Tired of the extremely poor craftsmanship of our LCD cables

[CJ Roy]

I have the same 4 lcd-evf cables that I got with my first red one, and a few more that I got since. Never ever had a problem. Shot all over the world, features, docs, music vids, steadicam crane africa whatever. Treating them like what they are goes a long way. They are delicate, expensive precision gear. Treat them that way and they will behave just fine.

Nick

That doesn't really apply when other people use the gear. The problem does exist and is frequent unless you take measures like those mentioned before.

 

[Scott Crawley]

These all sound like good notes to me. Red could certainly lock the threads on their Lemo cables, but to call their craftsmanship shoddy because they do not is a low blow IMHO.

If you have Lemos with threads that are not locked down it IS prudent to do it yourself, and I will also agree that the paint pen is an excellent idea. Thanks John and Isaac.

just adding my 2¢

 

[James_Mills]

These all sound like good notes to me. Red could certainly lock the threads on their Lemo cables, but to call their craftsmanship shoddy because they do not is a low blow IMHO.

If you have Lemos with threads that are not locked down it IS prudent to do it yourself, and I will also agree that the paint pen is an excellent idea. Thanks John and Isaac.

just adding my 2¢

You're right, I apologize if I articulated myself too crassly. I was a bit perturbed over the matter when I made the thread, if a moderator wants to change the title to something along the lines of "Concerns with with our LCD cables," I'd appreciate it.

Here is another source for cables and parts.
http://audio-video-supply.markertek.com/search?w=red+cables

Has anyone used these? I'm not concerned with the price as much as their functionality; if they perform better in the field than the RED ones, perhaps they're worth a purchase.

 

[John Marchant]

If the problem is the Lemo connector, then using another manufacturers cable is highly unlikely to make a difference...

Checking, tightening and torquing nuts and bolts in any scenario is just plain sensible practise and a good thing to make habit.

 

[James_Mills]

Update: So I purchased some threadlock goo and applied it and the cable got stuck in my camera the first usage after. I'm not sure if it's the threadlock's fault (I don't really see how it could be), but it's a very, very strange coincidence that out of the hundreds of times I've inserted LCD cables into the camera it gets stuck in there when I applied this stuff. I'm going to take it to the RED store tomorrow to have it looked at, but I'm obviously not stoked.

Has anyone else had this problem by any chance?

 

[Jason Comparetto]

The way that the Lemo connector works is by sliding a cylinder along the axis of the body, thereby squeezing the locking pins and releasing the connector. If a *tiny* little bit of threadlock were to get in the way of the cylinder, it may be enough to cause it to not complete the slide, and then not release. it will be interesting project to remove that from the camera

 

[Robert Hart]

To remove the stuck plug may come down to a pinhead drop of acetone and maybe a repeat to wick in under the slide ring to release the Loctite and the slide ring. Make sure you don't go near any plastic with the stuff and don't use too much in case it moves inside the plug barrel and attacks the plastic parts inside.

Lemo plugs are also used on the SI2K. In combination with a loosening sleeve, an operator habit of hunting for the fit when offering the plug to the socket, by twisting and feeling for the drop-in instead of matching the donkey marks by eye will get you in trouble sooner or later.

As the sleeve loosens it may happen that the core of the plug will protrude enough for a pin to catch, hang and become bent as you twist.

Some of the pin patterns like the 12 pin data line for the SI2K are symmetrical. If the core comes loose inside it is possible for the pins to go in 90 degrees, 180 degrees or 270 degrees out of position. I was lucky, one of the pins had become bent. The data line Lemo plugs into the SI2K recorder body or the One-Beyond or Cinedeck are on the wrong end of a big ask. The cables which they support are fairly inflexible and heavily load the plug structure, the socket and the supporting body around the socket. I do not imagine the RED camera family is any different in this aspect.


Therefore my own personal preference best practice with Lemo plugs is :-

Secure the plug barrel with loctite as recommended above or as a quick fix, give it a shot of dry-setting not oily ignition sealer spray or give it a shot of hair-lacquer spray.

