Tips for Focusing

[AndreasOberg]

Hi guys.

I'm spending a lot of time practicing focusing. Do you guys have any tips for how to become better.
I have the RED 9" Touch Screen right now. I have both Canon lenses and a few Red Primes. It's much easier to focus with the Red Primes and CFF1 follow focus than Canon. My jobs so far are documentaries and commercials. Worst situation i had was hanging backwars from a snow mobile trying to focus on running sleid dogs.

A few thoughts
- should I use the CFF1 with Canon lenses. The main downside is that the setup is less portable and doesn't fit in my backpack. Now I can just take the canon setup into handheld quickly.
- I'm experimenting with using 2 fingers for focusing (70-200) and then 2 other fingers for pulling focus after a zoom. Am I'm doing it right?
- Should I get another screen for another focus puller. So far I have been operating it solo all the time so have no experience with using a focus puller. What screen mode would they use normally?
- Normally I use the F(ocus assist) mode. I never use the edge mode since you don't really see anything on it. What do you guys use?
- If I'm unsure what direction I should focus I begun by verifying by looking outside the screen to measure distance first. Few things are worse than pulling the wrong direction and then changing your mind.
- Can you use the focus modes that the Epic that pulls focus for you.
- Are there any tutorials, lessons etc for this? I guess the real answer is that I need to be taught by someone experienced.

Right now I'm taking time every day to sit and practice, back, forward, back forward etc, seems to help a lot. Anyway any thoughts would be welcome. What tricks do you use?
/Andreas

 

[Jacek Zakowicz]

Pulling focus of still lenses is a lost battle with mechanical follow focus.
The large sensor camera needs constant tiny focus corrections to compensate for the talents small movements and the shallow DOF combination.
This is a fundamental problem with(modern AF) still lenses as the focus rotation is very limited and the precision needed for small focus correction is lost.
Get EFF (redmote pro) and start practicing with that- instantly much better results and you'll be ready for the future as this is the way things are heading in the optics world..

 

[Scott Crawley]

Get EFF (redmote pro) and start practicing with that-

Get a Remote Pro? Where can we get one of those?

 

[David Kuhn]

This is the first time I've seen the Redmote Pro... the only link I found was from 2011. Is it a discontinued product? (doesn't seem to be available on the red site)

 

[Scott Crawley]

Not discontinued... It has yet to come to market AKAIK.

This is the first time I've seen the Redmote Pro... the only link I found was from 2011. Is it a discontinued product? (doesn't seem to be available on the red site)

 

[charles lim yi yong]

lol vapourware

 

[Scott Crawley]

From what we know of its suggested features, Redmote Pro is dependent upon Ultra-low latency wireless video transmission. The Meizler module should enable this, as well as a separate video transmitter, apparently in development. If true, your "vapourware" may not be too terribly far behind.

lol vapourware

 

[Maik Müller]

Looks like Jacek is in a funny mood, the REDMOTE Pro has not been released yet, but there is his own EFF-solution...

I agree, edge mode should really have a different or configurable color, the yellow doesn't stand out enough. My experiences with the assist are mixed too, the enhanced modes aren't always correct (like the green bar is full, but focus is still a bit off). It's a bit like the AF, but helpful to narrow down the focus point.

I think focusing will be a lot easier on the 9"-LCD, maybe its good enough to not having to use 1:1-zoom that often...

 

[Scott Crawley]

Ahh, that is the piece of info I was missing; Jacek has his own coming.

Personally, I find edge mode to be the most useful. While something a little more obvious would be comforting I find it adequate for the way I am currently working, which is fairly restrictive in terms of camera movement:distance to subject.

Looks like Jacek is in a funny mood, the REDMOTE Pro has not been released yet, but there is his own EFF-solution...

I agree, edge mode should really have a different or configurable color, the yellow doesn't stand out enough. My experiences with the assist are mixed too, the enhanced modes aren't always correct (like the green bar is full, but focus is still a bit off). It's a bit like the AF, but helpful to narrow down the focus point.

I think focusing will be a lot easier on the 9"-LCD, maybe its good enough to not having to use 1:1-zoom that often...

