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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

to own or to rent red.. what would you prefer?

to own or to rent red.. what would you prefer?

  • my babe 366 days per year including when february has just 28 days..

    Votes: 113 91.9%

  • i hate babes on their own.. just taking advantage after all just when others can't own their own..

    Votes: 10 8.1%
  • Total voters
    123
Well here in Japan I plan to rent my two Reds out as package deals for the following prices (per package):

JPY 175,000 per day
JPY 1,000,000 per week (~80% day rate)
JPY 3,500,000 per month (~67% day rate)

Now that is as a full package containing the following items:
  • Red One Digital Cinema Camera (body)
  • Red 18-50mm Close Focus Zoom (PL mount)
  • Electronic Viewfinder (EVF)
  • LCD Display (LCD)
  • Power Pack (charger plus 2x 140Whr Li-Ion batteries)
  • RedDrive Digital Magazine (320GB) x2
  • Red CompactFlash Adaptor
  • CompactFlash Card (8GB) x2
  • SD Card (for storing camera settings, LUTs etc.)
  • RedRail Premium Production Pack (full rail set with handles and plates)
  • Matte Box (CVB's probably)
  • Follow Focus Kit
  • Tripod (head and one set of long legs)
  • Camera operator/on set technician (with laptop for transferring footage, altering LUT settings etc.)
I am fully aware of how lots of rental houses do 2-3 day weeks etc but the above idea of pricing per day, week or month seems more logical to me and means people can instantly work out how much they are going to spend for their shoot. It's also a balance between guaranteed camera work and income versus cost, so that a monthly rental earns me less but it's guaranteed income, whereas the day rate is higher but there will be down time where the camera is not generating any income.

Since I'll be paying people to be on set with the camera as technicians and data managers this seems like a reasonable deal to me, plus of course I am paying for the company infrastructure such as office rental, insurance, computers etc which all adds up rather fast when you do the maths.
 
visceralpsyche said:
Well here in Japan I plan to rent my two Reds out as package deals for the following prices (per package):

JPY 175,000 per day
JPY 1,000,000 per week (~80% day rate)
JPY 3,500,000 per month (~67% day rate)

Now that is as a full package containing the following items:
Click to expand...

Hi Paul, is that day rate you have $1,431.00 U.S.?

That seems kind of low for that kit, with a tech... considering how weak the U.S. dollar is right now.

Do mind sharing how much you have to pay the tech?
 
I will be paying my staff (five of them in total including myself) JPY 300,000 per month (gross) each, which with Japan's 5% tax rate is pretty easy to live on (I know because I'm on a little bit less right now!). We're going to be a rather non-traditional company, with people wearing several hats and being flexible in their work hours and practices. Two of us will be Australian nationals working here; the other three will be Japanese locals. As I expand the amount of cameras I will expand the number of staff commensurately, while adding people who bring unique skills to the company (my goal long term is a production company so my staff will each have areas of specialisation beyond the camera tech job they will do initially).

Japan is a little non-conventional in that most people live at home with their parents until they get married, so for them the salary is actually pretty good, which along with my western work practices (time off, sick days which the Japanese companies never give etc) will make for a small, happy and dedicated crew who are good at their jobs and enjoy working with the best hardware in the business! I'm not hiring established DPs etc - I'm hiring based on people I trust first and foremost, who I can work with long term. You can always teach someone to do a job, but you can't teach loyalty, and that is far more important to me with such a small company. This will be my family in a certain way so loyalty becomes the number one priority to me.

The big unknowns for me right now are the cost of a sufficient tripod head and sticks (will see what the first hundred or so reservations use and base my purchasing decisions from there) and the potential cost of advertising that I actually have the cameras, but I figure once word of mouth gets out locally I won't have too much trouble maintaining a full rental schedule.

Something else not mentioned here is that I also am thinking of holding a small invitation only event when my first camera arrives in order for prospective clients to see it in the flesh and see its capabilities first hand. You know, a few free drinks, nibblies etc along with a camera set up and recording live to a computer for instant output to a (probably) 2K projector or something. I think of it as an initial advertising cost but I think it'd be a nice way to get people interested and get potential clients signing up on the schedule, as well as being able to meet and greet the staff who they would be working with and seeing that they are in fact competent and professional. As with everything Japanese, I'll probably get the crew into matching uniform shirts with my company logo for that extra shine (the Japanese love the idea of uniform identity as a sign of professionalism).

(Sorry, I went off on a little bit of a tangent but I thought it might be interesting for people to get a bit of information on Japanese working life which they might otherwise think is much the same as western culture.)

The numbers above are factored into my business plan and still gain me a good profit margin which I will need to stay in business and expand down the line as the camera becomes more widespread and begins to drag down rental rates. I do look on the numbers as possibly being a little low, but then I'm also a startup in a foreign country and want to use those numbers to gain a clientele who will stay with me over the long term. Better to have a full rental calendar early and pay the things off while I have a monopoly, then I no longer have to worry about the debt anchor and can expand accordingly while others are playing catchup. HTH!!
 
visceralpsyche -- Sweet! Sounds like a good plan for sure. I agree with you about employee loyalty. I would much rather have people who I can really trust and who are willing to learn, enthusiastic, hard-working, etc. than just people who are a bit more skilled. Being dependable is very important.
 
Paul, thanks for such a thorough reply which I did find very interesting.

Lets see, 5 salaries @ 2.5k = 12.5K + 2 Nice Red packages and misc .... approximately 8k a month. That's like what? 20k a month in over head? And the kits will be paid off in about a year?

So you need about 14 day rentals a month from two kits to break even. That should work. But....

I still hope you find that your (RED) market demand will be high enough to charge a little more.

Good luck!
 