Ensure as much as is possible that there is little twisting strain on the cable when offering the plug up to the socket. This means teasing the cable out straight beforehand, not just throwing the coil and leaving loose loops which will later unravel and impose a twisting load.

Offer the cable and plug up to the socket with two hands, one for the cable and one for the plug. Use your eyes, not the braille method for finding the fit of the plug in the socket. If you must find the fit of the plug into the socket by feel in the dark, the two-handed method will be an easier way. When twisting to line the plug up with the socket, turn both cable and plug together, not the plug-barrel alone. You are far less likely to loosen the sleeve. The plug will insert more cleanly if you reduce side-loads by assisting the cable with that other hand.


Those little Lemo plugs and sockets are precision instruments and deserve appropriate respect. Your camera would be bigger and heavier without them. As for poor craftsmanship, I might take issue with that notion if I am permitted. The machining and fit of the components of the genuine Lemo plugs and sockets are a genuine work of art in miniature precision.

 

[Joe Taylor]

Update: So I purchased some threadlock goo and applied it and the cable got stuck in my camera the first usage after. I'm not sure if it's the threadlock's fault (I don't really see how it could be), but it's a very, very strange coincidence that out of the hundreds of times I've inserted LCD cables into the camera it gets stuck in there when I applied this stuff. I'm going to take it to the RED store tomorrow to have it looked at, but I'm obviously not stoked.

Has anyone else had this problem by any chance?

As issue like this is exactly why I would be very careful about how you "modify" anything that might, for any reason, void your warranty. Especially when "painting" or "super-gluing" is involved.

 

[James_Mills]

As issue like this is exactly why I would be very careful about how you "modify" anything that might, for any reason, void your warranty. Especially when "painting" or "super-gluing" is involved.

Agreed, yet people in this thread were telling me that it's "such a simple solution that RED shouldn't worry about fixing the product" and here I am now with a stuck lemo.

Awesome.

 

[Robert Hart]

QUOTE: "As issue like this is exactly why I would be very careful about how you "modify" anything that might, for any reason, void your warranty. Especially when "painting" or "super-glueing" is involved." - A fair enough gripe to make. Self-repair has not served you well and that is regretted.


My spray suggestion was perhaps a bit lacking in detail and expectation of how someone would apply it. I also assume too much in the way of commonsense or ability on the part of the victim who might follow the suggestion. The spray materials mentioned are far less robust than industrial thread-locker substances. There are varieties of thread-locker substances. Some permanent thread-lockers share the chemistry of superglue and work similarly as a once-only fixture. Others are formulated to resist, not eliminate loosening. Whilst the chemistry might be related, these are not superglues.

There are many levels at which one can operate cameras and their related stuff.

One level you might define as faith-based in which you study and learn the manuals meticulously and make sure you understand how the camera should behave within that rule-set. Most times this works fine as aviators can historically attest.

Another level is where someone goes the extra step and gains additional understanding of how some detailed things work beyond the scope of the published manual, especially when it comes to third-party components like our troubled Lemo plugs.

There may well be some detailed handling notes on the Lemo plugs for users in a manufacturing setting, in which case we might comfortably return to our faith-based M.O. with added information to guide us if we can get hold of it.

　

Many of us like to publish our anecdotal fixes in the well-meant hope of helping someone out.


That can be fraught with all manner of possibilities :-

The inventor of the fix might have just been a layman who had a bit of a poke here and there, struck it lucky and knows not the mechanics of the perceived problem. The original problem and the "fix" may be entirely unrelated. The real "fix" might have been something that resolved itself in spite of, not because of the intervention.

The inventor of the "fix" might be a completely experienced and qualified practitioner who has mined down to the problem in detail and solved that problem.

The person who follows a published "fix" may not have the fine-detailed understanding of the troubled part or a troublesome electronic process, the skills needed and get into trouble.

The person who has full-detailed understanding may sail through - or may be ambushed if the "fix" he thinks solves his problem is someone else's serendipitous adventure into the entrails which luckily paid off.

