To be clear...

[Curran Giddens]

For instance, on the RED store, where for EPIC it just says 'coming soon!', there should be (and have been for a long time) info about the stages, the ordering process, links to place an order for whatever stage, EPIC-M... all kept up to date as things change.

You can't order an Epic at the moment anyway. Stage 2 is closed and Stage 3 hasn't opened yet. Also, the exact package details have changed, but haven't been announced. And if you don't already know about how to get an Epic-M right now, you probably don't qualify anyway.

Ditto for *real* information about, for instance, the EVF, the saga, the availability.

Red has already heard this request about the EVF.

 

[LeeArcher1]

Yeah, that's all nice - in theory. If only there weren't so many useless nothing-contributing responses to every post by the RED team. Seriously, sifting through the forums is ridiculously painful. Some of us work, we have children, choose to spend free time in many various different ways other than try to find useful info by having to skip through pages and pages of junk while looking for the few informative and important pieces of info in-between. Ideally, there would be a way of sorting through everything and only showing posts by Red. Frankly, little other is of any consequence other than lost time. I suspect that some of the people who don't come here simply got tired and fed up by trying.

messages like this annoy me. DO none of you moaners understand the concept of a forum!! :furious3:

If you want official facts/ announcements then check RED.com for publicly released info. If you want to stay on top of your game and keep technically and creatively advanced from your peers, then keep reading / researching forums for those tips tricks and other useful info we all find invaluable.

I do my best to read all posts (useless or not) to keep up to date with info / stats / future developments etc (not just RED, but anything to do with technology really - you never know where inspiration or developments in tech may take you). So when a producer asks me if we should invest in a piece of kit or 'how can we film this' or 'how was that made/created' i can give a thorough analysis of current / future products / thoughts within the industry.

Time of course is the most valuable commodity these days, but knowledge and understanding of any technology is what will win you the job.... and keep the job coming back to you.

Jim & Co work v.hard to move the industry forward by developing great equipment, but, also, hundreds of users of this forum also do great things within the industry and i for one will gladly sift through "useless" posts to find those nuggets that can improve my own work and those around me.

rant over... lol.

 

[AnthonyFlores]

messages like this annoy me. DO none of you moaners understand the concept of a forum!! :furious3:

If you want official facts/ announcements then check RED.com for publicly released info. If you want to stay on top of your game and keep technically and creatively advanced from your peers, then keep reading / researching forums for those tips tricks and other useful info we all find invaluable.

I do my best to read all posts (useless or not) to keep up to date with info / stats / future developments etc (not just RED, but anything to do with technology really - you never know where inspiration or developments in tech may take you). So when a producer asks me if we should invest in a piece of kit or 'how can we film this' or 'how was that made/created' i can give a thorough analysis of current / future products / thoughts within the industry.

Time of course is the most valuable commodity these days, but knowledge and understanding of any technology is what will win you the job.... and keep the job coming back to you.

Jim & Co work v.hard to move the industry forward by developing great equipment, but, also, hundreds of users of this forum also do great things within the industry and i for one will gladly sift through "useless" posts to find those nuggets that can improve my own work and those around me.

rant over... lol.

Agreed! Those who just want to read Jim and Jared's posts ... just click on their name, and then click on the link that says "Find all posts by Jannard" or "Find all posts by Jarred Land" ... and presto, you will be shown all their posts and can click on each one, thus avoiding anyone else (if you want that).

It's really freaking easy ... I do this every single day to make sure I don't miss any big announcements.

At the same time, I also have respect for the knowledge and wisdom of the non-Red team people who post here (I've learned a ton from moderators, veterans and even newbies at times) .... so I'm happy there are so many posts here.

I wouldn't change a thing

Anthony

 

[Jiri Bakala]

Maybe there could be a system where every post has a special flag in it that registers its content-worthiness, so members can set their accounts to ignore such posts if they so choose.