Visceralpsyche,
very nice to share your business idea. Here in Austria people have to get pretty drunk to share with you any info or an idea about their work. Another country, another mentality, another practices. Anyway people in Anglo-Saxon countries are more open than in German speaking countries. Have a look at Germany, Austria, Switzerland. Industrially pretty developed countries, and rich BUT still a local provincial mentality rules. Not so easy.
 
Easy Rider (1969)

Easy Rider (1969)

Dominique Grenier said:
Maybe there's a connection between the two... :bleh:
Click to expand...

- In general that sound pretty conservative. I will do a digression again and take another example: Film "Easy Rider">>

"Easy Rider (1969) is the late 1960s "road film" tale of a search for freedom (or the illusion of freedom) in a conformist and corrupt America, in the midst of paranoia, bigotry and violence...>>AMERICA>>BOTH ARE COMING FROM CALIFORNIA (SYMBOL OF FREEDOM, OPENESS, VERY RICH STATE) DRIVING TO MIDDLE OF USA...

- The iconographic, 'buddy' film, actually minimal in terms of its artistic merit and plot, is both memorialized as an image of the popular and historical culture of the time and a story of a contemporary but apocalyptic journey by two self-righteous, drug-fueled, anti-hero bikers eastward through the American Southwest...>>TWO CARACTERS SEARCH FOR A FREEDOM BASICALLY...

-According to slogans on promotional posters, they were on a search:
A man went looking for America and couldn't find it anywhere.
Their costumes combine traditional patriotic symbols with emblems of loneliness, criminality and alienation - the American flag, cowboy decorations, long-hair, and drugs.

- Middle America's hatred for the long-haired cyclists is shown in the film's famous ending. When Wyatt speeds down the road to seek help for his dying friend, the rednecks turn around and drive toward him - gunfire again blasts through the window and Wyatt's bike flies through the air. [Significantly, Wyatt's dead body doesn't appear in the final scene.] The closing image (of the earlier flash-forward) is an aerial shot floating upwards above his motorcycle which is burning in flames by the side of the road. Death seems to be the only freedom or means to escape from the system in America where alternative lifestyles and idealism are despised as too challenging or free. The romance of the American highway is turned menacing and deadly."


QUOTES TAKEN FROM
http://www.filmsite.org/easy.html

Another reference to Germany, Austria and more wider>>

"The Holocaust (from the Greek holókauston from olon "completely" and kauston "burnt"), also known as Ha-Shoah (Hebrew: ?????), Churben (Yiddish: ?????), is the term generally used to describe the killing of approximately six million European Jews during World War II, as part of a program of deliberate extermination planned and executed by the National Socialist regime in Germany led by Adolf Hitler.[2]
Other groups were persecuted and killed by the regime, including the Roma, Soviet POWs, disabled people, gay men, Jehovah's Witnesses, Catholic Poles, and political prisoners.[3][4] Many scholars do not include these groups in the definition of the Holocaust, defining it as the genocide of the Jews,[5] or what the Nazis called the "Final Solution of the Jewish Question." Taking into account all the victims of Nazi persecution, the death toll rises considerably: estimates generally place the total number of victims at nine to 11 million.[6]"

QUOTES TAKEN FROM
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Holocaust

HATREDS, PROSECUTION, KILLING, DEATH is it a part of history and culture of developed and rich nations, or is dedicated only to a poor, non-developed third world??!!

And now you could rethink your statement and conclude in a different even oposite way then using your "smiles".
 
Quote"HATREDS, PROSECUTION, KILLING, DEATH is it a part of history and culture of developed and rich nations??!!

And now you could rethink your statement and conclude in a different even oposite way then using your "smiles"."
__________________


"HATREDS, PROSECUTION, KILLING, DEATH" is the history of mankind and has NOTHING to do with country.
-A
 
The Third Man said:
- In general that sound pretty conservative.

(...)

And now you could rethink your statement and conclude in a different even oposite way then using your "smiles".
Click to expand...

Huummm, I don't usually get into this, but I will because I think you REALLY misunderstood me! (or maybe I was inappropriate, I don't know)

What I meant was that maybe the reasons the countries you mentionned are so industrially advanced and rich is because they are not open about what they do, and therefore keep their secrets for themselves. Maybe it wasn't clear, but to me that really doesn't sound like an insult, is it?

Any way, I'm sorry if you were insulted by what I said, it wasn't at all my intention, hence the smiley face at the end.
 
“Power and Terror: Noam Chomsky in Our Times”

“Power and Terror: Noam Chomsky in Our Times”

Poi Boy said:
"HATREDS, PROSECUTION, KILLING, DEATH" is the history of mankind and has NOTHING to do with country.
-A
Click to expand...

Sounds almost like a truth. But it is just a partially.

Noam Chomsky wrote:
"Everyone's worried about stopping terrorism. Well, there's a really easy way: Stop participating in it."
Link>>
http://www.frif.com/new2002/pandt.html
Video trailer/DVD>>
http://www.powerandterror.com/
 
hi Third man.

Please refrain from your political rants.
 
haha

haha

Wait.. you think that's GOOD news? I just lost a lot of respect for Spielberg. Voting for Hilary Clinton for president, LOL, wow... yeah right.

I don't know how this thread become political but liberal or conservative, I can't imagine anyone voting for her. What a joke.
 
Curran

I have not seen a rental house offer any long term deals for a loan to them. The thing is I see a rental house useing your camera for the first little while as there is no risk of owning a $25,000 boat anchor if the camera is a flop. Then if the rental house finds rentals of the camera are busy and at a good rate they will buy some of their own and return yours to you as soon as their cameras come in. Their a rental company and they make the bulk of money by buying and renting gear not renting and then renting gear.
 
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