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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

To be a Director ...

Mike Nagel said:
What I meant is, the writer is the creator of the story (unless the story was adapted). It's all about storytelling and movies are just one medium to tell a story.

But I absolutely agree with what u wrote here. IMO, once the writer is done and/or has sold the script it is now up to the director to execute his vision and the writer whether he likes it or not has to be okay with that.

Some writers want the right to be on set. Other times directors/producers invite writers onto the set for consultation.

But IMO too many cooks mess up the food, so once the script has been sold that ship has sailed.

Everybody has a (different) vision when they read stories. You can only execute one. Better to execute one vision properly, then to try to mix the writers/directors/producers vision and end up with as mess that means nothing.
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Good perspective.

From time to time I am asked to read over changes made by production (director or producer, changes suggested by an actor), but really for the most part once the 'ship has sailed' I am out of the loop. I prefer it that way. Surprise me!

On a few occasions the changes were either so bad that even another writer wouldn't try to fix it, or painted me in a way I did not agree with (racisit, sexist, gratuitous this or that) that I asked for my name to be removed. Rare, but happens.
 
Elsie N said:
As primarily an observer/sometimes poster to this thread, this seems to sum up your belief of the writer/director relationship.

What's interesting to me is that no one that I can recall directly contradict that belief as stated above. It's just that the thread is really about Writer/Director as one (or acting as one unit)... and even the Kurosawa statement taken out of context but when viewed in its entirety isn't at odds with what you have been defending. But it is also not at odds with what others on here are saying.

That said, I'm glad the back and forth has played out the way it has BecaSue it has prompted many posts with references both pro and con and from both sides of the debate that are interesting.

IME, A hearty well done participants!
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obviously, everybody just has opinions here and/or their workflow or approaches. On ur set u can do whatever. There is nothing against the writer/director combo. Same as there is nothing against the director/cinematographer combo which has been done many, many times.

But "having a vision" and being able to "professionally execute a vision" on a set with many people is two very different things, as discussed.

IMO, most important thing is to execute ur vision as good as humanly possible. Execution is top dog.
 
Mike Nagel said:
Everybody has a (different) vision when they read stories. You can only execute one.
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Just on that last bit, I don't think that is true at all.

Closing yourself off to better ideas than your own is a surefire way to miss the opportunity to turn a good screenplay into a great film.

When Jeff Cronenweth says to David Fincher 'what if instead of how we have it now, we did it like this and a/b/c happens and the reveal is done in this way instead?' Fincher listens and weighs it up and if he goes with it it is Fincher who gets all the plaudits down the line anyway.

Good films are a collaboration of a shared vision.

It's for a Director to ensure everyone shares the vision moving forward but that's after a ton of development and pre-production where that vision if forged from interacting with all those people.
 
Ben Scott said:
Just on that last bit, I don't think that is true at all.

Closing yourself off to better ideas than your own is a surefire way to miss the opportunity to turn a good screenplay into a great film.

When Jeff Cronenweth says to David Fincher 'what if instead of how we have it now, we did it like this and a/b/c happens and the reveal is done in this way instead?' Fincher listens and weighs it up and if he goes with it it is Fincher who gets all the plaudits down the line anyway.

Good films are a collaboration of a shared vision.

It's for a Director to ensure everyone shares the vision moving forward but that's after a ton of development and pre-production where that vision if forged from interacting with all those people.
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none of this is a problem, as long as the one person who leads the production gets to make the decisions what is being improved/revised/adjusted.

Film is a highly collaborative environment and there is no problem adjusting/revising one's vision once a large project moves forward and more details have come to surface. It is up to the person leading the project to make these decisions and ensure the overall vision is not compromised.

The problems arise when adjustments are forced upon the person leading the production that this person does not agree with and now we are deviating from the path of the vision... this happens all the time with writers on set that have drastically different opinions, producers and/or investors - all for their own reasons. Depending on how strong the contamination is, this can ruin a movie.

You can't have 4 captains on a ship. You can have X amount advisors, but the captain decides where we're going.


Especially on indie productions a lot of peeps do not understand that hierarchy - and this does not apply to newcomers only. There's a reason certain people - although talented - have not made a bigger career in the biz. I've seen the most insane scenes on set, and I'm not talking in front of the camera. A lot of folks in this industry are getting into the business without a traditional education or learning a "proper" trade and have never worked a single day corporate and are not aware of their role here... and proper etiquette.

Especially the word "collaboration" is a get-crazy card for these peeps... with high end professionals, this is a beauty and always, always helpful. As everybody knows their role and place. But I've seen actors trying to tell the DP how to do shots. tell the crew to relight the set... or telling the director to block/stage differently although that has been rehearsed to a T for the last 3 days...

some peeps ask u if they can change a word in a sentence. u agree. next u know they keep changing their lines without asking. u give them the little finger they take the entire arm. ;-)))) best to keep a short leash.

some of this u hear as well with specific talent on very large productions...
 
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Ben Scott said:
That's a completely different situation. Collaboration is mostly what happens before the shoot so that everyone is striving towards a common goal and knows what it is.
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Naw man, collaboration happens throughout the entire process, including and nowadays even more so post-production.

Just ask Fincher what happened on Alien 3 ;-)))))

Location dictates the shoot and that's where a lot of (production phase) collaboration will actually happen - especially on locations that are not controlled studio lot environments. A lot of things change all the time and/or go wrong, whether it is technical equipment failing or humans messing up.

You have to work with the people throughout and that is where the true colors of an individual will be revealed (keeping in mind that sets are often high pace, high pressure situation), no matter what they tell u beforehand or how they act before the shoot - when everything is peachy.

This is why so many folks hang on to good peeps and book them over and over again. It's is super important to get great performances and/or work form peeps, it is sometimes even more important to be able to hang out with them on set 3 months in the djungle...
 
Mike Nagel said:
Writer writes or adapts a story. Filmmaker makes the film. ;-)))
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But a screenwriter is, by default, also part fimmaker, so maybe you mean director. And a director will (should) rely on the individual talents of the production crew. He or she will need the best cinematographer, best sound and lighting, actors, costume, makeup, set design, and most certainly a brilliant editor.


And since I love quotes so much ...

The notion of directing a film is the invention of critics - the whole eloquence of cinema is achieved in the editing room. - Orson Welles


I'm trying to track down an old friend from Japan to see if the Kurosawa quote is correctly traslated.


Also, We need to asume that Sturgeon's Law - 90% of everything is crap - applies to directors as well as screenwriters. It would apply to the actors, DP, and on down the line to the finished film. The trick is assembling a production crew of like-visioned individuals with good habits of working in the 10% bracket, and with a screenplay written or adapted by someone who tends to land in the 10% bracket more often than the 90% bracket.

Jus' sayin'
 
Ben Scott said:
Stop quoting people.You're a writer. Use your own words! :)
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:wink5:


An unknown, wannabe writer whose 'quotes' carry little weight.


Maybe I should try to write a short with the dialogue made only from quotes. That could be fun. I don't use cellphones, so I have lots of functional time on my hands.




"When you have wit of your own, it's a pleasure to credit other people for theirs.” - Criss Jami, Killosophy
 
Ben Scott said:
'quoting other people is no more profound than not having anything to say yourself' -Ben Scott. Just now.
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"I disagree."
Anonymous
 
Ben Scott said:
Now you're quoting the Telegraph, of all things. We're regressing :(
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Yes, sorry. Seemed funny at the moment.


I must have 30 quotes in the book. Ouch.
 
And yet the teasing babble loop goes on.

Mods, you are too kind.
 
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