Or maybe they could offer the option of simply being able to ignore posts below a certain size or simply have the post editor refuse to accept them in the first place

Ideally, there would be an automated system that could keep track of the percentage of a member's posts that get marked as time-wasters, and people with a consistently good record would eventually be exempted from the system, since not all short posts are useless. Also, the moderators would have the power to grant or remove exempt status of course.

Good idea.

 

[Jeff Kilgroe]

Yeah, that's all nice - in theory. If only there weren't so many useless nothing-contributing responses to every post by the RED team. Seriously, sifting through the forums is ridiculously painful. Some of us work, we have children, choose to spend free time in many various different ways other than try to find useful info by having to skip through pages and pages of junk while looking for the few informative and important pieces of info in-between. Ideally, there would be a way of sorting through everything and only showing posts by Red. Frankly, little other is of any consequence other than lost time. I suspect that some of the people who don't come here simply got tired and fed up by trying.

It's already pointed out that the RED TEAM button is for only showing posts from RED people. And yes, there are other ways to sort and restrict showing only posts from certain users. You can use the on-site advanced search panel to show every post from Jim, Jarred, Graeme and Deanan for the past 60 days and nothing else, if you choose.

Not going to get into any pissing match with how people choose to spend their time. That is their choice. Sure, people work and have families, etc.. I do to, I'm not just blowing a bunch of idealistic smoke out of my butt.

I would say at least 60%, or more, of the good information on these forums is posted by non-RED-TEAM individuals, so to say little other is of any consequence is a bit undeserving. I don't know if you have actually done it, but simply clicking the RED TEAM button in many threads often skips over other vital information between their posts. There are many great contributors on these forums and at times they're the ones who point out the key technical details or current issues. And if you only skim the posts from RED, you may just see the posts that say "we're looking into it..", "sure" or "heh heh heh."

BTW, "heh heh heh." is one of my favorite recurring posts.

 

[Danish P.V.]

Yeah, that's all nice - in theory. If only there weren't so many useless nothing-contributing responses to every post by the RED team. Seriously, sifting through the forums is ridiculously painful. Some of us work, we have children, choose to spend free time in many various different ways other than try to find useful info by having to skip through pages and pages of junk while looking for the few informative and important pieces of info in-between. Ideally, there would be a way of sorting through everything and only showing posts by Red. Frankly, little other is of any consequence other than lost time. I suspect that some of the people who don't come here simply got tired and fed up by trying.

amen brother! and you won`t believe how many people stay away from reduser because of this.
but luckily, luckily, luckily just recently they introduced the "red team" button, I left the forum when things became too "amazing-heavy" - now I dip in from time to time again. try it - you`ll see that it`s the solution of our problem!

 

[Jiri Bakala]

It's already pointed out that the RED TEAM button is for only showing posts from RED people. And yes, there are other ways to sort and restrict showing only posts from certain users. You can use the on-site advanced search panel to show every post from Jim, Jarred, Graeme and Deanan for the past 60 days and nothing else, if you choose.

Not going to get into any pissing match with how people choose to spend their time. That is their choice. Sure, people work and have families, etc.. I do to, I'm not just blowing a bunch of idealistic smoke out of my butt.

I would say at least 60%, or more, of the good information on these forums is posted by non-RED-TEAM individuals, so to say little other is of any consequence is a bit undeserving. I don't know if you have actually done it, but simply clicking the RED TEAM button in many threads often skips over other vital information between their posts. There are many great contributors on these forums and at times they're the ones who point out the key technical details or current issues. And if you only skim the posts from RED, you may just see the posts that say "we're looking into it..", "sure" or "heh heh heh."

BTW, "heh heh heh." is one of my favorite recurring posts.

Exactly Jeff. There is definitively some great info by non-Red members here - so the search methods outlined here - albeit helpful - are not a solution. The 'junk' I was referring to is the classic fan-boy stuff that contributes nothing and makes posts into excessive multi-page never-ending reads that may or may not have some useful stuff. Unless you actually go through it you never know. And that's exactly where the frustration lies.

So, I'll make this an appeal to members: unless you have an actual informative contribution to the issue discussed, please, refrain from posting.

