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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Tiered Partners...

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Jannard

Jannard

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For a long time now, we have talked about ongoing development with regard to R3D support. As all of you know, we have been working very closely with Apple and ASSIMILATE from very early on to develop consistent workflows.

As part of expanding our workflows and our partner base, we are creating a tiered partner program that will roll out in full this year. This program will be how other companies can access R3D as is appropriate for them and for us. The first step is establishing RED Lead Development Partners. Apple and ASSIMLATE are the first and currently the only companies here. We have always said we will open up R3D to other partners, and we will. But we are going to do it right.

Initially, we planned to open R3D around NAB this year. But there are so many upcoming R3D improvements and changes that we need more time. The delay of Build 15, and the subsequent split of the image enhancements into Build 16 have set us back. We can't afford to miss anything, and we need to make sure everything is thoroughly tested throughout the image chain. We also have to insure backwards compatibility with all our apps. I know this delay will be disappointing to some, but it’ll be worth the wait. We are working hard to catch up and open up our community to partners that can deliver bulletproof workflows. To release too early would be catastrophic to all our customers.

Jim

"Always late, but worth the wait"
 
Jannard said:
For a long time now, we have talked about ongoing development with regard to R3D support. As all of you know, we have been working very closely with Apple and ASSIMILATE from very early on to develop consistent workflows.

As part of expanding our workflows and our partner base, we are creating a tiered partner program that will roll out in full this year. This program will be how other companies can access R3D as is appropriate for them and for us. The first step is establishing RED Lead Development Partners. Apple and ASSIMLATE are the first and currently the only companies here. We have always said we will open up R3D to other partners, and we will. But we are going to do it right.

Initially, we planned to open R3D around NAB this year. But there are so many upcoming R3D improvements and changes that we need more time. The delay of Build 15, and the subsequent split of the image enhancements into Build 16 have set us back. We can't afford to miss anything, and we need to make sure everything is thoroughly tested throughout the image chain. We also have to insure backwards compatibility with all our apps. I know this delay will be disappointing to some, but it’ll be worth the wait. We are working hard to catch up and open up our community to partners that can deliver bulletproof workflows. To release too early would be catastrophic to all our customers.

Jim

"Always late, but worth the wait"
Click to expand...

Thanks Jim! Can't wait for Discreet...ah sorry sorry, Autodesk to jump on board!

-Eli
 
Jim,

Don't worry about backwards compatibility right now. Just make it the best you can. That is the whole reason for having limited partners right now. Worry about backwards compatibility when you have everything working how you want it.

Dusty
 
This is just my 2c, but...

As long as todays tools always are available for working with what is shot thus far and you have stated that you're not out of beta untill build 15 (which image-wise is now build 16 and could well be counting), I think you should do whatever you can to make things the best (as if they're not already very good :) )

Again my 2c.
It would humor the PC guys quite a bit to allow for something like the cineform transcode tool in the meantime, as it seems they're having more challenges than tha Mac crowd. I see how this can be complicated and I hear your fears, but as long as they don't have redline/redalert, they're in for a more bumpy ride. Doesn't have to be cineform, if that is an issue, but something conceptually similar.

Cheers!
I'll be shooting soon! :)

Gunleik
 
Jannard said:
But there are so many upcoming R3D improvements and changes that we need more time. The delay of Build 15, and the subsequent split of the image enhancements into Build 16 have set us back. We can't afford to miss anything, and we need to make sure everything is thoroughly tested throughout the image chain. We also have to insure backwards compatibility with all our apps. I know this delay will be disappointing to some, but it’ll be worth the wait. We are working hard to catch up and open up our community to partners that can deliver bulletproof workflows. To release too early would be catastrophic to all our customers.

Jim

"Always late, but worth the wait"
Click to expand...

Maybe it's just me, but I'm not understanding what image enhancements have to do with the .r3d file and other NLE's being able to read them natively. I'm sure that all companies would be willing to work alongside you to ensure that their nle's are compatible with whatever Red is putting out there codec wise, and indeed, you can contractually obligate them to do so.
Also, I'm not sure what backwards compatibility of your apps has to do with software development from other companies moving forward. RC and RA are both version 1, and not bulletproof.
How can you work with new partners to create bulletproof workflows when you aren't opening up to them to start this process? As you know far better than I, it all takes time, and not opening it up to other companies asap seems counter-productive.