 

[AndreasOberg]

Maik
Do you use the 1:1 zoom often? I only use it now in static situations usually when I'm filming scenic background. Characters are moving to much for it to be very useful for me.
And yes I think think the focus mode could be improved. For example having the normal mode and then the "edge" mode as an additive overlay could work really nice.

From my tests with the assists it doesn't seem to be useful at all.
I have only used the 9". I find that I can focus to maybe 90-95% by just looking at the screen.
However I'm still very interested in finding tips on how to focus pull for example moving objects or being able to pull between several different distances etc.
/Andreas

 

[Scott Crawley]

From my tests with the assists it doesn't seem to be useful at all.

Why do you feel it is failing you? Why are you missing critical focus? Do you feel unable to see the focal point adequately, or can you see it enough to know that you are not hitting the mark? If you are unable to hit the mark without hunting, I would suggest that the problem is mechanical and not due to the assist.

 

[Chris McKechnie]

Try SmallHD's AC7 OLED. It has made focusing a breeze.

 

[Jacek Zakowicz]

That's it!!! OLED monitor is the answer!!! :wink5:

 

[Les Dittert]

JaceK : Some detail questions for you,

a> What is your devices minimum step size when focusing ? Another way to put it, on a Canon 17-55 2.8 , how many discrete focus positions will I get when going from close to far ?

b> does it vary per lens? if so do you have a data base of some of the common glass, including Sigma,Tamron, etc.

Thanks for the info!

 

[Jacek Zakowicz]

We use 14 bit encoders.
Lenses are definitely a bottle neck here.
The steps on lenses vary from about 600-800 to about 6000. The L lenses have generally more steps.

 

[Phil Holland]

The only "pure one truth" about pulling focus is do whatever it takes to get the shot.

That said, here's a few thoughts.

Electronic Focus Units

With Jacek's Optitron, Viewfactor's upcoming Origo, and potentially the Redmote Pro you gain electronic focus control over electronic autofocus lenses. The added benefit here is you you don't need any gear based follow focus unit to operate your lens. Also, the biggest advantage behind this tech is being able to expand the often shorter focus throw on still lenses to a more cinema friendly range. Also, a good deal of still lenses have a lot of play in their focus gearing. This solves this. However, as Jacek just mentioned, each lens uses interim steps and they vary between each lens itself. That can effect performance. The future electronic cinema lenses that come out will have "a lot of" steps. Maybe next year on those. Likely closer to two years.


Wireless Follow Focus Units

Allows you to wirelessly control focus via gear operation. Also, some units allow mapping to a more friendly cinema range. Some even have "memory" where you can set 1, 2, or more marks to handle precise speedy moves. The additional benefit of a system like this is elimination of the chance of operator induced vibration.


Mechanical Focus Units

These units vary wildly in performance across different brands and price points. However, solid units such as the CFF-1, FF4/5, etc. provide a solid connection to the lens. They are gear based and often have several available gear sizes to allow for different types of operation. Units like the OFocus sometimes have more still minded gearing, which assists with handling the shorter focus throw of lenses, however does nothing in response to the nasty non-cinema mechanics of the lens.


Lens Choice

As mentioned still lenses have a great deal of issues to combat against. I personally have adapted little lens gears to all my still lenses to allow for mechanical follow focus use. Also mentioned is the chaos that comes from play in the focus movement. However, still lenses themselves suffer from other bad things such as image shift and breathing (if breathing is something you are concerned about). The true allure from electronic control over these lenses is mostly solving the focus issues. Also, it keeps your rig size down, which is nice. Another horribad thing about still lenses is they don't have internal hard stops and tend to rotate forever. Even when using some sort of hard stop on the lens or follow focus there's usually a little play.

Some manufacturers such as Zeiss and Canon have released mechanical lenses based on their still designs with new exterior mechanics and coatings, however, often not solving some of the interior focus traveling mechanics. They do however come in at an impressive price point. One of the big allures of the upcoming Schneider Xenon FF-Primes is that they are competitively priced with the CP.2 and CN-E Primes and have new cinema minded mechanics.