 

[LeeArcher1]

I understand you get frustrated, fine, but the very nature of a forum is about being a community, not an information overload website based on pure facts, etc. general chat is where we discuss ideas, create debates, and express gratitude to those who have helped us. its the 'banter' that keeps a forum alive.

please read the first post in this thread and tell me how ANYONE can possibly supply an actual informative contribution to what jannard has posted.

I think you need the communal conversations (as you say- 'junk'), Otherwise the forum would lose many more of its users. We live in a social media world; to get rid of the social part would be an idiotic move for ANY forum or website.

 

[Elsie N]

There is definitively some great info by non-Red members here - so the search methods outlined here - albeit helpful - are not a solution. The 'junk' I was referring to is the classic fan-boy stuff that contributes nothing and makes posts into excessive multi-page never-ending reads that may or may not have some useful stuff. Unless you actually go through it you never know. And that's exactly where the frustration lies.

So, I'll make this an appeal to members: unless you have an actual informative contribution to the issue discussed, please, refrain from posting.

I understand why you want to get rid of the "junk". But remember there was once the notion that our very own "junk" DNA had no purpose. Now researchers are learning different.

Something akin to what you want was tried a couple of years ago and REDuser became boring. Fewer people came here to gather on the Net.

I submit for your consideration (apologies to Rod Serling) that what you call junk is actually brainstorming. People express "fanboyism" in many different ways and some of those posts trigger an idea and then a learning experience takes place.

You might say this portion of this thread is "junk", but in my opinion it is a debate.

Debate is great.

EDIT: What he (LeeArcher1) said.

 

[AnthonyFlores]

Also, keep in mind that some of the "amazing" or positive posts from people using different words can be helpful to Red as customer feedback/approval of new ideas, products, etc.

This forum is not just for us, it's also for Red to get live, real time interaction and calibration of what they're doing from the customers they value so much. Positive feedback -- even if just one word -- sometimes helps with that.

It's not always just fanboyism

Anthony

 

[Gary Paul Walker]

It's already pointed out that the RED TEAM button is for only showing posts from RED people. And yes, there are other ways to sort and restrict showing only posts from certain users. You can use the on-site advanced search panel to show every post from Jim, Jarred, Graeme and Deanan for the past 60 days and nothing else, if you choose.

Not going to get into any pissing match with how people choose to spend their time. That is their choice. Sure, people work and have families, etc.. I do to, I'm not just blowing a bunch of idealistic smoke out of my butt.

I would say at least 60%, or more, of the good information on these forums is posted by non-RED-TEAM individuals, so to say little other is of any consequence is a bit undeserving. I don't know if you have actually done it, but simply clicking the RED TEAM button in many threads often skips over other vital information between their posts. There are many great contributors on these forums and at times they're the ones who point out the key technical details or current issues. And if you only skim the posts from RED, you may just see the posts that say "we're looking into it..", "sure" or "heh heh heh."

BTW, "heh heh heh." is one of my favorite recurring posts.

heh heh heh

(yes, I just did)

It amazes me that on a public forum someone would berate the extent and quality of the posts contained within.
Not that I want to in anyway insult Jim et al, but the best information tends to be from the users in the field. Their experiances shouldnt be devoide of personality and good humour - thats what a good old fashioned press release is for.

 

[dustin lindgren]

Exactly Jeff. There is definitively some great info by non-Red members here - so the search methods outlined here - albeit helpful - are not a solution. The 'junk' I was referring to is the classic fan-boy stuff that contributes nothing and makes posts into excessive multi-page never-ending reads that may or may not have some useful stuff. Unless you actually go through it you never know. And that's exactly where the frustration lies.

So, I'll make this an appeal to members: unless you have an actual informative contribution to the issue discussed, please, refrain from posting.

I'd rather read "Fan Boy" post than your whining. I have personally never had a problem finding info on this site and I am just as busy as any working. You need to learn how to use Reduser. Your tone sucks as well.

