To scarlet or not to scarlet?

[Harry Ayiotis]

Hello,

I just wanted to ask whether it's a good time to get a scarlet, now that the dragon is coming out? What would be the best course of action? Get a scarlet and upgrade it to dragon, or just wait until and if they release a scarlet dragon?

Thank you.

 

[Brett Harrison]

if waiting is an option for you I would wait, because it will get cheaper as time goes on. The biggest consideration is if you're able to recoup the value of the camera. If you can't do that with an MX sensor now, you may not be able to do it with a Dragon sensor later. It's a reasonable assumption that RED will sell Dragon Scarlets but they haven't given any indication that they will.

 

[Brian Merlen]

To-morrow, and to-morrow, and to-morrow,
Creeps in this petty pace from day to day,
To the last syllable of recorded time;
And all our yesterdays have lighted fools
The way to dusty death. Out, out, brief candle!
Life's but a walking shadow, a poor player,
That struts and frets his hour upon the stage,
And then is heard no more. It is a tale
Told by an idiot, full of sound and fury,
Signifying nothing.

Wait what was the question? aren't we just quoting shakepear? insert random emicon here: :emote_couch:

I'd wait if I could, I just traded my brain in for an Epic and I bet they will sell BT Scarlets at some point at very affordable prices. Or you can maybe get a deal on a Dragon Scarlet if they come out with it as such a product without needing to upgrade an MX to get it.

 

[David Kellermann]

If you need a good 4k camera now, but can't spend much, get a RED one MX. Slightly more funds... get a Scarlet, especially if you need the cam for aerial photography. If you can wait, get a BMC 4k later this year or (nothing stated by RED yet, but highly likely) get a RED Scarlet Dragon or RED Scarlet MX Battle Tested in spring 2014.

If 1080p is enough (yes, there are situations where 4k is not necessary), get a Blackmagic Pocket. Footage looks nice, the recording media is cheap, so why not. For 1000USD, it's a no brainer. Just one issue... I hate the BM CC for its terrible rolling shutter. No idea how strong it will be on the Pocket cam.

Oh and one more option... the DigitalBolex looks like a fun camera, and it has a CCD sensor (global shutter). Especially if you do a lot of hand held stuff, a global shutter can save the day! And there are many nice 16mm lenses our there that nobody wants, since all the new cameras have a S35 (or even larger) sensor.

 

[Mike P.]

Yeah, with all the Scarlets-Xs RED is going to end up with, they'll be at rock bottom prices as BTs (they likely won't be upgradeable though, but I wouldn't be surprised if they're $4k with SSD and mount like the BT R1MXs were... maybe cheaper, since the R1mxs were $25k retail up until the $4k BTs (and think of how much cheaper personally sold used ones without warranty will be - $2.5-3.5k?)... Granted that'll likely be spring (maybe fall) 2014 after the Dragon upgrades are smoothed out. Conversely, if they do offer a Scarlet-Dragon straight-up, it could be significantly cheaper than going the upgrade route (especially a year from now).

On the filp side, if you've got a gig that requires 4k/raw, and whose camera rental budget would approach the cost of the Scarlet (~$10k), then yeah go for it (but something tells me those gigs are few and far between these days, and any production with that kind of cash would be going Alexa/Epic/F65).

 

[Gavin Greenwalt]

If you can wait 6 months for Dragon get an Epic Dragon. You're going to be spending $20k on accessories anyway. $ for $ you end up with way more camera if you don't take the upgrade route and just buy a Dragon. You also get way more for your money with Epic than Scarlet. I got a job last week that I wouldn't have gotten with Scarlet's 4k but the Epic's overcrank came through. That paid for half the price difference in that one job.

 

[Dr. Sassi]

There is always something on the horizon.



There are two reasons to buy now:

- you want to get really savvy with the camera and workflow

- you have a project that needs it

Perhaps #3 -- You are in the renting business, and could earn money -- now.





Waiting for the Dragon...

I have not seen anything that suggest that there will be a Scarlet Dragon without going along the update path. Someone mentioned a 90 days waiting period for EPIC to Dragon (S->D?), but I haven't seen anything official yet. (I might miss newer information...)