Pure cinema glass is a more sticky environment as different lens sets perform well differently. However, good mechanical cinema lenses have accurate-ish marks, a smooth expanded focus throw, and don't typically suffer from image shift or other badies.


Motors, Electric, Versus Mechanical

One of the clear things that stands out here that isn't talked about much is the very tangible feel you get on proper cinema glass with a good mechanical follow focus unit. It's almost that different you feel if you ever have played with a real tennis racket or played tennis on the Nintendo Wii. Without that very real feedback and touch based communication with your hand, eye, and mind it's just a different experience. Also, there is always a delay when it comes to electronic focusing. High end units have what can be described as a barely perceptual delay. However, there are many units on the market and they do indeed vary wildly in their "feel".


Pulling Focus: Operational Notes

So making marks is one thing. That's fundamental usage. What your start and end on the move? Also, are the extra marks you can add in there to assist with the total pull or extra marks that you need to hit within the shot? Hard stops on follow focus are great for very precise moves, however, soft marks allow for you to adapt for the situation. What if your actress hits mark 2 but leans in a bit? That's the key stuff to pay attention too. Which brings me to a very specific point. You must shoot with an active, engaged, and observational mind. Hitting A to B is one thing. If you are adapting or pulling wildly there's a lot more to pay attention too.

For instance, getting familiar with your actors gait and observing their actions in rehearsals. That gives you useful information. This also can effect camera framing, movement, and operation.

One thing of note is that you can operate a mechanical lens in a variety of ways. Most quality cinema glass you can actually pull on the lens itself without a focus unit. Some operators even add taped marks to the lens to assist with those pulls. Remember that if you do use tape for this wipe the lens down with Pancro. Good ACs treat lenses like murder weapons. Don't leave any traces.

Cinema mechanics allow for one very specific type of operation that's really hard to describe. If you are familiar with the concept of "easing" in animation you can sort of visualize what I'm talking about here. If you have an expanded throw on your cinema lens and you are shooting say a CU on an actor who's moving about 1/2" in and out you can "find" your mark as they go about their performance. Such precision is really, really difficult to pull of with still lenses, electronic controlled or not.

Another thing I've notices is that with the focus gear placement on certain lenses and the type of rod support you have selected makes a difference. It's simple physics, but if your follow focus unit is too far in the front and in general off balance to the center of gravity of your rig it's easier to induce vibration into your shot. This is actually something I'm finding fairly exclusive to shooting high resolution content as you can actually see that stuff when it happens. In fact every bump, twitch, or bend can be seen on a big screen.

Much like the tennis analogy I used above, you can practice and get a feel for mechanical follow focus units and it will always be something different than what you get out of electronic and wireless units. Practicing with your lenses is invaluable.

Mechanical lenses need to be maintained though. Overtime their performance can change, especially if you rent out your gear. Sometimes their focus movement isn't exactly smooth. If that's the case. Bring them to your nearest lens doctor.

I'm not much a scales guys, but using a Cinetape on a well maintained lens can provide big benefits. Especially if you are doing a lot of movement. If you've got your ultra sonic waves pointed at your subject you can tell exactly where they. This is also incredibly useful in a situation when you can't see the scales on the lens, like if you are flying or on a jib.

That all said, we have impressive tools available to us that allow for precise focus control at our fingertips.


In Camera Focus Tools

Getting familiar with your in camera focus tools can make a world of difference. A quick run down.

Magnify - Gives you a 1:1 pixel magnification. In more recent builds you can move your focus target all around the screen. This really is great for locking critical focus and setting marks. Especially if you are attempting a precise move or using motion control.

Focus - Essentially sharpens the regular image out of the camera so perceptually you can feel what's in focus. This is pretty useful when locking focus on things like eyes where there is often a specular highlight informing you on where you want your point of focus to be.

Edge - Provides a color overlay and outlines the edges of your subject. It actually is doing a similar thing to the Focus tool, however, with the added benefit that if you watch your outlined "details" as the highlight gains intensity you are closer to being in focus. Very powerful if used correctly. The only downside is you lose perceptual of what the normal image looks like. However, you can adapt to anything with practice.