 

[James_Mills]

I think you misunderstood me, Robert. I'm in no way criticizing the advice or instructions from my fellow redusers in this thread, they were giving me a viable alternative to the problem I brought up. I was instead trying to point out that these kinds of things happen sometimes when doing our own fixes so suggesting that RED should not simply fix the product in the first place is absurd to me.

 

[Robert Hart]

James. Maybe something gets lost in the translation between ameringlish and strine and I do wax pedantic at times. Certainly I do not dispute the sense of using RED to have the cameras fixed and maintained. They do know how to build them and fix them, build and repair them in clean rooms versus the kitchen table and the dandruff falling out of the scalp. RED is also somewhat of a victim in this if you apply the notion of faith in a product, in this case the Lemo system around which much of the camera in and out porting is laid out and not so easily changed. Their decision to use those dreadful small phono-plugs for audio has me a little confounded though. Those plugs and their matching sockets have been the industry standard for mediocrity for three generations at least and counting. On the other hand, if one gets mislaid, trod on and broken, they are very common to find. They are also about as easy as it gets for quick mount and dismount and the most likely to be unplugged and reconnected in camera moves. So there may have been method there after all. The replacement plug is easily connected by soldering the wire conductors into the plug pins, even with a bent dinner fork, wiresolder and a cigarette lighter if desperation decrees in a remote location.

 

[James_Mills]

So the RED Hollywood store said I'm going to have to send my camera in and it will likely cost a pretty penny. They also said that, because of the way the lemo pins are designed, they're not sure how the locktite would ever work.

I don't recommend using the suggested items in this thread, as I only applied the smallest amount and am stuck with two pins that both no longer lock and unlock from the pull of the (now stuck) outer layer.

 

[Robert Hart]

Given the events that have passed, RED's word should be the final message for RED camera accessories. - No thread-locker material or other similar substances to be used.

 

[Daniel Soderberg]

I also am getting tired of the Red cables failing. Just had my cable start showing me what looks like just a yellow video channel. If I wiggle the cable around sometimes I can get the full image back... Confirmed it's the cable and not any of the connections. Such a pain when this starts happening in the middle of a shoot. Time to buy another $300 cable...

 

[paul engstrom]

Cable cost is a huge bummer (almost as bad as shipping cost!). Arri cables cost roughly 2x what RED charges for cables... At least RED's trying to keep costs lower. Hang in there mate!

 

[Paul Schneider]

I put a little blue gaff tape on the ends of mine to keep the caps intact and make my cables easy to identify on big shoots with cables flying everywhere.

Good Idea

 

[HD Hildebrand]

I also am getting tired of the Red cables failing. Just had my cable start showing me what looks like just a yellow video channel. If I wiggle the cable around sometimes I can get the full image back... Confirmed it's the cable and not any of the connections. Such a pain when this starts happening in the middle of a shoot. Time to buy another $300 cable...

Had a similar issue. Discovered my cable seemed to be grounding out on one end. Opened up/unscrewed the lemo, added a small section of heatshrink (had to be very precise or moving sleeve would not function properly) around the soldered ends of the pins (where wires connect) to prevent the pins from touching the inner portion of the casing/sleeve. I'm sure my description is not very clear, but perhaps this might help.

 

[Jack Shanahan]

I also am getting tired of the Red cables failing. Just had my cable start showing me what looks like just a yellow video channel. If I wiggle the cable around sometimes I can get the full image back... Confirmed it's the cable and not any of the connections. Such a pain when this starts happening in the middle of a shoot. Time to buy another $300 cable...

same issue here. just about to send one into Red for service. anyone done that before with any success?

 

[Jason Comparetto]

So the RED Hollywood store said I'm going to have to send my camera in and it will likely cost a pretty penny. They also said that, because of the way the lemo pins are designed, they're not sure how the locktite would ever work.

I don't recommend using the suggested items in this thread, as I only applied the smallest amount and am stuck with two pins that both no longer lock and unlock from the pull of the (now stuck) outer layer.

Hi James,

I feel bad for you. if you'd like to send the camera into our shop, we'll take a look at it for you and see if there's something we can do to help. I am pretty sure that I understand where the problem is and how to resolve it. Contact me offline at jason@cinemaoxide.com