweet (and is what's used in OpenEXR). IMO, exponential formats are preferable to linear formats when < 16 bits are available; they make better use of the available bits.

Also, one other quibble, only the Epic is 16-bit RAW, an MX in the Red One is still 12-bit RAW IIRC (someone please correct me here).

Still, nice work showing what kind of latitude the camera has.

 

[Jannard]

Mike... you know that I like you. In person you package your thoughts different than on this forum. It does seem like you enjoy a good controversy here. Funny but I remember you using the term "amazing" when talking about EPIC in Stage 7.

Jim

I guess not saying anything other than "wonderful," "amazing," unbelievable," incredible," and "wow" qualifies as argumentative and/or over opinionated. Sorry if I don't fit your criteria of a worthwhile human being to have a conversation with.

I don't enjoy arguments, I enjoy an exchange of ideas, as long as there are some actual facts involved. Anything else is just opinion, and everyone is entitled to have one. My having a different one than you doesn't make mine any more valid or yours any less valid. It just means that my working circumstances and situations are different than yours, something I tried to make clear when I said "in my world." If you don't want to talk to me, fine. But I think it's valuable to sometimes hear other opinions because it's how we learn. At least it's how I learn. I didn't dismiss you as someone not worthy of having a conversation with. I really don't appreciate being treated that way in return, but, hey, whatever....

On the other hand, you live in Brisbane, one of my favorite places on the planet, so you can't be all bad... ;-D

 

[Jannard]

REDlog is now a monitoring option on EPIC and soon on the RED ONE... or did Deanan already say this?

Jim

 

[Brigham Edgar]

Great stuff Mark, your a good man to have locally here in Brisbane also pushing RED and helping to stop these many many people here mistreating RED footage and what it can do. It's a hell of a battle and just way too many that just don't know. The more of these examples laid simple and bare the better in my books!

 

[Brigham Edgar]

REDlog is now a monitoring option on EPIC and soon on the RED ONE... or did Deanan already say this?

Jim

Great news...this will help a lot that just don't know the maths and capabilities. I stood in one of Australia's leading rental companies and a very good AC the day they received their Alexa and had my R1MX sitting side by side shooting a very rough shot out the door from a video tap and all i heard was oooo aahhh...see how much more DR the Alexa has! I explained this was a ridiculous way to come to a conclusion and so incredibly flawed but felt i was dismissed as just a RED fanboy...frustrating is just the start of it.

 

[jimhare]

Mark, Fantastic as always! Let me know if you ever do a master class in image processing, would happily come to Brisbane for the day to attend!

 

[AnthonyFlores]

To Mark T ... "wonderful," "amazing," unbelievable," incredible," and "wow" is all I have to say

 

[Timothy Eaton]

Looking at your previous posts on this forum, you seem to be a very argumentative over opinionated soul. So I'll not continue this debate with you as I think it's non productive and you just really enjoy an augment than a realistic chit chat.

Have a nice day.

I've noticed the same thing Mark. Most guys posting on this list are gracious and good natured. You always seem upbeat and willing to share what you have learned about RED in a spirit of good will. A few, however, seem more interested in being "right," or establishing their creds by taking not so subtle swipes at the work or credentials of others. I've seen your stuff online. It's very nice work and you don't need any lectures about what is professional. I welcome different points of view here, but some guys know how to do it, and others just have "tude."

Keep it up mate - good stuff.

Tim Eaton

 

[Nathan VanderByl]

Ok... wow! Even though I was already expecting quite a lot of detail to come back in the sky area, what you were able to pull out of that RAW file was amazing!

 

[Nathan VanderByl]

Great stuff Mark, your a good man to have locally here in Brisbane also pushing RED and helping to stop these many many people here mistreating RED footage and what it can do.

Seconded. Mark, when you're back in town I'd love to shout you a beer one day and just pick your brain!

 

[Shane Betts]

REDlog is now a monitoring option on EPIC and soon on the RED ONE... or did Deanan already say this?

Jim

Fantastic! That's a great step forward IMHO. Now the video tap comparisons we're all sick of might start to mean something, people on set can actually see what the image might have in it, people might stop complaining about how the onset image doesn't look as good as the graded image (WTF?) and, best of all, with the addition of a KiPro or Ninja, we can deliver Log ProRes files to post all still cheaper and lighter than Alexa. One wall at a time...