Dancing with an AC

Few things have provided me as much joy as working with a good AC. There's something great about being able to communicate with a talented individual who can focus on the focusing while you handle the operational duties. And this is coming from somebody who actually like to self operate. If you have a dolly move with a slight tilt and pan or are even using a gear head to do that a good focus puller is essential. Tricky pulls require a lot of attention sometimes and if you are working all day on a gig it's sometimes nice to hand that duty to another individual.

The flip side of this is that I do enjoy self operating a whole lot and enjoy pulling. I find it's that extra bit of control that I sometimes desire when carving out a frame. I'm realistic though. There's days where I really shouldn't be focused on pulling focus.

 

[Phil Holland]

Monitoring

For any focus critical work you are only as good as what you can see. You can grab focus on the Red 5.0" Touch with no problem. However, I have the 9.0" Touch and SmallHD screens that provide more clarity and detail which assists with critical focus work. So I would describe this as more as an "enhancement tool. I sometimes actually operate with a large HDSDI monitor if I really want to see what I'm doing. Just depends though. For field work, it's field sized monitors. I'm not a big EVF user, but if you are, getting to know those focus tools above helps a whole lot.


Practice Makes Better

The real piece of advice is no matter what focus device you're using you should be practicing with it. I guess that's the other pure truth here. I'm not saying practice makes perfect though. You can miss your mark for many reasons. If you practice a good amount though you will minimize your potential for error a whole ton. I enjoy pulling wild focus now. As long as your mind is fresh and locked in on the task at hand you can really pull off some great work. It's really a combination of using all your techniques and tools you pick up along the way.

I've been shooting for a while now and I still go outside and practice pulls. An even better example is that I purchased a new set of cinema primes recently and I literally spent a week operating and pulling with them just to get familiar with their movement. I don't ever want the glass to feel like it's in the way. That focus action should feel like part of you.

If you ever have the chance and find an old school AC, operator, or DP take them out for a drink and pick their brain. I've done this a few times, shadowed, and worked for some really talented folks along the way. I learned a lot by doing this. There's a lot to learn from other's experience.

Hope that helps.

 

[David Kuhn]

Has anyone looked at the various Still lens AF drives to get an idea which one's have the resolution for fine focus adjustment? I wonder if there's some way to determine that without buying an EFF unit to try out with my lens set (Nikon AF-S Primes and Zooms). I find that unless I'm chasing my subject (rare for what I do), I'm almost always manually focusing - and having finer control over the focus point would be really nice.

Maybe one of you are aware of some (as yet undiscovered by me) mode on the Epic that lets me move the AF by some suitable small increment that I could use to test the lenses?

 

[Les Dittert]

You can set side handle buttons to bump focus towards 'near' and 'far', but I have no idea if that is at the smallest step the lens is capable of.

I am hoping the Dragon hardware update will allow instant 1:1 mode. That will help a lot.

Has anyone looked at the various Still lens AF drives to get an idea which one's have the resolution for fine focus adjustment? I wonder if there's some way to determine that without buying an EFF unit to try out with my lens set (Nikon AF-S Primes and Zooms). I find that unless I'm chasing my subject (rare for what I do), I'm almost always manually focusing - and having finer control over the focus point would be really nice.

Maybe one of you are aware of some (as yet undiscovered by me) mode on the Epic that lets me move the AF by some suitable small increment that I could use to test the lenses?

 

[Maik Müller]

Maik
Do you use the 1:1 zoom often? I only use it now in static situations usually when I'm filming scenic background.

Agreed, it's usage is limited, especially because you can't enable it during recording.
I would love to have a window of the focus area magnified all the time (or as soon as i change focus), but thats not possible with current hardware.

However I'm still very interested in finding tips on how to focus pull for example moving objects or being able to pull between several different distances etc.

Tracking moving objects and working with moving cameras and doing manual focus as single operator is really the hard stuff.
Some more AF-enhancements would be very welcome.

Well, and that REDMOTE PRO!