This "delay" is disappointing frankly. Revolution is also allowing your codec creation to hit the opensource highway, and let the best app lead the way, and this feels like we'll be driving around a closed circuit for awhile. Don't you want to feel the wind rushing through your hair man? I get the sense that "this year" means late November, not June. Please correct me if I'm wrong. I'm very grateful for the creation of this wonderful camera, but
I'm not really understanding the rationale for this codec decision, and somewhat confused by what you've written by way of explanation.
 
There's most likely much framework and under the hood stuff going on in the codec to implement image enhancements and other new features/enhancements that we don't know about.

I'm just as eager as anyone to get some 3rd party goodness going on here, but I also understand that getting it 'right' before opening up means the difference between having a solid platform to grow on and not being a developer on OS9, only to have to switch a month later to OSX, then another month after that from PPC architecture to Intel chips.

They know the code much more than we could ever guess and we should definitely trust that they want to make 3rd party developers' lives easier, not nightmarish.
 
I agree with Evolve and his arguments.

What this means for me personally is, that I am stuck with Build 13 for the time being - since that is the only build that works with the (now illegal) Cineform command line tool that allows us to use the RED with our existing workflow in an acceptable speed (and equal quality as produced by RedCine and RedAlert).

Don't get me wrong - to have RedCine on the set on my MacBook Pro is golden and it represents a huge value. But our workflow is based on Cineform RAW for specific reasons and is not going to change.
 
means apple...yeah color will be able to do 4k and can read r3d files natively and/...or a redcode 444 will be editable in fcp..something like cineforms 444...hehe
 
So PC platform have to use SCRATCH for 50K+

I am not happy.................

Mean time, can we have REDCINE fixed so it works with NVIDIA 8700 and 8800 please?
 
I was told this would happen by a lot of people on this forum. I kept saying "Jim will keep his word" and so many people said "uh, no he won't".

It will be difficult for me to believe anything RED says again.

I feel bad for those waiting for a solution other than MAC or Scratch.

This is not about what's best for us, the customer, that's for sure. This is about control.

This sucks. Jim, you promised. Spin it however you want.

Forget it, it's not even worth typing about.

Jay
 
It seems to me like this is a positive thing, albeit a drag for some. If they end up sending out all sorts of hackneyed workflow solutions that aren't tightly controlled, it risks making RED look like a joke to all the serious players (both studio, and software developers etc.)

Up till now, these guys have been doing their best to be open about the process, and bring us an amazing product at a price point that most of us can afford. I find it hard to slam them too hard for anything these days. Heck, yesterday we got 120fps, I don't see that on ANY other camera under 100k.

Up till now, they haven't let us down, and almost every decision they've made has been a good one. Hell yes I'm a fan boy, but only because I've shot on the RED, and I'm dying to shoot on it again.

Until they prove to be jackasses, lets trust that these decisions are serving both the company and the end user.
 
It's all a matter of how long it will take.
Until we know better, it's better to trust Red.
Now if you feel you need to know the time it could take, it is a normal thing to ask for some kind of a time frame.

Here's to hoping

Emmanuel
 
Oh, dear. Very very very bad.

This will have -massive- negative impacts on the cameras acceptance and perception in all markets outside of the owners base.

The most important thing now is to give REDCINE an EDL interface -asap- or reds workflow will be stuck in propietary beta, while -every- other camera has functional, full quality, realtime workflow.
 
callan said:
It seems to me like this is a positive thing, albeit a drag for some. If they end up sending out all sorts of hackneyed workflow solutions that aren't tightly controlled, it risks making RED look like a joke to all the serious players (both studio, and software developers etc.)
Click to expand...
Its certainly not positive when red has to delay its planning.
I agree that a instable workflow will scare many players. The problem is: Right now anyone who is not really expert -has- an unstable workflow out of the box.
 
...and now we know why the new firmware has "Encryption of camera LOOK and LOG files."

Jim, if you've gone all Apple on us and locked the doors, please at least remember how much the 'little guys' have contributed to the community.

I hope and expect that once the dust settles you will allow everyone who has something to contribute access to the necessary code, file formats and encryption keys. And not just for those with official or approved projects, but for everybody. You would be shocked and surprised what some of us will come up with, given the keys to do it.

I truly believe open source development is the future and find it sad that you appear to be going the other way. You just might be surprised how much your loyal users could add to the utility and value of your systems at NO expense to your company. Let me restate that: Open sourcing your development gives you features and code for free!

Might I suggest having your official partners and certified software, but also allowing an unsupported open source branch of development?

It won't be much of a revolution if corporate America has all the keys. :-)
 
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