What to do? Get in contact with a RED-rep, and get first hand information. Perhaps they can give you all you need for a decision. S/he might give you an estimate when a Scarlet Dragon might be available for purchase -- time wise.


My personal take on that, the earlier you get it -- the better: I was very happy to have the Scarlet to learn the workflow, get the camera to know. To be able to read the forum here and test out practically what I just read in RU. I need to do it on my own.
Since many decades I start enjoying a camera in the moment I don't have to think about the tech anymore, and when it feels more like an extension of my eyes. Muscle memory might be a better term. Each camera is a new exploration.

 

[Harry Ayiotis]

thanks for the input guys, appreciate it I am really itching in pulling the trigger on a scarlet but I am just going to have to wait and see what RED does with the dragon.

 

[Maik Müller]

As long as you're not going to buy a EPIC-M/X with Dragon you'll have to wait some time to get a Camera with Dragon-Sensor in your hands, Scarlet-Dragon will not be around for some time.

The waiting game might look smart, but RED has lowered the pain and money-loss you normally get when you upgrade, so waiting isn't that smart anymore. You loose time, time in which you can start shooting, maybe make money with it.

Scarlet is a great basis, you can upgrade to EPIC-X, to Scarlet-Dragon and even to EPIC-Dragon, all the accessories will work too.

So my 2c, if you have projects upcoming, maybe jobs too, and the funds ready, if you want to get into the RED-system, then yes, get a Scarlet now.

 

[Scott Talbot]

I bought mine two months ago. I wasn't going to be making money off it. And I didn't NEED it right away. But I think there is always going to be a reason to wait. Stuff is always going to go down in price. The way I saw it... the scarlet MX is an amazing camera and will do what I need. Yes you want to get the best bang for your buck and that is smart... but all I can say is that I'm very happy.

 

[Ricky Guing Senen]

To-morrow, and to-morrow, and to-morrow,
Creeps in this petty pace from day to day,
To the last syllable of recorded time;
And all our yesterdays have lighted fools
The way to dusty death. Out, out, brief candle!
Life's but a walking shadow, a poor player,
That struts and frets his hour upon the stage,
And then is heard no more. It is a tale
Told by an idiot, full of sound and fury,
Signifying nothing.

Wait what was the question? aren't we just quoting shakepear? insert random emicon here: :emote_couch:

I'd wait if I could, I just traded my brain in for an Epic and I bet they will sell BT Scarlets at some point at very affordable prices. Or you can maybe get a deal on a Dragon Scarlet if they come out with it as such a product without needing to upgrade an MX to get it.

I like MaCbeth.

 

[Alan McConnell]

What are you going to use the camera for? Here's why I just bought a Scarlet instead of a Red One MX after careful thought:

I'm a narrative filmmaker looking to take my craft to the next level and I've decided RED is where I want to be based on value.

- I want to get in and get started with the workflow and the RED ecosystem now. I expect this camera to be cheaper in the next 6 months, but I may have moved on from RED or fallen in love and started work on my next film in that time. I'm willing to spend the extra money (which honestly isn't much, even if they offer $4k BT Scarlets+SSD, if you go used and shop smartly) to get 6 months worth of experience and find out now.
- If I do fall in love and master the workflow, I will likely eventually upgrade to Dragon. Can't do that with the R1MX. Don't want to risk not being able to upgrade BT Scarlets. A Scarlet Dragon will make (at worst) a solid B-Cam for feature film work so it feels pretty future proof.
- In the meantime the limitations of the Scarlet won't really affect the types of films I'm looking to make right now (I think, but that's part of what my experiment is for).
- If I don't fall in love I'll likely use this as a "fun" camera for shooting odds and ends. The smaller form factor makes this a better option for me than R1MX.
- I found the Scarlet to be only marginally more expensive than a R1MX, if you're patient and shop smart.

So in essence the Scarlet seemed like a good "starter RED" with the option to evolve into a true cinema-quality camera. I'm 2 pieces away from having put together a basic Scarlet that can shoot and transfer for $10.5k. That's a great value for what you get IMO. If I absolutely needed a different feature set right now I would've gone R1MX or even straight to Epic.

Hope that helps.