to own or to rent red.. what would you prefer?

[Roberto B]

just for clarify’s sake..

 

[Brook Willard]

I'd prefer to own... but I'll likely rent.

 

[Steve Gibby]

I'll own two RED cameras, and my production partner, Ken Corben, will own two, thus we have a combined four cameras. If we need more of them, we'll rent them, or potentially buy more somewhere down the road. As cost-effective as RED One is, IMO it makes great sense to own the cameras and the lenses and accessories I'll use regularly. The odd lens/accessory needed can be rented on a project-by-project basis.

 

[Alexander Nikishin]

If you plan on shooting often and or look to make a business plan out of RED, without a doubt, OWN!

 

[Alexander Nikishin]

If we need more of them, we'll rent them, or potentially buy more somewhere down the road.

Or call me. :biggrin:

 

[Steve Gibby]

Or call me. :biggrin:

LOL...could happen, you never know!

We have a D-cinema feature and five HDTV series in development for 2007-08, and we're a small operation that gets big for major projects. Good MISC1099 people who are RED-savvy will move to the top of our crew hire list.

You're already on the invited testing team for RED #8, so very soon you'll get a chance to work with us on that project...

 

[Alexander Nikishin]

Look forawrd to it Gibby.

Filmmaker, that is one odd a/b option, lol.

 

[Jonathan L. Bowen]

Own for sure. I don't believe in renting anything if possible, besides locations obviously. We plan on shooting actively almost all of the time.

What do you guys think a RED and a prime lens set (and maybe one zoom lens) would rent for per day, with a tripod included of course?

 

[Steve Gibby]

What do you guys think a RED and a prime lens set (and maybe one zoom lens) would rent for per day, with a tripod included of course?

Hard to say for sure yet. I know some rental companies have posted advance rates, but in truth, it's determined by principles of macro-economics and micro-economics.

Initially there will be a low supply/high demand scenario, which generates a relatively high price. As more cameras ship the rental market will correct itself to a moderate supply/high demand scenario, which should drop the rental rates a bit. It will take some time for it then to become a high supply/high demand scenario, thus lowering rates a bit more.

Translation = a RED package will probably rent for whatever the market will bear at the time and in the location it is rented in. The relationship and ratios of supply/demand will have a direct bearing on the current local rates.

I'm well aware of how equipment rental companies amortize out their investments to set rental rates, but IMO that paradigm will be affected to a certain extent by the significant numbers of small boutique company owners who will be renting themselves with their equipment , and in the process help set the going rate for RED One packages.

 

[Jonathan L. Bowen]

Yeah I was thinking of doing that myself. I mean my goal is to be a feature film director, and if I have to direct small projects I finance myself for $50,000 (and can make my money back) that's ok, but I think especially for the first few years, I'm going to need to supplement my income with something more every-day. A feature takes a lot of time where you don't have income coming in, besides investments. So it would be cool to rent my equipment and services and make a few bucks on the side.

I was looking and Birns and Sawyer charges like $1,850 per day for a good F900 package -- wow!! I was just hoping that my services as a camera operator with a full RED package would be at least $500 per day. That's not too shabby, better than gaffing for $50 per day or free, hehe.

 

[Steve Gibby]

IMO you should be able to get a lot more than $500 per day for you + your RED One package.

 

[Jonathan L. Bowen]

That's what I thought, but I don't want to say something stupid and have people think, "No dude, you can't make that much," haha.

So if I'm renting myself as a camera operator with it, what are you thinking I should charge? What about a sliding scale where you charge more for one day shoots than for a five-day shoot, let's say. Like $1,000 for one day, or $800 per day for five days or more, etc.

 

[Poi Boy]

As I have said before a red rental package will have a hefty premium for at least a year until the supply catches up. I'm guessing $1.5K/day.
Aloha
-A
As far as rent versus buy, kind of a silly question for this site would't you say ?

 

[Jonathan L. Bowen]

So how would you say is the best way to find people who are interested in renting equipment like this? Set up a Website, do some advertising, that kind of thing? Through industry contacts maybe? Get to know some people who know you have a RED for rental.

 

[Poi Boy]

Maybe that would be a good category to include on red user... a rental list.
Aloha
-A

 

[Gavin Greenwalt]

Can we close this poll and open one not written in Yoda. I think I voted for "Rent" but I can't be sure, I might have just claimed to rape kittens.

 

[Poi Boy]

The kittens had it coming...written in yoda, that is very funny.
Aloha
-A

 

[johannperry]

So how would you say is the best way to find people who are interested in renting equipment like this? Set up a Website, do some advertising, that kind of thing? Through industry contacts maybe? Get to know some people who know you have a RED for rental.

the thing with camera rental is that there are pretty established methods of renting gear. Most production companies or cameramen want to go to a rental company where there is a whole list of extra gear that they can hire in addition to the camera depending on the size and complexity of the project. They also want transport, insurance and technical backup. They want an immediate replacement if things break too. If the hirer is shooting in Cambodia and needs an immediate replacement for a camera which is down it is on your head. A friend of mine who runs a large camera hire company has just had 3 HDX900 kits stuck in Iceland for a month because some bright spark didn't fill in a customs form properly. He has had a few problems replacing these cameras for other jobs. I don't want to put you off renting your gear out but you just need to think it through carefully. The world of dry hire is not always that simple and there are many hidden costs that you would need to look into and add to your buisness plan. That is why camera packages look expensive to hire, you are paying for the other costs of running a hire company too.

 

[Roberto B]

Can we close this poll and open one not written in Yoda. I think I voted for "Rent" but I can't be sure, I might have just claimed to rape kittens.

The kittens had it coming...written in yoda, that is very funny.
Aloha
-A

eheheh.. i'm with you Mr. Poi.. eheheh.. yoda rocks.. and to own.. same way.. eheheh

 

[Jonathan L. Bowen]

Yeah that's true for sure, I mean I would need to buy insurance on my equipment that is a definite, but that has to be done anyway. As for having extra equipment, that's why I want to have every lens available basically, not only because I know I'll want to use them for myself but because it'll be good to have in case they are needed on other shoots where professionals definitely expect them to have the necessary gear.

We will also have a full array of professional lighting equipment, so if they need to rent that equipment too it wouldn't be a problem. We intend to have a van (soon, but parking is an issue now; David is going to buy a house pretty soon and I have a condo, so my parking situation is limited) for transportation purposes, for our own shooting, so essentially I want to make sure that whatever equipment a professional is going to need, I have myself anyway. Granted if they want five REDs and a studio and all this kind of stuff, they're not going to rent from me. But if I'm offering basically 30-50% off normal rental prices from big companies I wouldn't think it'd be too difficult to find interested parties.

I think if you are renting equipment yourself you can't charge the same price as a big professional rental company because you're right, if I'm shooting a huge project, like a feature, in some other area of the world I'm going to go with a really reliable, established company. But for local jobs around here I wouldn't think it would be difficult to find a solid 5 days of work per month, anyway. I could be wrong, I have no idea, but I'm not expecting (or wanting) to rent my RED out very often, and I would always come with it if I did rent it out. Perhaps the best idea is to make sure if I did anything, David has his RED available that day so that if anything happened to mine an immediate replacement would be available. That would probably increase anyone's enthusiasm about working with my equipment (and with me). But it seems a given I should know how to work the RED I have and get the best out of it if I'm going to rent my services with the camera.

Good advice, though, and you're right a lot of extra considerations go into renting equipment. I don't want to start a rental company, that's not my interest in this business, but if it could be a way to supplement my income that would be nice, as a backup. I may never end up doing it, I am not sure, but knowing you have that ability is at least nice.