Read the title of this thread and then tell us how YOU have contributed so much great useful info for all of us to learn from while sticking to the topic.

There are always ways to improve but when one hypocritically and rudely suggest points, it tends to turn into useless info.

Now to get back on topic, I accept your offer Jim. Thank you for the deal your giving us.

 

[Robert Knoll]

Hey guys,

I have been out of action for a while. Where do I find info and detail on "the deal"?

Thanks

 

[Leo Sardello]

The saying that comes to my mind is "You can please some of the people some of the time and all of the people none of the time."

Personally, my favorite posts are the ones that complain about all the "noise" that must be filtered through. You do see the irony in your actions right?

This is a public Internet discussion forum. If only RED employees could post in it it wouldn't be REDUSER it would be REDMAKER. I would like to know what piece of critical operating information was ever obscured by the so called noise. I've seen information critical to the speculative discussion that takes place on this forum obscured sometimes, but I've never seen information critical to operation posted in the same way. That info is pretty easy to find with a modicum of effort. And it should be noted that the users of this forum are extremely generous and helpful in finding information if one bothers to ask- even when it comes to the redundant questions about release dates and such, the answers to which could have been easily gained via a simple search.

I look at the people at RED, who aren't any less busy than anyone else on this forum, and wonder how they find the time to engage so actively with their customers... yet they do. I think that is the example to follow and we don't see them complaining.

*EDIT* Looks like I got beat to the punch by several people... great minds and all.

 

[Leo Sardello]

Hey guys,

I have been out of action for a while. Where do I find info and detail on "the deal"?

Thanks

To which "deal" are you referring? ... I'll take a stab that this is what you are looking for...

http://reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?t=45483&highlight=stage+clarification

 

[Roberto B]

Could you pitch us what a great customer is/does in your opinion?

haha paolo sei terribile...

 

[Tim Whitcomb]

Exactly Jeff. There is definitively some great info by non-Red members here - so the search methods outlined here - albeit helpful - are not a solution. The 'junk' I was referring to is the classic fan-boy stuff that contributes nothing and makes posts into excessive multi-page never-ending reads that may or may not have some useful stuff. Unless you actually go through it you never know. And that's exactly where the frustration lies.

So, I'll make this an appeal to members: unless you have an actual informative contribution to the issue discussed, please, refrain from posting.

Id argue that posts like this (which have now taken up two pages) are FAR WORSE than a fan boy's "one or two word comment and emoticon."

You are making this WAY more complicated than need be. Jeff's advanced search solution is excellent (didnt know it existed) I usually click on jannard and Jarred and Deanan and Graeme and Brent... and catch up on their posts first. EASY.

For instance this little visited thread with Graeme is phenomenal insight into high end VFX workflow and I found this simply by clicking on Graeme.

http://reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?p=741671#post741671

Cheers!

 

[Gavin Greenwalt]

Unless you actually go through it you never know. And that's exactly where the frustration lies.

In the context though of "customers aren't getting notified of significant opportunities" you can't really make that argument. While there is a lot of info that gets lost in the noise--usually it's in response to the first post where important information is consolidated.

Stage 2/2 for instance wasn't buried deep in the chaff, it was a series of topic titles.

 

[Jeff Coatney]

To Be Even More Clear...

To Be Even More Clear...

Obsolescence Obsolete... we said it. We believe it. We are delivering it.

The RED ONE was advertised as such. But we realized that it could not live up to the ongoing advancements we had envisioned, even though we offered the MX sensor upgrade which is well beyond what any company had ever done for their customers.

So we developed EPIC. And we gave our RED ONE customers a way to upgrade to EPIC without any pain.

Stage 2 and Stage 3 are our solutions to Obsolescence Obsolete. Choose one if you are a RED ONE owner. They are your choices. Don't think past these choices... anything beyond these are not fair to us.

NAB is approaching. We will answer all your questions at NAB. We will show you more than you could every imagine. We will be a great supplier. We only ask you to be a great customers. Fair deal?

Jim

My Expectations of Red from a Client Perspective:

By now, Red has earned my trust- completely. They may "not know what they're doing"- but they have delivered an impossible product at an impossible price.

Obsolescence: Taking the Lego approach to building a pro imaging platform was inspired-- it was genius. It is a definite improvement over Red One's form factor. For as long as there are 4K and lower rez standards of display and exhibition in the market, I expect the Epic camera system will remain relevant and usable. Therefore: Promise kept - not obsolete.

Incremental Improvement: As long as Red makes cameras based on the Mysterium architecture, I expect they will continue to improve how software interprets the raw data from the sensor. At some point I expect this to diminish based on two factors: as the broad use of earlier Mysterium based sensor families decline and as exhibition technology adapts to changes in the marketplace (like the rise of 8K TV, etc.). Therefore: Promise kept - not obsolete.

Data (Heat) Management: I believe every available innovation in this field has been harnessed to maximize the flow of data vs. heat management. I expect broad innovation in this area (substrate) within 5 years- but we don't have this yet. I expect Red will adopt innovation as it comes online- if they don't become the driving force behind it in the process. Adopting these innovations will mean a new board stack. This will give future generations of Epic improved data/heat management which will increase frame rates, resolution, etc. but I do not expect it to be reverse-implemented into the existing form-factor because such innovation often comes with other advantages in size and weight and I believe a new form-factor will emerge. Therefore: Promise kept - not obsolete.

Continued Development: I expect Red will innovate in the form-factor arena. I believe we will see this manifest itself most dramatically in the Scarlet 2/3rd's product line. Red has not served this sector of the market yet- not fully. When Red delivered the Red One- practical feedback gave rise to the now familiar Epic form-factor, making it even more suitable to professional use. When Scarlet 8X fixed hits the market- a market sector whose implementation of the product will be broader based- I believe that radical form-factor innovation could be a likely result.

IMO, the big take-away from the statement "Obsolescence Obsolete" is a promise that every effort will be made to maximize the product that we, the clients of Red have bought into. That may include sensor upgrades, certainly firmware upgrades and other plug-and-play innovations that can be reasonably implemented into an as-built format. Therefore: Promise kept - not obsolete.

The real area where "Obsolescence Obsolete" comes into play is this: I expect Red will never artificially curtail advances in resolution, frame rates, DR, post, or exhibition to make their job easier. They will never take their foot off the gas pedal just to sell more cameras or Red Rays. The cinematic future will never again be the stagnate arena of standardized formats and entrenched dogma that it has been. Resolution enhancements will be fluid and ever-increasing, as will other aspects of filmmaking. The Red Ray delivery platform will likely guarantee that. Therefore: Promise kept - not obsolete.

I believe Red will push past 8K to 28K and beyond. They are positioned, culturally and talent wise to push the market forward. Does that mean the Epic that exists today will someday be able to do 16K? No. We can't expect that the form-factor that serves us so well today will be suited to carry the innovations of tomorrow. But I do believe in that 16K+ future, and I no longer worry about it never getting here.

Finally, I can't reasonably expect that the dollar I spend today carries over, protected, into that future camera innovation. I can't expect to be able to bolt-on an 8K brain into a stack of components build to handle a 5K data rate. I can't expect that Red can innovate for free. There must be new platforms, new form-factors and new Sensor families coming. We'll have to buy them. I've always felt that Stage 2 is Jim's way of saying "Thanks for believing in us."

I am a believer.

 

[Hrvoje Simic]

Maybe there could be a system where every post has a special flag in it that registers its content-worthiness, so members can set their accounts to ignore such posts if they so choose.

Or maybe they could offer the option of simply being able to ignore posts below a certain size or simply have the post editor refuse to accept them in the first place

Ideally, there would be an automated system that could keep track of the percentage of a member's posts that get marked as time-wasters, and people with a consistently good record would eventually be exempted from the system, since not all short posts are useless. Also, the moderators would have the power to grant or remove exempt status of course.

Complicating the system won't solve issues, it will just add to their complexity.